Its Kegging Time - 2024

[Shamus O'Sean]

13 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

I sometimes have a similar method @Shamus O'Sean where I use different PSI at X amount of hours. The only difference is I never purge the keg before returning it to serving pressure. I figure why waste all the gas already in there when it can soak into the beer. Like you mentioned how long at what PSI can depend on when I will be around again to attend to it.

I just worry that leaving the keg at 40psi after the 24 hour period.  28psi of that 40psi gets absorbed into the beer over whatever period.  My concern is if that will over carbonate my brew.  In your experience, that would not seem to be the case.

Plus, after the 24 hours, I often start drinking the keg.  If I have left it at 40psi, it would be a serving nightmare.

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

That is what I usually do and the beer is still flat. Sometimes I put a keg into the keezer and crank the gas up to 40, leave it in there for 24 hours and when I check the next day, it is flat. There is a little bit of fizz but no head to write home about. Give it another 3 days and it is fine. Same when I put a keg into a fridge and hook the workshop gas bottle up, nothing, it is still flat.

Watching HomeBrew Network, he tells you how easy it is, just roll the bottle gently back and forth for a few minutes and shake it every now and then and here you go, he pours a fully carbed beer.  What am I doing wrong? I can't figure it out. Normally, I can wait a few days, no biggie but when I give a keg to the father in law for example, it needs to be fully carbed as he only has a SodaStream bottle with regulator and a pluto gun to serve and he can't carb up a keg with that. But for me to carb up the keg at serving pressure takes forever and occupies valuable kegerator/keezer real estate. It's cool when you rock and roll the keg for a while, then shake the hell out of it. You can hear the gas rushing in and all, it just doesn't seem to go into solution as fast as it should. 

I don't know what you are doing wrong, or if, in fact, you are doing anything wrong.  It is just not working for you.

When you say "Give it another 3 days..." do you mean at 40psi, or set back to serving pressure?  

Have you tried leaving it for longer at 40psi?  Maybe try extra time in 5-6 hour increments until you find a duration that works for you.

[kmar92]

I have used the 40/20 rule quite a few times and it seems to work. So 40psi for 20 hours, depending on the beer it may be slightly undercarbonated but usually drinkable. After the 40/20 and if it is still lacking fizz, I just leave it on serving pressure and within a couple of days it is usually fully carbonated.

@Aussiekraut I have tried the rock and roll method a couple of times, the problem that I then have is opposite to your experience - it usually is overcarbonated.

[iBooz2]

13 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

There is a little bit of fizz but no head to write home about. 

@Aussiekraut, sorry to hear about your beer carb problems.

You have to remember that FIZZ and HEAD are two different issues.  FIZZ is caused / created by the CO embedded in your beer, on the other hand HEAD is caused / created by the recipe itself and then albeit somewhat maintained by the FIZZ part.

I have used 40 psi over 18 hours and my beers have been fine if I want to draw off a few pints in the next day or so but nothing beats having in under 12 - 15 psi for another week after that for a great beer that serves very well from the first pour to the last of the session late in the evening.  See pic below to show how the head is way up over the glass rim and is stiff and stable for nearly the whole drink and causes lots of glass lacing.  Sorry I am on the wrong computer to get the pic I wanted but will post correct one tomorrow.

A good head should be stiff enough to hold itself heads and shoulders way above your glass rim and continue to do that for many minutes after it has been poured.  In fact you should be able to slip your clean finger down into the head foam and lift it up like whipped white egg white.  Not look like dish-washing suds because it has just been poured for the pic.  Big bubbles in the foam are fake foam.

Edited April 23 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:45 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

I have never done the rock and roll method, so I cannot comment on that option.

24 hrs at 40psi works for me.  It is not carbonated like a commercial can, but it produces a head and tastes fizzy.  Once I turn it back to 12psi, it does not seem to get fizzier with time.  You have a similar mini-regulator set-up like me.  Do you make sure the mini-reg is at 40psi?

Although I do not think it has any effect on carbonation, but to be specific, after the 24 hours at 40psi, my process is:

• I disconnect the gas disconnect,
• purge the keg of the 40psi,
• turn off the gas line at the manifold,
• purge the gas line,
• turn back the mini-regulator to effectively zero psi
• turn the gas line back on at the manifold,
• adjust the mini-regulator back up to 12psi (my serving pressure), and
• reconnect the gas disconnect
• proceed to serve thy beer

@Classic Brewing Co's 24-48 on 20psi is plausible, especially if he keeps it at 20psi toward the end of that range.  I do not think the pressure/time ratio is linear, but it is not far off.  Hence why twice as long at half the pressure has a similar effect.  I find the same with my half filled kegs.  So for my half filled kegs, I will sometimes do 40psi for 12 hours or 20psi for 24 hours.  It mostly depends on when I will be around or awake to reset the keg back to serving pressure.

I wish you luck with your attempts at the 24 hour fast carb.

That is ok if you want to serve that beer, right now and today but IMO that is a waste of CO2. 

Just disconnect the gas in connector to the keg and leave it for 24 hours.  The keg pressure will soon come back down to 15 psi or so, then reconnect at your serving pressure, no need to purge the keg unless you want to pour a glass then and there.  Next time just disconnect the gas at 40 psi and connect a spare gas gauge and watch it come down, (presumes 2 C storage here), might take a day or a day and a half for the beer to absorb the extra psi.  Purging just wastes gas and the energy that it has to provide inside the keg for your benefit.   Like working for your boss for 40 hours and then saying "hey boss, just pay me for 25 hours and all will be good".  Nah! you have paid for that gas and the energy it will provide so use it IMO.

Edited April 23 by iBooz2

[RDT2]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:02 AM, Aussiekraut said:

Fast carbing. Why does it not work for me?

I've tried the 24hrs on 40psi method and it still needs 3-4 days on serving pressure. I tried the shake and roll method feeling really stupid rolling a keg back and forth for half an hour, occasionally picking it up and shaking it. When I pour a beer, it is as flat as it was when it went into the keg. Even what came out of the pressure fermenter at 15psi was flat af. However, 5 days on serving pressure does the job just fine. 

What am I doing wrong? I get jealous when I see people messing about for a bit and getting a fully carbonated beer, literally in minutes. 

To what level do you fill your kegs? Could the amount of headspace slow the carbing process?

[Aussiekraut]

11 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I don't know what you are doing wrong, or if, in fact, you are doing anything wrong.  It is just not working for you.

When you say "Give it another 3 days..." do you mean at 40psi, or set back to serving pressure?  

Have you tried leaving it for longer at 40psi?  Maybe try extra time in 5-6 hour increments until you find a duration that works for you.

Yes, an extra 3 days on serving pressure. I think on 40psi, It'd be desasterous  

[Aussiekraut]

7 hours ago, RDT2 said:

To what level do you fill your kegs? Could the amount of headspace slow the carbing process?

Hard to explain. I stop filling the keg when the condensation on the outside of the keg reaches the top where the rubber starts. So it is a little further up as the condensation needs to appear first, which takes a few seconds. 

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

2 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Hard to explain. I stop filling the keg when the condensation on the outside of the keg reaches the top where the rubber starts. So it is a little further up as the condensation needs to appear first, which takes a few seconds. 

That could be the problem that if filled higher than you realize. Maybe try a carbonation lid or gassing through the out post. Or maybe aim for filling it a little less to test the theory of over filling. 

[iBooz2]

11 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

That could be the problem that if filled higher than you realize. Maybe try a carbonation lid or gassing through the out post. Or maybe aim for filling it a little less to test the theory of over filling. 

For the record @Aussiekraut, @RDT2 and @Uhtred Of Beddanburg, I fill my kegs until the condensation level just hits that weld mark around the top of the keg below the black rubber handle molding so about 20 mm below the black rubber bit on a KL sold keg.

Edited April 24 by iBooz2

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

53 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

For the record @Aussiekraut, @RDT2 and @Uhtred Of Beddanburg, I fill my kegs until the condensation level just hits that weld mark around the top of the keg below the black rubber handle molding so about 20 mm below the black rubber bit on a KL sold keg.

So just below what AK is saying he fills to. Interesting topic as not much headspace seems to be a factor. 

I think it was a topic once before head space in keg vs surface area. 

 

I think the head space can be a factor and if AK tries the same thing with a litre less might be surprised.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Kegging Day for the Stout, just sanitising 8 or so 500ml bottles to take up the volume. 

I could have used my 9.5l Corny but I  suppose it will come in handy to have a few bottles on hand, please don't bother to tell me to age them as it won't happen.  

They would be lucky to get to 1-2 months around here.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Kegging Day for the Stout, just sanitising 8 or so 500ml bottles to take up the volume. 

I could have used my 9.5l Corny but I  suppose it will come in handy to have a few bottles on hand, please don't bother to tell me to age them as it won't happen.  

They would be lucky to get to 1-2 months around here.

All kegged & bottled, 8 x 500ml bottles tucked away for a few weeks.....

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

2 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Kegging Day for the Stout, just sanitising 8 or so 500ml bottles to take up the volume. 

I could have used my 9.5l Corny but I  suppose it will come in handy to have a few bottles on hand, please don't bother to tell me to age them as it won't happen.  

They would be lucky to get to 1-2 months around here.

Your sanitiser looks a bit milky.  maybe time to make up a fresh batch.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Your sanitiser looks a bit milky.  maybe time to make up a fresh batch.

Yes, I agree it was tipped after the photo, funnily enough, that batch was prepared a while ago & only used once, maybe twice.

[Shamus O'Sean]

@Aussiekraut, not to rub it in, but to give some evidence.  My latest keg after 24 hours at 40psi.  Poured straight after purging the keg and setting it to serving pressure.  You cannot see it in the photo, but it has good bubbling in the glass, albeit helped by a nucleated glass.  I cannot explain why you do not have the same results doing it.

[Shamus O'Sean]

I kegged my Margarita Lime Gose today using @iBooz2's closed transfer method.

My fermenters had no pressure in them.  My kegs had 15psi of free CO2 in them that I harvested from my previous fermentation.  I just connected a gas to gas jumper from the empty keg to the fermenter so they initially equalised in pressure.  Probably around 10psi.  Then I removed the jumper and released the pressure in the keg, leaving the PRV open as per iBooz2's method.

Going nicely.  About 4 litres transferred quite quickly by this stage.

Oops!  This is something I did not account for.  The siphoning force into the keg is stronger than the ability of the PET keg to keep its shape.  At this stage, about 6.7 litres had transferred and I decided to close the PRV, so the PET did not distort too much more.

The flow began to really slow down to a crawl around 7.3 litres transferred.

Next I connected the gas to gas jumper and, lo and behold, the flow restarted around the normal flow rate for my usual closed transfer.  The pressure initially equalised immediately, but the PET fermenter was still about the same distortion.  By the time the transfer had finished, the PET keg had retained some of its shape, but was still a little distorted.

By the way, the sample tasted amazing.  Quite like a slightly tart lime cordial.  I think this will be great once it is carbonated.

[kmar92]

Poor PET fermenter is not happy, that is crazy how much it distorted

[Shamus O'Sean]

2 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Poor PET fermenter is not happy, that is crazy how much it distorted

Yeah.  Just from what got sucked out through the 6.5mm ID beer line.

[Back Brewing]

4 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I kegged my Margarita Lime Gose today using @iBooz2's closed transfer method.

My fermenters had no pressure in them.  My kegs had 15psi of free CO2 in them that I harvested from my previous fermentation.  I just connected a gas to gas jumper from the empty keg to the fermenter so they initially equalised in pressure.  Probably around 10psi.  Then I removed the jumper and released the pressure in the keg, leaving the PRV open as per iBooz2's method.

Going nicely.  About 4 litres transferred quite quickly by this stage.

Oops!  This is something I did not account for.  The siphoning force into the keg is stronger than the ability of the PET keg to keep its shape.  At this stage, about 6.7 litres had transferred and I decided to close the PRV, so the PET did not distort too much more.

The flow began to really slow down to a crawl around 7.3 litres transferred.

Next I connected the gas to gas jumper and, lo and behold, the flow restarted around the normal flow rate for my usual closed transfer.  The pressure initially equalised immediately, but the PET fermenter was still about the same distortion.  By the time the transfer had finished, the PET keg had retained some of its shape, but was still a little distorted.

By the way, the sample tasted amazing.  Quite like a slightly tart lime cordial.  I think this will be great once it is carbonated.

Just WOW