Bottle conditioning time

[K Man]

Hi Everyone,

Most of the recipes I have read recommend condioning your bottled beer in a dark cool space for 14 days. 

Does extending this time improve the final product?

If you are extending the conditioning time should you add less carbonation drops?

Thanks

 

[Malter White]

More conditioning time will improve your beers and you can reduce priming sugar if you plan to condition for extended periods, say 6 months or longer, but if you plan to drink them within a few months it's probably best to stick to prescribed priming rates.

[BlackSands]

20 hours ago, K Man said:

Does extending this time improve the final product?

Depends on the beers style I reckon.  Hoppier beers are definitely better consumed young, particularly if they are dry-hopped.  I always experience what is known as "hop fade" in my bottled beers and noted that after just 2 weeks much of the flavour/aroma benefits of any dry-hopping was almost completely lost.   Other styles however, particularly the darker beers, definitely improve with age. 

[Marvin]

On 2/26/2021 at 7:03 PM, MUZZY said:

More conditioning time will improve your beers and you can reduce priming sugar if you plan to condition for extended periods, say 6 months or longer, but if you plan to drink them within a few months it's probably best to stick to prescribed priming rates.

This has nothing to do bottle conditioning.

Quote

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Sunday 28th February at 11:00 am (110 minutes)

When the Town & District Bus Company finds itself short-staffed they decide to employ female drivers. The bus crews, led by Stan and Jack are horrified. (Reg Varney, Bob Grant, Doris Hare)

Actors/Presenters: Reg Varney, Doris Hare, Anna Karen, Michael Robbins, Stephen Lewis, Bob Grant

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(Classification)

 

[Malter White]

@Marvin I'd love to be watching it too but unfortunately I'll be ON THE BUSES very shortly.

[Journeyman]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:52 PM, K Man said:

Most of the recipes I have read recommend condioning your bottled beer in a dark cool space for 14 days

When it says 'cool' you need it to be at the ferment temp for the yeast. I think even the lager guys here bring it up to around 18° for conditioning. If it's too cool the carbing takes quite a lot longer.

I leave my beers for extended 'conditioning' periods even in kegs. Mind you I haven't dry hopped for quite some time - I do teas and if there is hops fade it seems minor. The beers definitely improve and mature with some extra time, so if you're high on hoppy beers, you'll be trading quality of beer against hops flavour.

[Tricky Micky]

8 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

When it says 'cool' you need it to be at the ferment temp for the yeast. I think even the lager guys here bring it up to around 18° for conditioning. If it's too cool the carbing takes quite a lot longer.

I leave my beers for extended 'conditioning' periods even in kegs. Mind you I haven't dry hopped for quite some time - I do teas and if there is hops fade it seems minor. The beers definitely improve and mature with some extra time, so if you're high on hoppy beers, you'll be trading quality of beer against hops flavour.

Hey JM, yeah I rasie the temp of my lagers to 18 degC for at least 3 days just before FG is reached.  In the cooler months I'd noticed it might take the lagers twice the length of time to carb up. I only use ambient temps for the second ferment. I'd normally not touch the lagers for at least 3 weeks before I'll have  taste.

You wrote:

"Mind you I haven't dry hopped for quite some time - I do teas and if there is hops fade it seems minor."

I've only just started doing dry hops and I'm loving it so far but would a steep in water at say something like 70 degrees and added to the FV while mixing produce something similar? I'm def not a fan of further bittering of the Coopers kit tin. I do like the subtle addition of late hops though. I've experimented with different temps with the water when adding hops and I have to say I'm a fan of the lower temp water when adding hops. It seems at least to my taste be a far more subtle addition without any bitterness.

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, Mickep said:

Hey JM, yeah I rasie the temp of my lagers to 18 degC for at least 3 days just before FG is reached.  In the cooler months I'd noticed it might take the lagers twice the length of time to carb up. I only use ambient temps for the second ferment. I'd normally not touch the lagers for at least 3 weeks before I'll have  taste.

You wrote:

"Mind you I haven't dry hopped for quite some time - I do teas and if there is hops fade it seems minor."

I've only just started doing dry hops and I'm loving it so far but would a steep in water at say something like 70 degrees and added to the FV while mixing produce something similar? I'm def not a fan of further bittering of the Coopers kit tin. I do like the subtle addition of late hops though. I've experimented with different temps with the water when adding hops and I have to say I'm a fan of the lower temp water when adding hops. It seems at least to my taste be a far more subtle addition without any bitterness.

The 18 should be for the time to carb up, i.e. approx 2 weeks.

I normally do hops in a coffee plunger in water about 85° and let it sit for 20 mins of so then it goes in just before the yeast - stirred in so I'm not risking killing yeast with hot liquid.

Recently I tried adding the tea just prior to kegging - I quite like that and will do it again. I find the tea reduces the in-your-face hops smack but still provides some flavour and aroma. The late addition one gave a nice smooth hops taste to the brews after a week when I tried them and that only improved after 2 weeks.

[pilotsh]

I found beers that I tasted at 2 weeks were still a little “green”, so now I use 4 weeks for my bottles. But it’s subjective because I could not taste the two at the same time. Some recipes that mention a long storage time suggest using one carb drop instead of two, but I would just stick to two for ease. As long as fermentation is complete when you bottle, 8g/Lt  (two carb drops per 740ml PET) seems like a workable priming rate.

[Pickles Jones]

2 hours ago, pilotsh said:

I found beers that I tasted at 2 weeks were still a little “green”, so now I use 4 weeks for my bottles. But it’s subjective because I could not taste the two at the same time. Some recipes that mention a long storage time suggest using one carb drop instead of two, but I would just stick to two for ease. As long as fermentation is complete when you bottle, 8g/Lt  (two carb drops per 740ml PET) seems like a workable priming rate.

After much trial and much error I now use a minimum of two weeks or longer in the FV and four weeks in the bottle for conditioning, longer for most. 

I have had mixed carbonation results over my bottled brew,  but since moving to Grolsch swing tops and using two carbonation drops per bottle I have found that I have had a positive variation in the level of carbonation depending on what brew is in the bottle.

Some to much but most just about right and directly related to the serving temperature.

I think that the only way to get a consistent carbonation is by kegging where you have direct control over the carbonation. Not that I have kegged so far.

[Barramullafella]

I have a Coopers Lager + BE1 PET bottled batch [or part of] sitting here at an average 28-30 deg C.  I opened a test bottle 1 week after conditioning and was green but okay. Week 2 was not to bad and I was surprised it tasted good but had that HB yeast smell. Week 3 I was very impressed and reckon the that HB smell had all but gone and the body and flavour of the beer was very good. Week 4 was yesterday and I cracked another from that batch [only 15 bottles left  ] and it was so nice tasting [little head in glass - probably accidentally washed with dishwasher liquid] I think I had movement. Today is my day off so I think that 15 bottles left will be reduced a bit by the night. Cheers. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Barramullafella

[Journeyman]

6 minutes ago, Barramullafella said:

Week 2 was not to bad and I was surprised it tasted good but had that HB yeast smell. Week 3 I was very impressed and reckon the that HB smell had all but gone and the body and flavour of the beer was very good.

I have to wonder what the taste buds are like of those who brew, stick their beer in a keg and carb it in minutes (or even overnight) and then drink and claim it is so good.

With the exception of trying to make sure you get the best of a dry hops, in which case maybe the hops is covering the young beer taste, the longer you can leave the beer to condition (not the same thing as carb) the better.

Up to a limit of course, which depends on what beer it is and to a lesser amount, what the container is and how stored.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Journeyman

[kmar92]

3 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I have to wonder what the taste buds are like of those who brew, stick their beer in a keg and carb it in minutes (or even overnight) and then drink and claim it is so good.

With the exception of trying to make sure you get the best of a dry hops, in which case maybe the hops is covering the young beer taste, the longer you can leave the beer to condition (not the same thing as carb) the better.

Up to a limit of course, which depends on what beer it is and to a lesser amount, what the container is and how stored.

To a certain extent I would agree with you, however I find that beer conditions at a much faster rate in a keg as opposed to in a bottle. I have no idea why but perhaps it is to do with the volume keg to bottle?

[K Man]

30 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

To a certain extent I would agree with you, however I find that beer conditions at a much faster rate in a keg as opposed to in a bottle. I have no idea why but perhaps it is to do with the volume keg to bottle?

Does it condition faster in a keg because it's under higher pressure? 

[Journeyman]

1 hour ago, kmar92 said:

To a certain extent I would agree with you, however I find that beer conditions at a much faster rate in a keg as opposed to in a bottle. I have no idea why but perhaps it is to do with the volume keg to bottle?

 

56 minutes ago, K Man said:

Does it condition faster in a keg because it's under higher pressure? 

I think it might be that bottles get sugar and yeast so have to go through a ferment process again. Kegs are just beer waiting to be good.  

[LRWOZ]

Been reading… did my first Coopers kit with the included lager and BE1  (been doing grain small batch in a 5l carboy for a few years).  OG 1.040, FG 1.010..  bottle in the included 750ml PET instead of glass with crowns.  Used the 2 carbonation tabs per 740/750ml PET… and here was my progression.…

bottles up fine.  At 1 week of conditioning .. tasted very green, cidery.  Week 2  much better but a bit tart, week 3 - damn near drinkable.  So by week 4 onward I reckon will be good to go… EXCEPT ONE SMALL THING…..

Carbonation is way off.  Barely there. Short of using  third tab next time, any ideas?  
 

Have just bottled up a Smooth Bitter with Crystal Malt, molasses and dry hopped with Fuggles and hopefully won’t have the same issue.

 

[jamiek86]

@LRWOZ I agree 2 carb drops are pitiful in a tallie people are using 2 in 500 swing tops I assume if consumed young 3 would be ok. Or just get a sugar scoop and slightly heap it. Sugar is better than dextrose for carbing and the drops are just dextrose balls.

[Pickles Jones]

30 minutes ago, LRWOZ said:

Been reading… did my first Coopers kit with the included lager and BE1  (been doing grain small batch in a 5l carboy for a few years).  OG 1.040, FG 1.010..  bottle in the included 750ml PET instead of glass with crowns.  Used the 2 carbonation tabs per 740/750ml PET… and here was my progression.…

bottles up fine.  At 1 week of conditioning .. tasted very green, cidery.  Week 2  much better but a bit tart, week 3 - damn near drinkable.  So by week 4 onward I reckon will be good to go… EXCEPT ONE SMALL THING…..

Carbonation is way off.  Barely there. Short of using  third tab next time, any ideas?  
 

Have just bottled up a Smooth Bitter with Crystal Malt, molasses and dry hopped with Fuggles and hopefully won’t have the same issue.

 

When carbonation is discussed, or the lack of  it, it is usually followed by I used PET bottles, some were fine some weren't.  Many have said the problem is the cap.

Because of the inconsistency I was getting I gave up using PET bottles and went to glass.

Having said that many have used PET bottles for a long time with no issues.

As Jamie 86 says two carb drops can often be not enough. 

I would suggest you leave the bottles for at least four weeks, if still not carb up enough (the bottles should be hard) put one more carb drop in each bottle and leave for another two weeks at 18C and see how it goes.

[Worts and all]

4 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

@LRWOZ I agree 2 carb drops are pitiful in a tallie people are using 2 in 500 swing tops I assume if consumed young 3 would be ok. Or just get a sugar scoop and slightly heap it. Sugar is better than dextrose for carbing and the drops are just dextrose balls.

If you are getting poor carbonation with 2 drops your problem lies elsewhere. They will give you a priming rate of around 8gl- more than enough in my opinion. I bulk prime with dextrose at considerably less than that and achieve excellent carbonation. Any more produces too much froth,making pouring difficult. It also gives an excess of Co2 bite, which is fine for Coke but not, I think, for beer. I find the first 48 hours after bottling to be critical. Most fermentation, and therefore carbonation ,takes place in that period. The temperature must be 18 or more. After that the beer begins to clear and mature. I agree with others  that 4 weeks is a minimum bottle time, more for darker beers. It’s worth the wait! Also, carbonation and a good head, while they may be related, are absolutely not the same thing. It is quite possible to get either one without the other. I bottle mostly in glass with just a couple of plastics to check that carbonation is proceeding. 

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[Malter White]

5 hours ago, LRWOZ said:

Carbonation is way off.  Barely there. Short of using  third tab next time, any ideas?

I use Coopers PET bottles exclusively. After a friend said he found my beers a bit under-carbonated I started using one carb drop per bottle PLUS one CSR sugar cube. It effectively increases the priming sugar from approx. 6g to 7.5g per bottle. It's also marginally cheaper than carb drops.

Even cheaper again would be to just use plain, white sugar if you're prepared to measure it into your bottles. This would also give you more flexibility to your priming rates, as you aren't restricted to the size of drops or cubes.

[jamiek86]

4 hours ago, Worts and all said:

If you are getting poor carbonation with 2 drops your problem lies elsewhere. They will give you a priming rate of around 8gl- more than enough in my opinion. I bulk prime with dextrose at considerably less than that and achieve excellent carbonation. I find the first 48 hours after bottling to be critical. Most fermentation, and therefore carbonation ,takes place in that period. The temperature must be 18 or more. 

as muzzy said the 2 are only 6 grams in a longneck so its not 8g per litre. I don't waste my money on such a novelty and only used the ones that came with the set up a few times. All bottles have been stored in warm room same as ones with plain white sugar that have been fine. The mr beer bottles were even brand new 2 drops Is just not enough IMO. But now because I keg it's only the occasional bottle from Mr beer or left over from that won't fit in keg. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

10 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

@LRWOZ I agree 2 carb drops are pitiful in a tallie people are using 2 in 500 swing tops I assume if consumed young 3 would be ok. Or just get a sugar scoop and slightly heap it. Sugar is better than dextrose for carbing and the drops are just dextrose balls.

I have been using 2 Carb drops in my 450ml Grolsch bottles with no problem to date, excellent carbonation, with a very powerful pop on opening, but Not sure if I would personally try anymore than 2 in a 750ml Coopers Long Neck as the are slightly thinner than Grolsch. But who knows maybe you could get away with it.

[jamiek86]

1 hour ago, CLASSIC said:

I have been using 2 Carb drops in my 450ml Grolsch bottles with no problem to date, excellent carbonation, with a very powerful pop on opening, but Not sure if I would personally try anymore than 2 in a 750ml Coopers Long Neck as the are slightly thinner than Grolsch. But who knows maybe you could get away with it.

ill just stick to my sugar and measure like I said only used ones supplied with kits I don't waste $4 a pack on them for convenience when can use white sugar at under dollar kg

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, jamiek86 said:

ill just stick to my sugar and measure like I said only used ones supplied with kits I don't waste $4 a pack on them for convenience when can use white sugar at under dollar kg

You know I might try it, my brother has been using sugar for years, I have a sugar measure so why not  ? $ 4.00 is $4.00 !!

[Worts and all]

1 hour ago, jamiek86 said:

as muzzy said the 2 are only 6 grams in a longneck so its not 8g per litre. I don't waste my money on such a novelty and only used the ones that came with the set up a few times. All bottles have been stored in warm room same as ones with plain white sugar that have been fine. The mr beer bottles were even brand new 2 drops Is just not enough IMO. But now because I keg it's only the occasional bottle from Mr beer or left over from that won't fit in keg. 

Hi Jamie. You might like to revisit those figures. At 6g per 750g bottle you will be around 8g per litre. Anyway, sounds as if you have it under control with your kegging.  I am, and always have been,a dedicated bulk primer.Happy brewing!