Flat beer.

[jackgym]

10 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

With my fining and cold crashing regime my bottles barely have a dusting of yeast at the bottom.  However, they still carb up fine.  Carbonation can sometimes be a confounding issue.

You're not wrong there. It's the first time this has happened in 3-4 years so I suppose I should be thankful.

[Tricky Micky]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:49 PM, iBooz2 said:

All good Mick.  Maybe yours was accidental cross threaded / done up too tightly or you could have been unlucky with some dodgy threaded caps.  I run 270 Coopers PET's and cycled through most of them about 2 - 3 times.  I use some of these for my home made ginger beer as well.

Never had the ring interfere on any of mine.

Yeah Boozer, I may have tightened the daylights outta the poor cap. It didn't seem cross threaded though. Might be the bottle too who knows.

[BlackSands]

For what it's worth I've thrown out quite a few PET bottles over the years - ones that have been used countless times. It was the threads on the bottles that had in the end become distorted/damaged resulting in leaks.  The lids meanwhile seemed perfectly fine when reused.   The PET brand I have is Mangrove Jacks.

Edited June 21, 2021 by BlackSands

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

 The PET brand I have is Mangrove Jacks.

No offence intended @BlackSands I guess it seems appropriate to support local being a NZ brand, we can get those at different LHBS here also, slightly darker colour, sometimes I use Morgan's as well, they are actually the full Monty 750ml. I had to chuck the odd one due to threads over the years.

[Space]

I made my first stout and I I bottle primed them instead of bulk priming and I regret it now.  I used dark brown sugar and I think it just fell down to the bottom of the bottles in a lump and stayed there.  There is very little fizz and very little head.

I have just tried repriming some with drops and I've discovered that even relatively flat beer does the Coke+Mentos=Vesuvius thing.  I've managed to get 6 reprimed, some with one drop and some with two drops and will see what this does over the next two weeks, although half of thes bottles are now missing a half to one inch of stout which is now all over my desk and clothes.

Is there an easier, less messy way to reprime bottles?

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, Space said:

I made my first stout and I I bottle primed them instead of bulk priming and I regret it now.  I used dark brown sugar and I think it just fell down to the bottom of the bottles in a lump and stayed there.  There is very little fizz and very little head.

I have just tried repriming some with drops and I've discovered that even relatively flat beer does the Coke+Mentos=Vesuvius thing.  I've managed to get 6 reprimed, some with one drop and some with two drops and will see what this does over the next two weeks, although half of thes bottles are now missing a half to one inch of stout which is now all over my desk and clothes.

Is there an easier, less messy way to reprime bottles?

I have been bottling for years & I have never had a problem using just plain white sugar. I used Carbonation Drops for a while but found them to be inconsistent & too expensive.

I bulk primed once & will never do it again, for what it is worth I always place the required measure of sugar in each bottle before filling & find this method the best. I use Coopers Lonknecks mainly & I have 450ml Grolsch & 500ml Hef'e bottles & they all get the same measure, 1 large scoop with the sugar measure. Sometimes depending on the brews especially with extra malt additions I cut back the sugar slightly in the smaller bottles.

[Space]

I've not had an issue with white sugar, although I still think I get more consistant results with bulk priming while decating into a second FV.   With bulk priming it's a lot easier to use  other sugars, like sticky dark sugar.  I might even try honey or treacle next.  

[Pints]

22 minutes ago, Space said:

I've not had an issue with white sugar, although I still think I get more consistant results with bulk priming while decating into a second FV.   With bulk priming it's a lot easier to use  other sugars, like sticky dark sugar.  I might even try honey or treacle next.  

I bulk prime between 150 and 170g Dextrose depending on style with success

[Classic Brewing Co]

22 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I have been bottling for years & I have never had a problem using just plain white sugar. I used Carbonation Drops for a while but found them to be inconsistent & too expensive.

I bulk primed once & will never do it again, for what it is worth I always place the required measure of sugar in each bottle before filling & find this method the best. I use Coopers Lonknecks mainly & I have 450ml Grolsch & 500ml Hef'e bottles & they all get the same measure, 1 large scoop with the sugar measure. Sometimes depending on the brews especially with extra malt additions I cut back the sugar slightly in the smaller bottles.

Side Note: now that I am moving into kegging, the amount of beer I put in bottles will be drastically reduced so I get to save on sugar 

[Oldbloke]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:22 PM, iBooz2 said:

 

The problem with flat beer in these balloons err I mean PET bottles maybe because of: -

A.      Not enough viable yeast to finish off or complete the necessary secondary ferment.

B.      Not enough priming sugar to feed the secondary ferment for the time required.

C.      Not enough of the right temperature range to induce the yeast to secondary ferment properly.

Some of or all the above.   It is not the ring that is causing it.

Old thread.  But...

Agree. Since it was June low temperature is the likely culprit.  

[Shamus O'Sean]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:14 AM, Space said:

I made my first stout and I I bottle primed them instead of bulk priming and I regret it now.  I used dark brown sugar and I think it just fell down to the bottom of the bottles in a lump and stayed there.  There is very little fizz and very little head.

I have just tried repriming some with drops and I've discovered that even relatively flat beer does the Coke+Mentos=Vesuvius thing.  I've managed to get 6 reprimed, some with one drop and some with two drops and will see what this does over the next two weeks, although half of thes bottles are now missing a half to one inch of stout which is now all over my desk and clothes.

Is there an easier, less messy way to reprime bottles?

The yeast will still get to the lump of sugar on the bottom of the bottles.

Maybe a measure of brown sugar is not the same weight as the same measure of white sugar?

As @oldbloke says, maybe the bottles needed longer at this time of year.

It might help if you put the bottles in the fridge before repriming.  Cooler beer froths up less. 

Although the beer might be flat, it will still contain plenty of dissolved CO2.  Even the smooth surface of carbonation drops will be nucleation points for the CO2 to be released.  Hence the Vesuvius action. 

I would store the bottles with 2 drops separately and somewhere safe in case they become bottle bombs.  You should be okay.  However, 2 drops plus the measure of brown sugar already in the bottle will be pretty fizzy.

[Space]

All my brews get a condition at whatever temperature my FV is at (18c?) because I stack the bottles around the it after I make the next brew.  I figure the best temperature for a secondary fermentation must be the same as the primary, right?

[Oldbloke]

23 hours ago, Space said:

All my brews get a condition at whatever temperature my FV is at (18c?) because I stack the bottles around the it after I make the next brew.  I figure the best temperature for a secondary fermentation must be the same as the primary, right?

That's logical and likely correct. But I've never stressed about it. Anything from 17c to 25c for a few days will do the trick.

[DavidM]

Winter south of Adelaide, my storage area temperature has dropped to 15-16 overnight and 17-18 during the day.

I've had to put a heater on, picked the temp up to 19 deg. Think I'll leave it running for the next few months (Oil heater on a thermostat).

My current brew pours well, good head but doesn't have much bubble, hopping the extra few deg's will fix the next one.

[Classic Brewing Co]

28 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Winter south of Adelaide, my storage area temperature has dropped to 15-16 overnight and 17-18 during the day.

I've had to put a heater on, picked the temp up to 19 deg. Think I'll leave it running for the next few months (Oil heater on a thermostat).

My current brew pours well, good head but doesn't have much bubble, hopping the extra few deg's will fix the next one.

I think it's going to be a long cold winter, it's only 8c ATM here in Glenelg  my internal temp ( brew room ) has FV's sitting on 22c but the double brick & insulation make that possible.

With the power prices soaring I am trying to keep heater use to a minimum but it's a bit hard. A bit early for a Port !!

[Oldbloke]

Why keep a whole room warm. Stick them on a box with a 25w incandescent light globe for 4 days. Use a timer or thermostat if you want. Job done.  15w is probably enough.

[DavidM]

6 hours ago, oldbloke said:

Why keep a whole room warm. Stick them on a box with a 25w incandescent light globe for 4 days. Use a timer or thermostat if you want. Job done.  15w is probably enough.

Yes, that was my first option, have a globe with a Can over it sitting in the cupboard but it's not warm enough.

Might also be that I'm trying to warm too many bottles! Between the Wife and I we probably have over 360 bottles ageing.

Big cupboard.. when full it holds 12 brews at roughly 30 a brew (I should fill it tomorrow). It's also a very small room.

Solar for the day time, it's not costing much.

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Yes, that was my first option, have a globe with a Can over it sitting in the cupboard but it's not warm enough.

Might also be that I'm trying to warm too many bottles! Between the Wife and I we probably have over 360 bottles ageing.

Big cupboard.. when full it holds 12 brews at roughly 30 a brew (I should fill it tomorrow). It's also a very small room.

Solar for the day time, it's not costing much.

Hey David, it's really simple - you drink too much 

I pack mine in boxes & stack them until they are ready to drink, never had a problem or had to use globes or heaters.

[DavidM]

4 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Hey David, it's really simple - you drink too much 

I pack mine in boxes & stack them until they are ready to drink, never had a problem or had to use globes or heaters.

Guarantee.. that is correct, I/we (Wife) drink too much but it is so nice sitting out front in the sun sucking on great beers...

[DavidM]

7 hours ago, oldbloke said:

 Stick them on a box with a 25w incandescent light globe for 4 days. 

Ok, I just reread that and missed this the first time!

That might work for me, keep the freshly bottled brew a bit warmer for 4 days, then store them in the cupboard.

Get the Carbonation going early, then sit and wait till I'm ready to drink.

[Classic Brewing Co]

18 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Guarantee.. that is correct, I/we (Wife) drink too much but it is so nice sitting out front in the sun sucking on great beers...

I guarantee most people on this forum drink too much including myself but it's really only a social drink. 

If they remain at a constant temperature when bottled you don't need to muck around around adjusting anything just leave them, they will be fine.

[jackgym]

I've had to cover my baby with a blanket while it ferments out.

Blast of polar weather from Victoria has hit us on the Sunshine Coast. 

[Oldbloke]

23 hours ago, DavidM said:

Yes, that was my first option, have a globe with a Can over it sitting in the cupboard but it's not warm enough.

Might also be that I'm trying to warm too many bottles! Between the Wife and I we probably have over 360 bottles ageing.

Big cupboard.. when full it holds 12 brews at roughly 30 a brew (I should fill it tomorrow). It's also a very small room.

Solar for the day time, it's not costing much.

Why a can over the globe?

[DavidM]

58 minutes ago, oldbloke said:

Why a can over the globe?

Keeps the light restricted, keeps the beer in the dark.

Can heats up, adding more heating, or at least that was what I thought.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

Keeps the light restricted, keeps the beer in the dark.

Can heats up, adding more heating, or at least that was what I thought.

In all my years of brewing/bottling I have never had to add any heat source to the storage scenario, I find the cartons that you get with 1 dozen bottles of wine from wine clubs/membership etc are perfect for storing bottles, one would assume the temperature would remain constantly the same as the ambient temp in the room.

In fact I would stick my neck out & suggest flat beer comes from poor brewing techniques & not enough malt or attention to the recipe or perhaps under carbonation.

All you have to do is visit your local bottle O' & ask if you can have some, see photo below, you can of course cover/insulate the boxes with blankets if you want.

I currently have 10 x cartons of assorted beers stored in this way & I can assure you - none of them are flat.

Otherwise get into kegging.