First brew with Coopers 23l kit

[Marty_G]

On 2/26/2020 at 12:56 PM, iBooz2 said:

Here is a brew graphic of my batch

Love that, so you obviously have temp control so next lager you do use W34/70. It is a good lager yeast that will give that good clean crisp finish.  Only thing is you will have to lager. At a minimum it will be 8 weeks from bottle to glass.  But now is the time to start thinking about brewing lagers as winter conditions are the best to lager at ambient temps.  Oh and ferment temp will be in the 10-12 range.  

Edited March 1, 2020 by MartyG1525230263

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Only thing is you will have to lager. At a minimum it will be 8 weeks from bottle to glass.  But now is the time to start thinking about brewing lagers as winter conditions are the best to lager at ambient temps.  Oh and ferment temp will be in the 10-12 range.  

Don't agree with the min 8 weeks.  I drank my W54/70 brews earlier and they were good.  Lagering only just made them even better.

And although traditionally ferment is 10-12 degC with W34/70 (with diacetyl rest higher and clean-up steady decline in temps to lower) you can get good results from 15-17 degC in a non-traditional approach.

 

Agreed re winter being a better time for Lager Brewing yep.

[Journeyman]

20 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

And although traditionally ferment is 10-12 degC with W34/70 (with diacetyl rest higher and clean-up steady decline in temps to lower) you can get good results from 15-17 degC in a non-traditional approach.

I've only recently thought about a lager - now that I have 2 fridges capable of holding 2 FV's each, it becomes feasible to have lager sitting in one. One has a freezer with separate controls - I'll experiment and see if I can set it to stay around 1° - 2°. But even if not, having one fridge at that temp for a few weeks is doable because I can always use it as the CC fridge as well.

Just means regular brewing so I have a steady stock turnover and don't get down in stock like I did recently. Which is why I did 3 brews within a short time. 

So if I understand above, I'd brew cold at (say) 12° then at FG, raise the temp to maybe 18° or 20° for diacetyl rest, for a couple of days then back down over maybe several days to lagering temp? When would I bottle? At diacetyl temp or after getting back down to lager temp?

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

So if I understand above, I'd brew cold at (say) 12° then at FG, raise the temp to maybe 18° or 20° for diacetyl rest, for a couple of days then back down over maybe several days to lagering temp? When would I bottle? At diacetyl temp or after getting back down to lager temp?

Start the D Rest when the SG is about 1020ish. It will speed up the ferment and also get rid of the diacetyl.  My rule of thumb is when the SG is about 2/3rd through.  My brews drop about 30 points so I do after a drop of 20.    When the FG is reached follow normal practice for yeast clean up and  cold crash. Then, in your case, bottle and let the bottles sit at ambient for a couple of weeks to carbonate then store in a cool dark place. In a fridge is great but not necessary as in most parts of Australia the winter ambient is cool enough.  As BB said the 8 weeks in not mandatory as the beer will taste fine but it does taste better with long term lagering usually 12 weeks.   

On a side note, this is were pressure fermentation is at its best.  You brew at ambient between 10 & 15 psi and no D-rest is needed nor is lagering. From all I have read and seen on YouTube the pressure ferment enables lagers to be reach conditioned stage virtually immediately.  For those of us who like a good lager this is a huge advantage.  I have an AG Pils in a keg which has been in the fridge now for the guts of 7 weeks and it is only just starting to taste right. It was good before but now it is  brilliant.  If by pressure fermentation it can be brilliant in 2 it will be a time saver for lager brewers.   Also note: not all people brew lagers and lagering is one of the reasons why or like Captain they just do not like them.   On the other hand I think the best beers i have had have all been lagers had some rippers in Europe and in particular Poland and Czech Republic my god they are good. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by MartyG1525230263

[iBooz2]

20 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Very conscientious AL!   Do you do SG with hydro?  Or Refracto?

If I did it every day with my hydro I'd end up with no beer ha ha ; )

@Bearded Burbler I use a hydrometer mate.  Plenty of beer left using method below.

When I take initial sample and reading, remove hydrometer and put sample tube back into ferment fridge besides the FV to allow it to ferment out just like the main batch.  Then nearly every day grab the sample tube out and drop in hydrometer again for an updated reading.  Its not real accurate as you have to jiggle it a bit to get rid of bubbles and foam but good enough for purposes.  That way not drawing off new sample each time because as you know, no reward left to drink in the end.  The initial sample stays in the test tube all the way through to the landing at FG.

I do a little spreadsheet as a record of each batch and just punch the readings in each day or whenever taken.  BD, day 1, day 2 etc. etc. there is a little chart attached to this data which auto updates when I update the readings and it gives me a picture of what is going on.  Not really that much work once the sheet has been setup.

its mandatory for me, to take SG readings every day when trying on a new recipe or yeast, that way I know how it will perform for me over the batch.  Very easy to see if a problem is occurring.  If the next batch of the same recipe and yeast etc. performs different or is getting stuck, does not land as low in FG, so on and so on, you can ask why? and make adjustments hopefully before disaster.

I have two FV fridges and this spreadsheet is not really needed when the temp is controlled.  It was more from days of old, when the temp used to climb all out of range because of not much control.  Gives me an excuse to open the FV fridge and drool over the brew and have a bit of a smell of the test tube to make sure things not going astray.  It also helps me organize/pre-plan bottling or kegging days ahead as I can see where it at and heading, which in turn plans my new batch brew days.

Cheers AL

[Journeyman]

11 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@Bearded Burbler I use a hydrometer mate.  Plenty of beer left using method below.

When I take initial sample and reading, remove hydrometer and put sample tube back into ferment fridge besides the FV to allow it to ferment out just like the main batch.  Then nearly every day grab the sample tube out and drop in hydrometer again for an updated reading. 

WARNING! Leave the cap loose on the tube when you place it in the fridge. And/or put it in a jar. Mine built enough pressure to blow the cap and of course, it was the BOTTOM cap that came off leaving a cleanup job AND an FV that decided to stick to the bottom of the fridge.

[iBooz2]

20 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Mate if you like your lagers and have temp control - you should get some W34/70 yeast and do a colder brew - and use Liquid Malt instead of any dry product - and you will notice a remarkable difference.  Bit of extra cost but the brew will take a quantum leap forward.  Just a thought. BB

@Bearded Burbler Thanks BB, yep I have some W34/70 on hand but just thought I would do this lager kit that came with the FV as per Cooper's recipe and use their kit yeast this time around pretty much just to get rid of it and the BE1.  That way, I now know what this turns out like and its onward and upwards from there.

And yes you are right about brewing it cold and lagering the bottles so will re-visit a "proper" lager closer to winter.  My daughter has a cellar under her house (built for previous owner who was a big wine buff) and she does not drink so very safe to park the bottles down there for a month or two then get stuck into em'.

Cheers - AL

[iBooz2]

4 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

But now is the time to start thinking about brewing lagers as winter conditions are the best to lager at ambient temps.  Oh and ferment temp will be in the 10-12 range.  

@MartyG1525230263 +1 to that plan, its already in my brew calendar.  Not really fussed about brewing and drinking lagers, just going to give a few a go and see.  Maybe a couple each winter if they turn out alright otherwise it will be a stable diet of Ales.

Cheers - AL

[Titan]

24 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

WARNING! Leave the cap loose on the tube when you place it in the fridge. And/or put it in a jar. Mine built enough pressure to blow the cap and of course, it was the BOTTOM cap that came off leaving a cleanup job AND an FV that decided to stick to the bottom of the fridge.

Your sample tube comes with a cap? What witchcraft is this? 

[Journeyman]

49 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@MartyG1525230263 +1 to that plan, its already in my brew calendar.  Not really fussed about brewing and drinking lagers, just going to give a few a go and see.  Maybe a couple each winter if they turn out alright otherwise it will be a stable diet of Ales.

Cheers - AL

You should treat your missus better - then she might let you drink inside instead of out in the stable.

31 minutes ago, Titan said:

Your sample tube comes with a cap? What witchcraft is this? 

Yep... All of them did, including the one I dropped into the tube without holding the bottom cap and then had to call the missus because I was barefoot and surrounded by tiny shards.

Did you lose yours...  

[iBooz2]

1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

WARNING! Leave the cap loose on the tube when you place it in the fridge. And/or put it in a jar. Mine built enough pressure to blow the cap and of course, it was the BOTTOM cap that came off leaving a cleanup job AND an FV that decided to stick to the bottom of the fridge.

@JourneymanYes know all about that and had chuckle at your expense because it reminded me of something.  CO2 Bombs.

Donkey’s years ago not long after I stated brewing beer made lots of wine as the ingredients were easier to come by and mostly free.

One year I made wine out of rose petals and my mother really liked it so said would take it to the next level for her and new year’s batch would be “rose petal champagne”.

The next time it was racked down a couple of times and for final ferment bottled it in those big Cold Duck magnum bottles that were around back then.

When it was ready to drink the old man grabbed one out of the fridge then went to open it up. Only just touched the wire twisty that holds the cork in place, it shot straight up and put a 50 mm dent in their kitchen ceiling.  It nearly took his face off.  Solid stream of wine to the roof and by the time he could stop it and get over a sink, only ½ a glass left.  The remaining bottles had to be taken outside and opened there, mainly for the fun of seeing how far the corks would fly.

Nearly every time I visited them, he would point to the damaged plaster ceiling and say “you remember your wine”.  Perhaps he was hinting I should have fixed it.

@Titan Probably talking about the packaging cap that comes with most of those hydro tubes.

@Journeyman bloody autotext again.  I should staple this computer to the wall of the stable.

Cheers AL

[Titan]

28 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

You should treat your missus better - then she might let you drink inside instead of out in the stable.

Yep... All of them did, including the one I dropped into the tube without holding the bottom cap and then had to call the missus because I was barefoot and surrounded by tiny shards.

Did you lose yours...  

So im getting this feeling your doing a sample in the tube that the hydrometer came in?

[Journeyman]

5 minutes ago, Titan said:

So im getting this feeling your doing a sample in the tube that the hydrometer came in?

Yep... Should I not be?

[Titan]

14 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Yep... Should I not be?

No. You need another tube for sampling.  https://www.ebay.com.au/i/254476668680?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=254476668680&targetid=836269913958&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071791&poi=&campaignid=7412064620&mkgroupid=80796191717&rlsatarget=aud-692203741102:pla-836269913958&abcId=1139216&merchantid=9859052&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1-3yBRCmARIsAN7B4H1N9O_XqLVl0cjXaqNZCVnwO321A6M197EMigc2kpAErps8tQgdl30aAs00EALw_wcB

[Otto Von Blotto]

Was gonna say sounds a bit weird having a cap on the sample tube

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

Yep... Should I not be?

I take it you're not using a Coopers hydrometer as their cylinder is good to use.  If not it doesn't matter as you can use the tube the hydrometer came in but I would not seal it.  

Edited March 2, 2020 by MartyG1525230263

[Journeyman]

47 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Was gonna say sounds a bit weird having a cap on the sample tube

Well, it was early days and I thought it might stop contamination of the sample.

30 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

I take it you're not using a Coopers hydrometer as their cylinder is good to use.  If not it doesn't matter as you can use the tube the hydrometer came in but I would not seal it.  

I have both a Coopers one and a glass SG/ABV one.

1 hour ago, Titan said:

No. You need another tube for sampling.  

Is there a reason for that? Seems to me, provided the hydro floats, the tube it comes in is just fine and the amount of liquid doesn't make a difference.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Depends on the tube but it's much easier to read it in a proper sample tube. They're often wider so it prevents it from sticking to the sides which gives false readings. Plus a lot of the storage tubes have paper inserts and shit getting in the way as well. 

[Titan]

20 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Well, it was early days and I thought it might stop contamination of the sample.

I have both a Coopers one and a glass SG/ABV one.

Is there a reason for that? Seems to me, provided the hydro floats, the tube it comes in is just fine and the amount of liquid doesn't make a difference.

Sure you can but will be harder to get a reading as it will have a big potential to touch the side of the tube.

[Titan]

How do you keep it standing. Must be very unstable?

[Marty_G]

34 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

Is there a reason for that? Seems to me, provided the hydro floats, the tube it comes in is just fine and the amount of liquid doesn't make a difference.

correctamondo

[Journeyman]

5 minutes ago, Titan said:

How do you keep it standing. Must be very unstable?

Well, the one that blew the bottom off was just leaning in the fridge corner. Now I use a jar.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Journeyman

[Journeyman]

14 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Depends on the tube but it's much easier to read it in a proper sample tube. They're often wider so it prevents it from sticking to the sides which gives false readings. Plus a lot of the storage tubes have paper inserts and shit getting in the way as well. 

Nope for mine - just plastic tube with plastic caps on the ends.

[Popo the Reprobate]

I use the tube it came in sometimes if my other "proper" sample tubes are in use. It's a bit leaky and needs to be in a jar but does the job in a pinch. I always feel like I'm living on the edge because the bottom cap can come off at any time.

[Titan]

22 minutes ago, Popo said:

I use the tube it came in sometimes if my other "proper" sample tubes are in use. It's a bit leaky and needs to be in a jar but does the job in a pinch. I always feel like I'm living on the edge because the bottom cap can come off at any time.

I have a brew day coming this weekend will give it a shot and see how it is. Will compare readings using my normal glass tube v the packing tube. I will also comment on user experiance, how easy was it to get the reading. Not something i would normally do. Just think you will miss your numbers more often, which aint so bad at the high side but could be catastophic if you bottle a beer thats not finished.