How much yeast to add to my extract homebrew?

[jennyss]

I have been making Coopers extract homebrews for 18 months now, and always using the yeast sachet under the lid. I am now trying different additions of malt, brew enhancers, and hops. How much 'food' can these under lid yeast sachets handle? When do I need to start thinking about more yeast or different yeast?  (I'm definitely not going down the homegrown yeast path at this stage.) 

[Kegory]

Have you tried any of the ROTMs or recipes from the Recipe section @jennyss? They often have different yeasts.

But, in answer to your question, I have no idea but I'm looking forward to answers from our more experienced friends here.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, jennyss said:

I have been making Coopers extract homebrews for 18 months now, and always using the yeast sachet under the lid. I am now trying different additions of malt, brew enhancers, and hops. How much 'food' can these under lid yeast sachets handle? When do I need to start thinking about more yeast or different yeast?  (I'm definitely not going down the homegrown yeast path at this stage.) 

Jenny If you are brewing Ales I would definitely recommend this one, it is 11gm & a vigorous worker, also delivers nice flavours.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/nottingham-high-performance-ale-yeast/

[ChairmanDrew]

I'm sort of curious about this question as well. Because I see most yeasts for sale come in 11g packs, whereas the standard Coopers are 7g. Are the Coopers just a hungry yeast strand?

[Kegory]

1 hour ago, jennyss said:

How much 'food' can these under lid yeast sachets handle? When do I need to start thinking about more yeast or different yeast?

One thing I have noticed is that the "under lid" yeast satchels are quite small, around 7g. The Nottingham yeast satchel @Classic Brewing Co recommended is 11g.

I am currently fermenting the Autumn Amber Ale, the craft ROTM from a couple of months ago. That recipe uses Coopers English Ale yeast. That's a whopping 15g and the wort was only 8.5L, whereas I've used the 7g "under lid" yeasts in 23L worts. That really took off. Whereas some of the "under lid" yeasts in the big worts didn't produce any visible activity in the first 24 hours or so, this one was well on the way after little more than 12 hours. And instead of the 8-10mm krausen I was used to this one was in the range of 35-40mm after 36 hours.

I still don't have an answer to your question but I've been reading How to Brew by John Palmer. He says that the dried yeasts we are using are very tolerant. He talks about the issues that arise from under or over pitching yeast, but that's liquid yeast. Dried yeast seems to be more of a "she'll be right, mate," from what I can gather. Perhaps the smaller, dried yeast packets just have a longer "growth phase" where the yeast reproduce until there's enough yeast to start fermenting the sugars.

[jennyss]

2 hours ago, Kegory said:

Have you tried any of the ROTMs

@Kegory, my next brew is going to be a Coopers ROTM; Old Town Lager. I have been saving it up till mid winter for the 12-18deg needed for fermentation for the German Lager Yeast; which is a 15g packet (being kept in the frig).

[Kegory]

54 minutes ago, jennyss said:

I have been saving it up till mid winter for the 12-18deg needed for fermentation for the German Lager Yeast

Great minds think alike, @jennyss. July is lager month for me, too.

As soon as a mate of mine gets his new fridge I'm getting his old one. It's perfect for fermenting in. Until then it's brewing to the seasons for me.

[DavidM]

6 hours ago, jennyss said:

I have been making Coopers extract homebrews for 18 months now, and always using the yeast sachet under the lid. I am now trying different additions of malt, brew enhancers, and hops. How much 'food' can these under lid yeast sachets handle? When do I need to start thinking about more yeast or different yeast?  (I'm definitely not going down the homegrown yeast path at this stage.) 

I not experienced enough to answer your question

But I use the can yeast for all my brews, which usually include a bit over a kilo of Malt and a 2-300g malt steep.

I did try other yeast but could not really tell any difference! So back to the can yeast.

As I've said in the past, I'm a Beer Bogan, I can't express in words what I think of a beer, just whether I enjoy it or not.

As my Brews have improved since the last time I tried different yeasts, I will try some different yeasts again soon, to see if I can notice any difference.

Meanwhile, it's Can Yeast for Me.

 

[jennyss]

14 minutes ago, DavidM said:

But I use the can yeast for all my brews, which usually include a bit over a kilo of Malt and a 2-300g malt steep.

So one clue from you DavidM, is that the can yeast copes with a kilo of malt and a 2-300g malt steep on top of the extract, which is at least 300g of yeast food on top of the extract recommended 1kg of Brew enhancer.

I'm also wondering why do you think your brews have improved since you last tried different yeasts?

Edited June 14, 2023 by jennyss

[DavidM]

Just now, jennyss said:

So one clue from you DavidM, is that the can yeast copes with a kilo of malt and a 2-300g malt steep on top of the extract, which is at least 300g of yeast food on top of the extract recommended 1kg of Brew enhancer.

Yes

Some brews have 1.5k of fermentable and I still only use the Can yeast.

I'm sure others will disagree but it works for me.

[Marty_G]

7 hours ago, jennyss said:

I have been making Coopers extract homebrews for 18 months now, and always using the yeast sachet under the lid. I am now trying different additions of malt, brew enhancers, and hops. How much 'food' can these under lid yeast sachets handle? When do I need to start thinking about more yeast or different yeast?  (I'm definitely not going down the homegrown yeast path at this stage.) 

I always advise customers that the 7g sachet is too small.  I recommend a full 11g or 15g packet.   Generally the more yeast the better.   

Edited June 14, 2023 by Marty_G

[Classic Brewing Co]

14 minutes ago, Marty_G said:

I always advise customers that the 7g sachet is too small.  I recommend a full 11g or 15g packet.   Generally the more yeast the better.   

I agree, generally Coopers yeasts are spot on & do the job adequately, but sometimes if you are after a bit of pizazz you need to experiment.

[Oldbloke]

35 years of brewing kits + malt etc. Just can yeast. Very few issues. Keep in mind once it takes off the yeast multiplies/procreates  So, 7g soon becomes 14g, then 28g.

[Shamus O'Sean]

10 hours ago, jennyss said:

I have been making Coopers extract homebrews for 18 months now, and always using the yeast sachet under the lid. I am now trying different additions of malt, brew enhancers, and hops. How much 'food' can these under lid yeast sachets handle? When do I need to start thinking about more yeast or different yeast?  (I'm definitely not going down the homegrown yeast path at this stage.) 

Hi Jenny, Based on your experience the 7g yeasts have been fine for a kit and kilo of fermentables.  My early experience was the same.  Yeast calculators like this one here suggest we should use more.  However, the Coopers' yeasts must be pretty good.

If you start to get above 1.5kg of other fermentables, you should start thinking about using more yeast.  One of the good things about using these commercial yeasts is you end up having a few spare Coopers yeasts.  So when you do a bigger OG beer, you can throw 2 Coopers yeasts at it rather than a fancy expensive yeast.

[Kegory]

I'm back with more information that doesn't answer your question @jennyss.

I was reading How to Brew last night and came to the "problems" section. Of course we aren't talking about a problem except perhaps in trying to avoid one.

Palmer says dried yeast should be rehydrated before pitching into the wort. Just in plain warm water, it doesn't need a sugary starter as it already has enough sugar to get going.

He says this is particularly important in a wort with a high concentration of sugar as the water in the wort is locked up hydrating the sugars in solution. Dry pitching does work but it is not best practice.

It's all very interesting this home brewing caper. It seems very forgiving, you can do all sorts of things "wrong" and still make beer, but finding out the "best" way of doing things is often elusive.

[jennyss]

1 hour ago, Kegory said:

I was reading How to Brew last night and came to the "problems" section.

Thanks @Kegory , I have been able to download a PDF copy of 'How to Brew' by John Palmer. I'm looking forward to reading it; well, dipping in and out of it anyway!

[Kegory]

You're welcome.

Is that the free pdf? If so that's the first edition I think. It's been revised and updated. I have the fourth edition.

Dipping in and out of it is definitely the way to go. A lot of it is way over my head, and much of it doesn't apply to what I'm doing but it's a good reference book and I'm sure I'll keep referring back to it for years to come.

Happy reading.

[Oldbloke]

Well, there you go. 

The Russian Imperial Stout ( 9.2%)  the recipee says.

 

MIX

"Prior to mixing the brew, rehydrate the 3 brew can sachets of yeast by adding to 250ml of tepid water, stir to make a creamy mix, cover with cling-wrap and sit for 15 to 30mins."

 

https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/russian-imperial-stout.html

Edited June 15, 2023 by Oldbloke

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, Oldbloke said:

Well, there you go. 

The Russian Imperial Stout ( 9.2%)  the recipee says.

 

MIX

"Prior to mixing the brew, rehydrate the 3 brew can sachets of yeast by adding to 250ml of tepid water, stir to make a creamy mix, cover with cling-wrap and sit for 15 to 30mins."

 

https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/russian-imperial-stout.html

Yeah.. I'd call that a "Big Beer"

Or a "High Concentration of sugar"

Not my style, I keep my brews between 4.2 and 5%

Each to their Own

[Kegory]

I lack the vigour for Big Beers these days @DavidM, they put me to sleep way too soon.

I used to turn my nose up at "weak" beers but I'm starting to embrace them, as long as they've still got a decent flavour. It means I can enjoy a few more beers without hitting the zzzzz's too soon.

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, 90% of my beer is about 3.5%. But after reading this thread I think in future I will rehydrate my yeast for my stouts that are usually about 6% IIRC.

[jennyss]

Hi @Vincent, I bottle into Coopers PET long necks and condition for a minimum of two weeks and maximum of 8 weeks . Also I'm very relaxed about the sediment in the bottom of my 23L extract brews. It sits quietly at the bottom of the FV while we bottle, and then it goes on the garden. The sediment application hasn't  grown any 'Jack and the Beanstalk' giant plants, or killed any plants. 

Thanks for the info about your yeasts of choice. 

[Kegory]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:44 AM, jennyss said:

Hi @Vincent, I bottle into Coopers PET long necks and condition for a minimum of two weeks and maximum of 8 weeks . Also I'm very relaxed about the sediment in the bottom of my 23L extract brews. It sits quietly at the bottom of the FV while we bottle, and then it goes on the garden. The sediment application hasn't  grown any 'Jack and the Beanstalk' giant plants, or killed any plants. 

Thanks for the info about your yeasts of choice. 

8 weeks of conditioning? I thought I was being daring going out to 3 weeks.

Do you have any data/notes on the effects of different conditioning lengths that you could share?

[Kegory]

After all the yeast management discussion this week I made an impromptu decision that I should hydrate my yeast before pitching.

I ended up pitching it at a few points lower temperature than I would have otherwise. I was concerned that as my wort was warming my hydrated yeast was cooling and I wanted to keep the temperature difference as close to 3 degrees as I could manage.

[kmar92]

1 hour ago, Kegory said:

After all the yeast management discussion this week I made an impromptu decision that I should hydrate my yeast before pitching.

I ended up pitching it at a few points lower temperature than I would have otherwise. I was concerned that as my wort was warming my hydrated yeast was cooling and I wanted to keep the temperature difference as close to 3 degrees as I could manage.

@Kegory Palmer recommends that yeast is pitched at lower temps than the ferment and then allowed to warm up as the ferment progresses. Seems like you did best practice.