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KristianL1

Bottles - don’t need “sterlisiation”?

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Hi legends, just getting back into the brew after a few years break.

Just been thinking:

Infection usually happens before yeast added right?

So bottles don’t really need sterilization - just rinse after use and maybe a rinse before bottling?

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1. "usually" So not always, plus where did you get this info?

2. Depends on where and how bottles are stored. 

3. Rinse - how? Just on a tap? Or with sterile water?

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14 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

1. "usually" So not always, plus where did you get this info?

2. Depends on where and how bottles are stored. 

3. Rinse - how? Just on a tap? Or with sterile water?

1. Not sure! Someone must have said it once - I guess they were wrong?

3. Tap water - After drinking I usually just add a little water and swirl it around and empty, then part fill with water again and give it a good shake, then one more time and just give it a bit of a swirl. Then dry upside and store upside down.

I also usually then place them all in a big container filled with water/vinegar/bleach mix just to give them a bit of a sterile rinse before bottling.

But just wondering if that pre bottle rinse is really necessary...

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1 minute ago, KristianL1 said:

3. Tap water - After drinking I usually just add a little water and swirl it around and empty, then part fill with water again and give it a good shake, then one more time and just give it a bit of a swirl. Then dry upside and store upside down.

I do that after drinking. But before using them I give them all a squirt from my pressure bottle of stellarsan and stick them on the bottletree, carry that into the brew area and bottle.

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Posted (edited)

Most homebrewers don't sterilize (100% kill of micro organisms) we sanitize (I believe this is 99% kill). The main exclusion to this are those who use a pressure cooker for starters.  Probably being pedantic here but just saying.

I would probably argue that an infection could probably occur at any stage. Even after a full ferment there are still some sugars that other organisms will be able to eat and create off flavours.

My process for handling bottles is:

1. Pour beer, fill with water, shake, empty and rinse - this makes the cleaning step easier

2. Wash bottles using PBW or the like then rinse and leave them drip dry on my bottle tree. This is done in a batch generally before bottling day.

3. Immediate before use I will use a bottle rinser to spray sanitize and put them back on the tree.

As usual its your homebrew so go ahead and do the rinse only method if you want to. You won't be catching me doing it.

 

Edited by NicolasW
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I pretty much do what @NicolasWDoes. At the end of the day you don't want your effort to be lost because of dirty bottles. Smell your bottles before you fill them, it could save you some annoyance. I actually add sodium bicarbonate to the bottle right after I rinse it out a couple of times and then once that is done I rinse and spray with starsan and let dry and then store for later. Then rinse and spray again before bottling.

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Awesome thanks guys 👍

One more thing - does anyone do the vinegar / bleach sanitizer?

What I have written down from years ago is 20ml of bleach and 20ml vinegar per 10 litres of water... 

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Posted (edited)

I sterilise all my gear/bottles B4 use like Consuela 

 

Edited by JoeB7
too big gif
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10 minutes ago, KristianL1 said:

Awesome thanks guys 👍

One more thing - does anyone do the vinegar / bleach sanitizer?

What I have written down from years ago is 20ml of bleach and 20ml vinegar per 10 litres of water... 

Do not mix bleach and anything - most additives will produce noxious and/or toxic fumes and byproducts.

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, KristianL1 said:

Awesome thanks guys 👍

One more thing - does anyone do the vinegar / bleach sanitizer?

What I have written down from years ago is 20ml of bleach and 20ml vinegar per 10 litres of water... 

Your probably going to have to rinse if you're using bleach. A better bet would be a non rinse sanitiser such as starsan / stellarsan / iodophor. Any decent home brew shop should stock one of those.

As Journeyman says be careful with bleach and acids. From memory that will liberate the chlorine gas but I could be wrong.

Edited by NicolasW

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14 minutes ago, NicolasW said:

Your probably going to have to rinse if you're using bleach. A better bet would be a non rinse sanitiser such as starsan / stellarsan / iodophor. Any decent home brew shop should stock one of those.

As Journeyman says be careful with bleach and acids. From memory that will liberate the chlorine gas but I could be wrong.

Definitely rinse for bleach.

IIRC, bleach plus -
vinegar - chlorine gas
ammonia - chloramine gas
rubbing alochol - chloroform

Not a good look for long term survival.

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53 minutes ago, Norris! said:

I pretty much do what @NicolasWDoes. At the end of the day you don't want your effort to be lost because of dirty bottles. Smell your bottles before you fill them, it could save you some annoyance. I actually add sodium bicarbonate to the bottle right after I rinse it out a couple of times and then once that is done I rinse and spray with starsan and let dry and then store for later. Then rinse and spray again before bottling.

Sorry meant sodium percarbonate.

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Here is a nice thread on bottle cleaning. 

 

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On 5/21/2020 at 2:41 PM, JoeB7 said:

I sterilise all my gear/bottles B4 use like Consuela 

 

With Lemon Pledge???

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Hi mate,

Here is what I do and haven't had an infection in almost 6 years of brewing.

Rinse and fill just emptied  bottle with tap water and stand overnight.

Clean with Sodium Percarbonate - Soak bottles overnight, then rinse and hang on bottle tree.

Packaging day - spray with Starsan.

I would hate to lose a brew through infection when it easy enough to safeguard against.

Cheers 

 

James

 

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If your feeling really lazy mate, some dishwasher' s will get hot enough to sanitize them in as they have feature's that are ment to sterilize baby bottles... just check the instructions first! 

also a brewer from this forum many many years back use to put them in the oven to sterilize them, (cant think the name he went by)..but any way.. personally I can honestly say that I've never tried it mate, I usually neo pink it, theres too much at stake with 30 odd longnecks.

 

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5 hours ago, James Lao said:

With Lemon Pledge???

No...no

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Posted (edited)

Your beer, you do what you think is best.

I only use PETs. My process is:
1. Drink beer.
2. Partially fill empty bottle with water and shake until sediment is lifted.
3. Empty bottle and rinse again.
4. Store upside down.
5. Day or two prior to bottling day, soak required bottles and lids in a tub of hot water with some laundry soaker ie. Homebrand Napisan.
6. Next day, rinse bottles and dry on a rack (bottle tree) upside down.
7. Bottle beer again.

Almost 3 years doing this without any problems.
 

Edited by MUZZY
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Yeah just rinsing in water doesn't really clean them properly. Over time they'll build up a haze inside them. 

When I was bottling I'd triple rinse in hot water straight after pouring a beer. Once I had a reasonable amount of empties they'd all get an overnight soak in percarbonate, then triple rinsed and drained on a drying rack. Then stored in lidded plastic tubs. On bottling day I'd simply pull them out and fill them. Never bothered with a sanitiser, bugs that infect beer don't grow or survive on dry surfaces. 

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Posted (edited)
On 21 May 2020 at 4:35 PM, KristianL1 said:

Awesome thanks guys 👍

One more thing - does anyone do the vinegar / bleach sanitizer?

What I have written down from years ago is 20ml of bleach and 20ml vinegar per 10 litres of water... 

I do exactly that. At that strength it's no rinse. Has solved all previous issues I was having. I researched widely before going with this. Developer of Starsan has stated it's the best method. Nothing toxic etc about it. Cheers.

Edit: to clarify don't mix the bleach and vinegar together. Add the bleach to the water then add the vinegar to the water. The method is no rinse but I do anyway 😏

Edited by Cerveja
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I've never sterilized bottles. It makes brewing a chore really. Good rinse straight after drinking works for me. If I've been slack and let them sit for a while I'll give a quick bottle brush.

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On 5/24/2020 at 9:16 PM, Cerveja said:

I do exactly that. At that strength it's no rinse. Has solved all previous issues I was having. I researched widely before going with this. Developer of Starsan has stated it's the best method. Nothing toxic etc about it. Cheers.

Edit: to clarify don't mix the bleach and vinegar together. Add the bleach to the water then add the vinegar to the water. The method is no rinse but I do anyway 😏

Thanks everyone - what a great forum! Glad to hear this method works - noted re not mixing bleach and vinegar straight

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On 5/26/2020 at 12:21 PM, KristianL1 said:

noted re not mixing bleach and vinegar straight

If you're going to do it even with water you WILL get chlorine gas. You will want an airy space and a fan blowing that away from your face. Seriously!

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I have also only ever used 17ml white vinegar and 17ml bleach in 10L of water, never had an infection in dozens of batches. I do it in my laundry, which is a small room with no ventilation.

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