Pellicle. Bah!

[Malter White]

Well it's taken me over 4 years but I've finally produced my first pellicle infection.

And just as the Brew Gods would have it, it's a double batch of 50 litres and I did a few different things to my normal routine with this brew so I won't be able to pinpoint where I messed up.

It's only been fermenting for 6 days but FG has been achieved, so I've skimmed the majority of the pellicle away and will bottle it today.

I didn't detect anything horrid from a taste test. I'd rather bottle and see how it goes than to just chuck it all now.

I know I should cold crash it but that's going to be too difficult as it's been fermenting in my 60 litre barrel out of the fridge. It's too heavy to get it into the fridge now.

[Classic Brewing Co]

23 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

Well it's taken me over 4 years but I've finally produced my first pellicle infection.

And just as the Brew Gods would have it, it's a double batch of 50 litres and I did a few different things to my normal routine with this brew so I won't be able to pinpoint where I messed up.

It's only been fermenting for 6 days but FG has been achieved, so I've skimmed the majority of the pellicle away and will bottle it today.

I didn't detect anything horrid from a taste test. I'd rather bottle and see how it goes than to just chuck it all now.

I know I should cold crash it but that's going to be too difficult as it's been fermenting in my 60 litre barrel out of the fridge. It's too heavy to get it into the fridge now.

 

That's a bugger Muzzy, I have never seen that before, I hope it turns out alright for you. I guess that is one of the downsides to 60l barrels. I have always been going to get one but none of my fridges would take it & I would also have to find a permanent spot for it apart from cleaning etc.

[Malter White]

7 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I have never seen that before, 

I've never seen it before either...until now.
The 60 litre barrel has some benefits but the size and weight make it a bit impractical.

[DavidM]

60L such a shame, let's hope it's OK

[Aussiekraut]

3 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Well it's taken me over 4 years but I've finally produced my first pellicle infection.

And just as the Brew Gods would have it, it's a double batch of 50 litres and I did a few different things to my normal routine with this brew so I won't be able to pinpoint where I messed up.

It's only been fermenting for 6 days but FG has been achieved, so I've skimmed the majority of the pellicle away and will bottle it today.

I didn't detect anything horrid from a taste test. I'd rather bottle and see how it goes than to just chuck it all now.

I know I should cold crash it but that's going to be too difficult as it's been fermenting in my 60 litre barrel out of the fridge. It's too heavy to get it into the fridge now.

Sure that's pellicle? Looks like krausen islands to me. Pellicle usually forms a thin whitish layer with large bubbles on top. Something like these:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pellicle+beer&rlz=1C5CHFA_enAU903AU903&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwi45q2a5o_3AhUBuosKHVuYBzcQ_h16BAgOEAM#imgrc=mjztQWnzTElTxM

It doesn't really hurt the beer but I'd try not to disturb it and just leave a little extra beer in the FV to keep it out of the bottles.

[Malter White]

8 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Sure that's pellicle? Looks like krausen islands to me. Pellicle usually forms a thin whitish layer with large bubbles on top. Something like these:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pellicle+beer&rlz=1C5CHFA_enAU903AU903&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwi45q2a5o_3AhUBuosKHVuYBzcQ_h16BAgOEAM#imgrc=mjztQWnzTElTxM

It doesn't really hurt the beer but I'd try not to disturb it and just leave a little extra beer in the FV to keep it out of the bottles.

It didn't appear as severe as those photographic examples, AK, but there was a distinct layer of "skin" I'd never seen before.

[Aussiekraut]

14 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

It didn't appear as severe as those photographic examples, AK, but there was a distinct layer of "skin" I'd never seen before.

The beer should still be ok though. Hope you didn't dump it.

[Malter White]

8 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

The beer should still be ok though. Hope you didn't dump it.

No, didn't dump it. If it was only a 23 litre brew I might have considered it but it was a double batch with some additions. I reckon I've put close to $70 into it so I decided I'm going to give it a chance.

[jennyss]

52 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Sure that's pellicle? Looks like krausen islands to me. Pellicle usually forms a thin whitish layer with large bubbles on top. Something like these:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pellicle+beer&rlz=1C5CHFA_enAU903AU903&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwi45q2a5o_3AhUBuosKHVuYBzcQ_h16BAgOEAM#imgrc=mjztQWnzTElTxM

It doesn't really hurt the beer but I'd try not to disturb it and just leave a little extra beer in the FV to keep it out of the bottles.

@Aussiekraut, I'm not sure that I needed to see those pellicle pictures! Scary stuff! It must be quite hard to tell the difference between a healthy krausen and unhealthy pellicles?

Edited April 13, 2022 by jennyss

[Malter White]

4 minutes ago, jennyss said:

It must be quite hard to tell the difference between a healthy krausen and unhealthy pellicles?

Not really. @Aussiekraut could only go by my photograph. What I could see probably didn't show up so well in it. Of all the beers I've made, probably between 60-100, I've had some with bubbles still on top at FG and they were fine. With this one the bubbles were trapped by a film not unlike the skin that forms on cooled boiled milk. You'll know it when you see it, Jenny.

[Aussiekraut]

40 minutes ago, jennyss said:

@Aussiekraut, I'm not sure that I needed to see those pellicle pictures! Scary stuff! It must be quite hard to tell the difference between a healthy krausen and unhealthy pellicles?

Yeah it looks a bit scary but in most cases is perfectly harmless. The causes aren't clear but in the end it is a collection of microbes floating on top of the beer. It is quite common when brewing with certain saison yeast strains or using lactobacillus to make a sour but not particularly common when using "normal" yeasts. It can happen, when the CO2 layer at the liquid/air interface gets disturbed and little critters can move it. I've seen it a few times in my beers but the were all fine. It is usually quite obvious to see if it is pellicle or krausen.

[Malter White]

F*#&! The choc stout that had the pellicle in the FV has developed bath tub ring after 5 days in the bottle.

[Classic Brewing Co]

35 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

F*#&! The choc stout that had the pellicle in the FV has developed bath tub ring after 5 days in the bottle.

I don't ever recall having anything like that before Muzzy but then I have never seen a pellicle either, I trust it turns out to be a good brew for you.   

[Malter White]

1 minute ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I don't ever recall having anything like that before Muzzy but then I have never seen a pellicle either, I trust it turns out to be a good brew for you.   

I don't like my chances, Philthy. I've had rings around my bottles before from probable early bottling creating a secondary fermentation krausen. These rings look slimier than those previous rings.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

I don't like my chances, Philthy. I've had rings around my bottles before from probable early bottling creating a secondary fermentation krausen. These rings look slimier than those previous rings.

I do know what you mean, for some time now I have been bottling after 14 days minimum, I find it works better even if you leave it a few more days for clarity & the obvious yeast cleanup.

I have only ever had to chuck one brew, fortunately is was a Mr Beer extract done in the Craft Fermenter, I discovered the problem was a pinhole in the bottom of the barrel. Brewcraft changed it over for me. It was weird as it developed like a second krausen & just didn't look healthy.

[DavidM]

2 hours ago, MUZZY said:

F*#&! The choc stout that had the pellicle in the FV has developed bath tub ring after 5 days in the bottle.

Well that's not good

Edited April 18, 2022 by DavidM

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, MUZZY said:

F*#&! The choc stout that had the pellicle in the FV has developed bath tub ring after 5 days in the bottle.

I was a bit worried when you said you tried to scoop out the pellicle from the FV.  Most advice is to bottle from under it without disturbing the surface.

It's a bit hard to tell what's going on in there.  Unless the ring is really ugly, I would at least leave it for the 14 days and then give one a try.  The extra surface activity could be a stout thing too.  They usually generate a bit more krausen in the FV and equally during secondary fermentation in the bottle.

To be on the safe side, move the bottles to a plastic tub or something similar in case you have any ruptures.

 

[Malter White]

I may have dodged a bullet. In the name of research and development I decided to open one of the bottles.

It's only 8 days old and it was room temperature but I couldn't detect any off odours. There was a few bits of the bath tub ring in the foam which is a little off putting. I had a small taste and everything seemed as it should for a beer served warm and so young.

I guess the real test will come in a few weeks time when I drink a few pints cold and whether it affects my digestive system or not.

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, MUZZY said:

I may have dodged a bullet. In the name of research and development I decided to open one of the bottles.

It's only 8 days old and it was room temperature but I couldn't detect any off odours. There was a few bits of the bath tub ring in the foam which is a little off putting. I had a small taste and everything seemed as it should for a beer served warm and so young.

I guess the real test will come in a few weeks time when I drink a few pints cold and whether it affects my digestive system or not.

 

She'll be right mate, cuppla days !!

[ben 10]

On 4/13/2022 at 7:25 AM, MUZZY said:

I know I should cold crash it

Glad you didn't do that bit

[MitchBastard]

Shout out to Muz for creating a new style. The sour stout Consider it free probiotics. 
 

hope you did dodge a bullet mate, I think you’ll be right. 

[Malter White]

20 minutes ago, MitchBastard said:

Shout out to Muz for creating a new style. The sour stout Consider it free probiotics. 

I'm sure that's how mushrooms were discovered.
Two blokes in a forest. One sees a mushroom for the first time and says, "That looks tasty."
His mate says, "It looks like it was growing out of sh1t."
First guy. "It can't hurt to try it, surely." 

 

[ben 10]

11 hours ago, MitchBastard said:

Shout out to Muz for creating a new style. The sour stout Consider it free probiotics. 

Old school Guiness had Brett innit

[Malter White]

Update on the pellicle stout.

It actually tastes pretty good. Was supposed to be double choc but has more coffee tones than chocolate to my palate. It's still a nice drop though.

The bathtub ring around the neck of the bottles is still concerning, so I've been wiping it away with paper towel before pouring which has stopped pellicle floaties in the glass.

Cheers

[DavidM]

Glad it's all good..

I bottled my stout a few days back and I had Pellicle on top..

let's hope that mine is also drinkable!