Flat beer.

[jackgym]

First 2 bottles of current brew were flat. I've done everything the same as every other time.

They've been a month in the cupboard so wondering what is going on?

If the next 2 are flat tonight I'm gonna try something I read here in the forum.

The information said to undo the bottles and put in another carb drop and recap for a week or so.

What do you think fellers?

 

[Tricky Micky]

JG,

I've just had the same issue. On closer inspection of the PET bottles and the Coopers plazzie lids I suspect the lids have had their day. Warped ever so slightly. I very carefully placed a little sugar in the bottle and replaced the old cap with a newie. So far so good. The bottles are now rock solid. Maybe not what's wrong your end but thought I'd let you know.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Mickep

[jackgym]

2 minutes ago, Mickep said:

JG,

I've just had the same issue. On closer inspection of the PET bottles and the Coopers plazzie lids I suspect the lids have had their day. Warped ever so slightly. I very carefully placed a little sugar in the bottle and replaced the old cap with a newie. So far so good. The bottles are now rock solid. Maybe not what's wrong your end but thought I'd let you know.

Thanks for the info Mickep.

You reminded me that I forgot to mention my bottles are rock hard hard so that adds to the mystery.

Adding more sugar may not work in my case.

[jackgym]

24 minutes ago, jackgym said:

First 2 bottles of current brew were flat. I've done everything the same as every other time.

They've been a month in the cupboard so wondering what is going on?

If the next 2 are flat tonight I'm gonna try something I read here in the forum.

The information said to undo the bottles and put in another carb drop and recap for a week or so.

What do you think fellers?

 

Forgot to mention that the bottles are rock hard, so adding sugar may not work?

[Pickles Jones]

7 minutes ago, jackgym said:

Forgot to mention that the bottles are rock hard, so adding sugar may not work?

It's strange if the bottles are rock hard however repriming and putting on new caps is still worth ago.

I would try three carb drops in one of the two flat bottles and two in the other along with new caps for comparison.

[Classic Brewing Co]

34 minutes ago, Mickep said:

JG,

I've just had the same issue. On closer inspection of the PET bottles and the Coopers plazzie lids I suspect the lids have had their day. Warped ever so slightly. I very carefully placed a little sugar in the bottle and replaced the old cap with a newie. So far so good. The bottles are now rock solid. Maybe not what's wrong your end but thought I'd let you know.

I assume you chaps removed the plastic ring around the rim of the bottles before filling & replacing old caps. I am sure you did but for the benefit of those that perhaps don't know, it prohibits the cap from making a tight seal.

If your bottles are rock hard after 2 weeks your are in business. If you used 2 carb drops in a 740ml PET bottle you wouldn't need anymore. 

[jackgym]

6 minutes ago, CLASSIC said:

I assume you chaps removed the plastic ring around the rim of the bottles before filling & replacing old caps. I am sure you did but for the benefit of those that perhaps don't know, it prohibits the cap from making a tight seal.

If your bottles are rock hard after 2 weeks your are in business. If you used 2 carb drops in a 740ml PET bottle you wouldn't need anymore. 

Yes I removed the plastic ring.

Just hoping the rest are okay.

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 minutes ago, jackgym said:

Yes I removed the plastic ring.

Just hoping the rest are okay.

 

I would try moving the contents around in the bottle ( not shaking ) & invert them for a few days & return them upright for the same period & see if they are hard, it has worked for me in the past even with glass, but that was early days when I wasn't using LME & other adjuncts.

Cheers

Phil

[jackgym]

The soup thickens.

There's been a stay of execution. 

I tried a couple more bottles and they've produced a good head.

It's funny that the first few in a row were flat (although they were all rock hard).

What I did notice was the flat ones didn't have a white ring around the top.

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, jackgym said:

The soup thickens.

There's been a stay of execution. 

I tried a couple more bottles and they've produced a good head.

It's funny that the first few in a row were flat (although they were all rock hard).

What I did notice was the flat ones didn't have a white ring around the top.

 

Have you checked the bottom of your PET bottles after 14 days carbonating ? You should have solid yeast deposits in the specially designed bottles.

Cheers

Phil

[jackgym]

10 minutes ago, CLASSIC said:

Have you checked the bottom of your PET bottles after 14 days carbonating ? You should have solid yeast deposits in the specially designed bottles.

Cheers

Phil

Yes. Come to think of it, the flat ones had hardly any when I washed them.

[ozdevil]

if i was to bottle condition 

i would  normally batch prime and not use carb drops

i would every couple of days give a gentle shake to help what co2 has formed be asorbed into the wort

Now some will disagree on what i have said, but thats how i have done it in the past

even if you use carb drops a gentle shake every couple of days will help the drop to dissolve and mix with the brew

[jackgym]

8 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

if i was to bottle condition 

i would  normally batch prime and not use carb drops

i would every couple of days give a gentle shake to help what co2 has formed be asorbed into the wort

Now some will disagree on what i have said, but thats how i have done it in the past

even if you use carb drops a gentle shake every couple of days will help the drop to dissolve and mix with the brew

"I'm shakin' it, Boss". Cool Hand Luke 

I think that's sound advice, Oz. Thanks.

[iBooz2]

Blaming the tamper proof ring (if that is what it is called) is a furphy.  On all my PET bottles once opened and emptied for the first time, thoroughly cleaned and re-filled using the same Coopers caps (or caps from the same batches of bottles) they always reseal correctly with the ring still on.

The cap when tightened properly never comes near enough to the ring that remains on the bottle to interfere with a good seal.  Hence the furphy / old wives’ tale / or myth, of “must cut the ring off”.

To prove this again to myself last night, with the aid of some multi-grips, just did up an old cap on an empty PET bottle that still had that ring attached.  Did this as tight as I could (without destroying the cap or bottle) and I can still spin that suspect ring around with my fingers.  Maybe 0.5 mm clearance or more between the cap and the ring so the ring is not your problem (if using the Coopers PET bottles and using the supplied Coopers PET lids).  Cutting it off will make JS difference.

If using a different brand of PET bottles and or caps, it may be different spacing to above.

The problem with flat beer in these balloons err I mean PET bottles maybe because of: -

A.      Not enough viable yeast to finish off or complete the necessary secondary ferment.

B.      Not enough priming sugar to feed the secondary ferment for the time required.

C.      Not enough of the right temperature range to induce the yeast to secondary ferment properly.

Some of or all the above.   It is not the ring that is causing it.

Edited June 19, 2021 by iBooz2

[Tricky Micky]

13 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Blaming the tamper proof ring (if that is what it is called) is a furphy.  On all my PET bottles once opened and emptied for the first time, thoroughly cleaned and re-filled using the same Coopers caps (or caps from the same batches of bottles) they always reseal correctly with the ring still on.

The cap when tightened properly never comes near enough to the ring that remains on the bottle to interfere with a good seal.  Hence the furphy / old wives’ tale / or myth, of “must cut the ring off”.

To prove this again to myself last night, with the aid of some multi-grips, just did up an old cap on an empty PET bottle that still had that ring attached.  Did this as tight as I could (without destroying the cap or bottle) and I can still spin that suspect ring around with my fingers.  Maybe 0.5 mm clearance or more between the cap and the ring so the ring is not your problem (if using the Coopers PET bottles and using the supplied Coopers PET lids).  Cutting it off will make JS difference.

If using a different brand of PET bottles and or caps, it may be different spacing to above.

The problem with flat beer in these balloons err I mean PET bottles maybe because of: -

A.      Not enough viable yeast to finish off or complete the necessary secondary ferment.

B.      Not enough priming sugar to feed the secondary ferment for the time required.

C.      Not enough of the right temperature range to induce the yeast to secondary ferment properly.

Some of or all the above.   It is not the ring that is causing it.

Ah not quite so quick there Boozer. I've just had two bottle caps do this exact thing. Didn't take a pic so I can't show it to you but it was quite evident that the cap had warped/twisted itself  from being too close to the bottom ring. I'm calling a fault with the cap at this stage. Anyway the result was flat beer. Put a new cap on with a little sugar added to the brew and presto fixed. I'm using Coopers PET's too. 

[iBooz2]

4 minutes ago, Mickep said:

Ah not quite so quick there Boozer. I've just had two bottle caps do this exact thing. Didn't take a pic so I can't show it to you but it was quite evident that the cap had warped/twisted itself  from being too close to the bottom ring. I'm calling a fault with the cap at this stage. Anyway the result was flat beer. Put a new cap on with a little sugar added to the brew and presto fixed. I'm using Coopers PET's too. 

All good Mick.  Maybe yours was accidental cross threaded / done up too tightly or you could have been unlucky with some dodgy threaded caps.  I run 270 Coopers PET's and cycled through most of them about 2 - 3 times.  I use some of these for my home made ginger beer as well.

Never had the ring interfere on any of mine.

[Popo the Reprobate]

I'd guess it's temperature. Mine always took longer than I thought they'd take in the cooler months. They'd be a bit inconsistent too.

[Classic Brewing Co]

27 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

All good Mick.  Maybe yours was accidental cross threaded / done up too tightly or you could have been unlucky with some dodgy threaded caps.  I run 270 Coopers PET's and cycled through most of them about 2 - 3 times.  I use some of these for my home made ginger beer as well.

Never had the ring interfere on any of mine.

While I agree with you @iBooz2 I have had several that just would not seal with the ring so I removed them, I continue to do this just to save time for future bottling episodes.

[iBooz2]

5 minutes ago, CLASSIC said:

While I agree with you @iBooz2 I have had several that just would not seal with the ring so I removed them, I continue to do this just to save time for future bottling episodes.

And its hard to get a new unused cap onto a bottle that still has the ring on the neck.  Caught me out once when I sanitised all new caps on bottling day only to find I needed to put them on pre-used bottles.  Quickly pulled the ring off the new caps and finished the job off.  I was just pointing out my experiences with those rings.  So far so good as they say.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

And its hard to get a new unused cap onto a bottle that still has the ring on the neck.  Caught me out once when I sanitised all new caps on bottling day only to find I needed to put them on pre-used bottles.  Quickly pulled the ring off the new caps and finished the job off.  I was just pointing out my experiences with those rings.  So far so good as they say.

All Good 

[Barramullafella]

I am happy I have had no issues with leaving the 'ring' on the PET and just screwing the used lid in place.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Barramullafella said:

I am happy I have had no issues with leaving the 'ring' on the PET and just screwing the used lid in place.

I was talking earlier about putting a brand new PET Cap on the bottle with the ring still in place from an older cap, however that would really only occur if you had chucked some old caps & used new ones. If I didn't make that clear enough, apologies. 

Cheers

Phil

[Barramullafella]

Just now, CLASSIC said:

I was talking earlier about putting a brand new PET Cap on the bottle with the ring still in place from an older cap, however that would really only occur if you had chucked some old caps & used new ones. If I didn't make that clear enough, apologies. 

Cheers

Phil

You were clear with comments Classic and I know what you were meaning. I was just giving my history with using caps with rings still in place. Cheers.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, Barramullafella said:

You were clear with comments Classic and I know what you were meaning. I was just giving my history with using caps with rings still in place. Cheers.

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, jackgym said:

Yes. Come to think of it, the flat ones had hardly any when I washed them.

With my fining and cold crashing regime my bottles barely have a dusting of yeast at the bottom.  However, they still carb up fine.  Carbonation can sometimes be a confounding issue.