Coopers FV

[Oldbloke]

I have a mate who is just starting to brew. I spoke to him couple of days ago. He said he got 63 stubbies (all 375s) when he bottled. Filled up to the 23 ltre mark. I was puzzled, so, I had a look at a spare coopers I have. (never used it)

 

IMO the tap is about 25-30mm too high. 

The way it's designed you either waste about 2 litres or get more than expected by tilting. You effectively dilute the beer by about 3 liters.

 

My current FV the bottom of the tap is about 10mm from the bottom.  Plenty IMO. The coopers must be close to 50mm.

 

I've recommended that next time fill the FV to 22ltres.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

Yeah I think Shamus or someone had mentioned before it was out by a little bit. I think also when I was using pots to add water that down the bottom it was out of wack a bit. Closer to the top it was not out by as much.

[Oldbloke]

Not only is it out by about 1-2 ltres. The tap is way too high. I'm astounded that Coopers would design it like that. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Oldbloke

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

53 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Not only is it out by about 1-2 ltres. The tap is way too high. I'm astounded that Coopers would design it like that. 

I think I read somewhere years ago when I started they done it for people who cold crash. So tap not so close to bottom in the muck. 

But yes they probably went a bit higher than needed. I remember when I bottled it was a pain. Kegging not so bad

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

Yeah I think Shamus or someone had mentioned before it was out by a little bit. I think also when I was using pots to add water that down the bottom it was out of wack a bit. Closer to the top it was not out by as much.

I have never had any problem with the Coopers FV, it is a great design & if you use a wedge behind the FV when you reach tap level at filling, just slide it under, (I have a purpose built wooden one that looks like a door jamb)

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

Yeah I think Shamus or someone had mentioned before it was out by a little bit. I think also when I was using pots to add water that down the bottom it was out of wack a bit. Closer to the top it was not out by as much.

• 23.8 litres reading from the graduations on the side
• 24.1 litres based on full weight versus empty weight

The tap is a bit too high IMO.  But I would rather high than low.  The 10mm @Oldbloke mentions seems too low.  Easy to suck trub out the tap.

I also tilt the Coopers FV with a couple of blocks of wood to get the last litre or three.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

@Shamus O'Sean so did you mean the 23 litre mark is out by 800ml? bit confused with weight thing you done it by weighing not measured litres?

Edited December 26, 2022 by Uhtred Of Beddanburg

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

@Oldbloke I also just thought about the few times I had used glass stubbies. Depending on what kind of stubby used. Alot of the time the fill level is a bit less by the time the wand comes out.

In saying that if expect to get 30 plastic not quite longnecks a brew its probably fairly spot on.

But you are right it's out of wack a bit as Shamus pointed out also from his test.

[Oldbloke]

Like most I tilt mine too. (Block of wood) Leave about 300-400ml behind and all stubbies are pretty clear right to the last.

The coopers FV I'm guessing you would leave at least 1.5 litres behind.seems a waste.

 

But tap is definitely too high. You can argue 10, or 25mm off the bottom. But must be close to 50mm or more

Edited December 26, 2022 by Oldbloke

[Oldbloke]

26 minutes ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@Shamus O'Sean so did you mean the 23 litre mark is out by 800ml? bit confused with weight thing you done it by weighing not measured litres?

Yeh, it's just under 1 litres out. Which matches my mate getting 3 stubbies more than me.

[thebeerpig]

Just thought I would let brewers who don’t know, and have the non Coopers type fermenters, that you can buy sediment reducers that fit into the FV type taps shown in the pic. With the slot facing upwards they draw the brew from above when the FV is tilted, thus leaving the sediment on the bottom of the FV behind. The reducers can be picked up from most  home brewing shops selling home brew gear.

[Classic Brewing Co]

27 minutes ago, thebeerpig said:

Just thought I would let brewers who don’t know, and have the non Coopers type fermenters, that you can buy sediment reducers that fit into the FV type taps shown in the pic. With the slot facing upwards they draw the brew from above when the FV is tilted, thus leaving the sediment on the bottom of the FV behind. The reducers can be picked up from most  home brewing shops selling home brew gear.

Yeah, I have all of mine fitted with them, they do work.

[Oldbloke]

4 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@Shamus O'Sean so did you mean the 23 litre mark is out by 800ml? bit confused with weight thing you done it by weighing not measured litres?

Yeh, it's about 1 litres out. Which matches my mate getting 3 stubbies more than me. He measured it buy volume and weight.

 

Just checked. My tap is 17mm up from the bottom and coopers is 55mm. 

[jennyss]

I've been brewing for one year and have  been using a Coopers fermenter and Coopers extracts. I can fill 28 or 29 'longneck' PET bottles from my 23 litre brews. With a little tilt for the last three bottles I have no trouble avoiding the sediment.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

38 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Yeh, it's about 1 litres out. Which matches my mate getting 3 stubbies more than me. He measured it buy volume and weight.

 

Just checked. My tap is 17mm up from the bottom and coopers is 55mm. 

Yeah I definitely think they could be somewhere in between that height but I'm sure they had a reason for it. As others have said is ways around it when bottle. If I bottle a few extras now before keg I do exactly that. Do the bottles first then keg. 

The one litre out explains the small difference In gravity with fresh wort kits when they quote what you should get.

[kmar92]

I have 3 x Cooper's fermenters, as far as I am concerned they are a great design and are the only plazzi fermenters that I use. Having the tap above the bottom of the fermenter is, as has been commented on, designed to stop the trub going into your bottles or kegs and even if I want to get the last of the brew out just a gentle tilt of the FV will achieve that without any problems.

A Cooper's plazzi in my ferment fridge today, partial brew fermented with Voss Kviek. 40 hours in @ 35° and according to the Rapt Pill in it nearly at final gravity.

Edited December 26, 2022 by kmar92

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, jennyss said:

I've been brewing for one year and have  been using a Coopers fermenter and Coopers extracts. I can fill 28 or 29 'longneck' PET bottles from my 23 litre brews. With a little tilt for the last three bottles I have no trouble avoiding the sediment.

Yes, Jenny they are fine, they have been purpose built & as @kmar92 says it is easy to get the beer out.

[Oldbloke]

6 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@Shamus O'Sean so did you mean the 23 litre mark is out by 800ml? bit confused with weight thing you done it by weighing not measured litres?

Yeh, it's about 1 litres out. Which matches my mate getting 3 stubbies more than me. He measured it buy volume and weight.

 

Just checked. My tap is 17mm up from the bottom and coopers is 55mm. 

[Oldbloke]

The trub only meets a few mm,  not 55mm.

The less you tilt the fv the less you disturb the trub. The lower the tap, the less tilt needed.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Oldbloke

[kmar92]

@Oldbloke have a look at the photo I posted of my FV. There is probably 35mm of trub, plus the Coopers's plazzi has a concave bottom so the trub is probably a lot deeper in the centre.

I am not about to argue what you say but I just make comments about my brews and what happens.

[Oldbloke]

39 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

@Oldbloke have a look at the photo I posted of my FV. There is probably 35mm of trub, plus the Coopers's plazzi has a concave bottom so the trub is probably a lot deeper in the centre.

I am not about to argue what you say but I just make comments about my brews and what happens.

Yes, I see.

My tap is about 30mm closer to the bottom.  Fv is flat bottomed. I don't get any trub in the stubbies. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@Shamus O'Sean so did you mean the 23 litre mark is out by 800ml? bit confused with weight thing you done it by weighing not measured litres?

No.  My Coopers FV is out by about 0.3 litres.

I weighed a reasonably full FV.  It was 25.815kg.  The reading on the side was 23.8 litres.  Once it was emptied, I weighed the FV again and it was 1.69kg.  25.815 - 1.69 = 24.125kg.  This means that when the reading on the side said 23.8 litres, it weighed 24.125kg.

Now that weight includes the trub, which given the solids, is heavier than beer.  So the difference between the reading on the side and the actual volume is les than 0.3 litres.  Bottom line: Close enough for me.

[terminal2k]

12 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

I had a look at a spare coopers I have. (never used it)

IMO the tap is about 25-30mm too high. 

I honestly can't decide if you're a troll account. You wanted to go into battle because coopers said to use bleach so it must be the best thing since sliced bread, but their fermenter design doesn't align with what you think it should be so it sucks? It may shock you but there are different opinions on most things in brewing, even so, some are the dominant opinion (like not using bleach). It's not easy to come down to the same situatuin with fermenter design as often brewers migrate to more advanced fermenters that do pressure, or are stainless. From my personal experience, the coopers fermenters are easily the best ones around (for the plastic non pressure crowd). I chucked some other plastic fermenters and aquired more of the coopers variety. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 hours ago, terminal2k said:

I honestly can't decide if you're a troll account. You wanted to go into battle because coopers said to use bleach so it must be the best thing since sliced bread, but their fermenter design doesn't align with what you think it should be so it sucks? It may shock you but there are different opinions on most things in brewing, even so, some are the dominant opinion (like not using bleach). It's not easy to come down to the same situatuin with fermenter design as often brewers migrate to more advanced fermenters that do pressure, or are stainless. From my personal experience, the coopers fermenters are easily the best ones around (for the plastic non pressure crowd). I chucked some other plastic fermenters and aquired more of the coopers variety. 

Yes, I agree Coopers Fermenters are easily the best around for their type, they are well designed, absolutely the easiest to clean & they get the job done efficiently.

The position that the tap is set at is there for a reason & most of us have agreed that is perfectly fine.

The Ambi style fermenters (shown) with the Airlock work fine too, the tap is lower, big deal, still works out fine.

I have a number of each & I even have a couple of the old-style pail types that were gifted to me, they work fine. In all my years of brewing I have never had an issue with any of them.

Coopers are celebrating 160 years of business & you would think that they know a little about fermenters.

 

[Oldbloke]

6 hours ago, terminal2k said:

I honestly can't decide if you're a troll account. You wanted to go into battle because coopers said to use bleach so it must be the best thing since sliced bread, but their fermenter design doesn't align with what you think it should be so it sucks? It may shock you but there are different opinions on most things in brewing, even so, some are the dominant opinion (like not using bleach). It's not easy to come down to the same situatuin with fermenter design as often brewers migrate to more advanced fermenters that do pressure, or are stainless. From my personal experience, the coopers fermenters are easily the best ones around (for the plastic non pressure crowd). I chucked some other plastic fermenters and aquired more of the coopers variety. 

Ok. Before you suggest im a troll think about what you said. There are two different issues.

Therefore I have two different opinions.

Second, I was told the use of bleach would ruin beer. So I was defending my opinion. And the coopers FAQ simply proved I was correct. 

I'm not shocked that there are different opinions. But I thought the expression of opinions was what this forum was about. Are you suggesting I can't express my opinion?

Horses for courses, but IMO the tap would be better if it was lower.