iBooz2 Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 All good Muzzy. Checked my PET bottles this morning after a couple of days at ambient and yep the dents (from squeezing all the air out before capping) have popped out and the bottles feel firm so I did not freeze/kill my yeast so worry over. @NewBrews Did not attempt the soda stream trial, was afraid of a big mess. Remembered I have one of those carbonation tees to fit the PET bottles so should have used that and my newly acquired CO2 cylinder to pump it up but chickened out on that too. Good tip on opening gassed bottles slowly as this stops (well lessens anyway) the whole bottle from going flat as fast. Find if I do that with my home brewed ginger beer its good to the last pour. Cheers - AL 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 9:17 AM, iBooz2 said: ...Remembered I have one of those carbonation tees to fit the PET bottles so should have used that and my newly acquired CO2 cylinder to pump it up but chickened out on that too.... What is a 'carbonation tee? Haven't run across that before. You don't just mean the measuring spoon thing do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Journeyman said: What is a 'carbonation tee? Haven't run across that before. You don't just mean the measuring spoon thing do you? Think he is refering to a top that can be screwed onto PET bottles that has a gas disconnect on it and the beer can be force carbonated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Journeyman said: What is a 'carbonation tee? Haven't run across that before. You don't just mean the measuring spoon thing do you? Yep Marty is correct @Journeyman, here is what I was talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=358&v=jebpq5KTgz4&feature=emb_logo Have not tried it on a PET bottle filled with beer yet, only on plain cold water and it seemed to go OK when I mixed up a couple of drinks using the soda-stream lemon squash syrup. Just unsure of gas pressure to set regulator at for best results, so still playing around a bit to get it right. Got this tee and associated bits as I thought it would be good to sample the brew carbonated, after the cold crashing phase and before bottling or kegging. Cheers - AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K GOOD Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hi all. I just bottled my first brew in the 23l kit (lager) First 28 bottles looked great. Bottom of the barrel looked very cloudy and I had a lot of yeasty deposit on the bottom. Is this normal?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, K GOOD said: I just bottled my first brew in the 23l kit (lager) First 28 bottles looked great. Bottom of the barrel looked very cloudy and I had a lot of yeasty deposit on the bottom. Is this normal?? The colour is a bit odd but yes, the last bit of liquid will be cloudy and the trub in the bottom is what settled out over time and the CC/finings process. (if you did those) I've actually done a couple of 'last bottles' from brews and they mature a bit quicker than the others but taste just fine, although with more yeast in the bottom of the bottle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 @K GOOD Yes that is normal but I had a lot more yeast cake sitting on the bottom of my first lager batch. Are you sure you let it ferment right out? What was the FG? Also did you cold crash it for a few days to let the yeast drop? The milky colour of the beer that’s left there is most likely caused by tipping the FV forward to get last couple of litres out of the tap then letting it slosh back while you reach for the next bottle to fill. I setup my FV on a bit of MDF sheet then used a couple of timber wedges slid under the back of the MDF to tip the FV forward. That way it holds the FV forward enough, is hands free and is a once only movement so no beer is sloshing back and forth to stir up yeast cake when bottling. Good luck with your batch, let us know how it turns out. Cheers - AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 Well I tried a bottle of this "first brew" lager yesterday; it was bottled on the 5th Feb and stored at ambient temps. When it was bottled and after the two carbonation drops were put in, the PET was squeezed so that very little air was in the bottle before cap screwed so it would be pumped up by only CO2. The test bottle was rock hard so figured it was worth a try. It was chilled down for 2 days before the test drink. Found it did not fizz when cap undone (yes it was very tight) and when decanted into a jug, lacked carbonation. It had a very small head, tasted perfectly fine, maybe a touch on the sweet side but of course quite flat. There was a slight yeast cake left over in the bottom of the PET. The weather has been stupidly cool here in Melbourne, normally stinking hot at this time of year so that may have played a part in lack of carbonation. Cannot help thinking though, I may have killed off my suspended yeast in this batch as I accidentally took it right down to freezing during the cold crash, in fact it had ice in the beer at the rear of FV nearest the back of the FV fridge but was ok at the front. Am going to wait another two weeks before trying another bottle to see if yeast will come good with the gas. If not then I think they have been taken to the brink or been killed. Cheers - AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K GOOD Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 On 2/11/2020 at 10:29 AM, Journeyman said: The colour is a bit odd but yes, the last bit of liquid will be cloudy and the trub in the bottom is what settled out over time and the CC/finings process. (if you did those) I've actually done a couple of 'last bottles' from brews and they mature a bit quicker than the others but taste just fine, although with more yeast in the bottom of the bottle. Cheers for that. Been in the bottles 2 weeks yesterday so cracked one today. Very bitter taste and alot darker than what I was expecting/have seen from others. I must of done something wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K GOOD Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 On 2/11/2020 at 2:37 PM, iBooz2 said: @K GOOD Yes that is normal but I had a lot more yeast cake sitting on the bottom of my first lager batch. Are you sure you let it ferment right out? What was the FG? Also did you cold crash it for a few days to let the yeast drop? The milky colour of the beer that’s left there is most likely caused by tipping the FV forward to get last couple of litres out of the tap then letting it slosh back while you reach for the next bottle to fill. I setup my FV on a bit of MDF sheet then used a couple of timber wedges slid under the back of the MDF to tip the FV forward. That way it holds the FV forward enough, is hands free and is a once only movement so no beer is sloshing back and forth to stir up yeast cake when bottling. Good luck with your batch, let us know how it turns out. Cheers - AL Thanks @iBooz2 you're spot on I definitely tilted it forward and that's when I ended up with the murkyness. Followed the instructions around fermentation to the letter but my result today is quite bitter and much darker than I expected. Not sure what you mean by cold crash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 @K GOODwhat did you throw into your batch exactly? Can you post a pic of a glass of your beer? I put the BE1 and 1 x 500 g pack of Coopers DME. I did this because @BlackSands suggested the lager kit would otherwise be a very unremarkable beer. Mine on first taste was not bitter, probably a bit on the sweet/malty side if anything. Mine was really quite flat so going to give it much more time. Yes mine was much darker amber than my other pale ale based kits but that was to be expected. I think it is a nice colour really for this style and if it carbonates up ok it will be quite a drinkable beer. I don't think you have done anything wrong, it may just take some/much/more time in the bottle to improve. Next week I will open another bottle of mine and post a pic so you can compare. Cheers - AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) On 2/24/2020 at 12:01 AM, iBooz2 said: ...the PET was squeezed so that very little air was in the bottle before cap screwed This could be the reason why your carbonation levels are low. A portion of the CO2 generated during in-bottle secondary fermentation has been used to replace the air that was squeezed out rather than being dissolved into the beer. I don't think there's anything wrong with the 'squeeze method' itself, but you do need to compensate for the extra volume that needs to be filled by using a little more priming sugar, and that of course is very difficult to do when using carb drops! Edited February 25, 2020 by BlackSands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 13 hours ago, K GOOD said: Thanks @iBooz2 you're spot on I definitely tilted it forward and that's when I ended up with the murkyness. Followed the instructions around fermentation to the letter but my result today is quite bitter and much darker than I expected. Not sure what you mean by cold crash? Cold crash (CC) is a step at the end of fermenting. Once you get 2 identical readings on your hydrometer a day or so apart, it indicates the ferment has completed - all the sugars are converted that can be. (note on occasion if this happens VERY early on, it might be a stalled brew but complete ferment is usually after at least 4 - 5 days) Once the ferment is complete, it's a good idea to give the brew a few more days just sitting around at ferment temp - this lets the yeast continue it's work - after it converts all the sugar it can also do some clean up on some of the possibly unwanted byproducts of the ferment. So the idea of a CC is to drop the temp down very low, say 1° or 2° and let it sit there for a couple of days. When it gets cold (say under 5°) you add finings. I use gelatin - it not only does the job fine (pun intended ) for me, it is cheap. Coles has it in the baking section in a small tin for about $3.50 for enough for 10 brews or more. The combo of finings and CC drops almost all the floaties to the bottom of the FV, leaving you a nice clean beer. Then you bottle it cold, add the priming sugar (or malt - something I haven't tried yet but intend to) and cap the bottles. As they come back up to ambient temp the yeast wakes up and converts the primer, creating CO2 in the beer, along with a slight increase in ABV. There was a recent discussion about how, after the priming is complete, say 2 weeks on the shelf, it can be good to then store the bottles in a fridge and low temp (drinking temp) as this may (or may not) improve the beer over time. Certainly it's good for lagers but for ales I don't think the jury returned a verdict. Could be worth trying a half and half batch if you are interested and have the fridge space. The fridge space is the kicker for most of us - who has a fridge to dedicate to NON-drinking bottles for a month or so? Note this doesn't mean you can't have great beer without a CC - just do the finings at end of ferment and keep the FV as cool as possible and wait a few days, maybe 4 or 5 (depends how impatient you are for your beer ) to give the yeast time to clean up after itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, BlackSands said: This could be the reason why your carbonation levels are low. A portion of the CO2 generated during in-bottle secondary fermentation has been used to replace the air that was squeezed out rather than being dissolved into the beer. I don't think there's anything wrong with the 'squeeze method' itself, but you do need to compensate for the extra volume that needs to be filled by using a little more priming sugar, and that of course is very difficult to do when using carb drops! Except for my first brew, I have squeezed the PET right to the top of bottle before capping - haven't had a single low carbonated bottle among them. In fact a bit the opposite - I eventually figured the carb drops are for long necks and PETs aren't quite as large so I went to sugar and primed PETs a little bit under the full spoonful - maybe a mm or 2 below the 'plimsoll line' I did find the early bottles, long necks AND PETs, were less frothy than if I waited the time it took to prime properly - after 2 weeks out to about 4 for a couple of brews, the head improved markedly. Prior to 2 weeks it was a bit light on and didn't leave tidal lines as I drank, although the beer seemed fine to drink. Edited February 25, 2020 by Journeyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Journeyman said: Except for my first brew, I have squeezed the PET right to the top of bottle before capping - haven't had a single low carbonated bottle among them. In fact a bit the opposite - I eventually figured the carb drops are for long necks and PETs aren't quite as large so I went to sugar and primed PETs a little bit under the full spoonful - maybe a mm or 2 below the 'plimsoll line' I did find the early bottles, long necks AND PETs, were less frothy than if I waited the time it took to prime properly - after 2 weeks out to about 4 for a couple of brews, the head improved markedly. Prior to 2 weeks it was a bit light on and didn't leave tidal lines as I drank, although the beer seemed fine to drink. Two carb drops are intended for 740-750 ml bottles. And 'low carbonation' and 'high carbonation' are of course relative terms. To the English, any hint carbonation would most likely be considered "high carbonation" I find when young the head tends to be more of a lose open foam or froth... but after more conditioning time it then becomes more compact and creamier in consistency. Also, most brews will eventually carb up given enough time. I know of some who haven't primed their bottles at all... and after 6 months all had pretty good carbonation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, BlackSands said: Two carb drops are intended for 740-750 ml bottles. And 'low carbonation' and 'high carbonation' are of course relative terms. To the English, any hint carbonation would most likely be considered "high carbonation" I find when young the head tends to be more of a lose open foam or froth... but after more conditioning time it then becomes more compact and creamier in consistency. Also, most brews will eventually carb up given enough time. I know of some who haven't primed their bottles at all... and after 6 months all had pretty good carbonation. There was also a thing I found on the Coopers site for one of their recipes - I mentioned it her e and I don't think others had seen it. It stated that if a beer is going to be stored for longer periods, only 1 carb drop should be used in long necks to avoid bottle bombs. (not quite the wording but you get the gist) It was in a thread about guys getting Vesuvius beers on opening the bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Journeyman said: There was also a thing I found on the Coopers site for one of their recipes - I mentioned it her e and I don't think others had seen it. It stated that if a beer is going to be stored for longer periods, only 1 carb drop should be used in long necks to avoid bottle bombs. (not quite the wording but you get the gist) It was in a thread about guys getting Vesuvius beers on opening the bottle. Yes, I think if long-term storage is intended then reduced priming is recommended. However sometimes, long term storage occurs unintentionally! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, BlackSands said: However sometimes, long term storage occurs unintentionally! Not so far for me... Particularly now SWMBO drinks beer. I did calcs based on just me and suddenly we've got 2 thirsts to quench. Not sure what it is about commercial beers she dislikes but I tried for 13 years to get her to find a beer she liked and she hated them all. Worst comment I've had so far on HB is, "That's not as nice as the other ones!" I might have to get a gun safe and hide the key if I want to do long term storage. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 4 hours ago, BlackSands said: This could be the reason why your carbonation levels are low. A portion of the CO2 generated during in-bottle secondary fermentation has been used to replace the air that was squeezed out rather than being dissolved into the beer. I don't think there's anything wrong with the 'squeeze method' itself, but you do need to compensate for the extra volume that needs to be filled by using a little more priming sugar, and that of course is very difficult to do when using carb drops! @BlackSandsYep I was thinking that myself and reckon you have hit the nail on the head. Hopefully have not copped a double whammy. 1. Cold crashing too cold and 2. The squeeze the air out thing. I have always done the squeeze thing when bottling my home brewed ginger beer and that has worked out very well. I guess time will tell on this batch. Cheers - AL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 17 hours ago, K GOOD said: Not sure what you mean by cold crash? @K GOOD Sorry K Good forgot to answer your question re cold crash terminology but I see @Journeyman has since done that so all good. Here is a brew graphic of my batch so you can see what has gone on over the 15 days from pitch to bottling. Hope that helps. Cheers - AL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 17 hours ago, K GOOD said: Not sure what you mean by cold crash? D-Rest from above graphic... Once ferment has completed, many HB'ers do a 'diacetyl rest' which means raising the FV temp to perhaps 22° for a couple of days. This is to encourage the yeast to finish off properly and clean out unwanted byproducts (such as diacetyl) which are formed during ferment. So on completion of ferment it's up for a couple of days then down to maybe 1° or 2° for a couple of days with the finings introduced once the temps get down low. It's all just to ensure clean beer that is only beer, with all the taste and goodness without the extras. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 Chilled down a bottle of this lager and had another taste test after 3 week in the bottle and it now fizzes when cap undone and is nicely carbonated. Sweet taste has gone and its becoming a reasonable beer to drink. Certainly not the best beer I have brewed but ok. Plan to try 1 bottle per week to work out when it peaks and best to attack them en mass. Cheers - AL 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 10:30 AM, Journeyman said: Particularly now SWMBO drinks beer. I did calcs based on just me and suddenly we've got 2 thirsts to quench. Not sure what it is about commercial beers she dislikes but I tried for 13 years to get her to find a beer she liked and she hated them all. Worst comment I've had so far on HB is, "That's not as nice as the other ones!" Great job JMan - you've done well! And I think I agree with her that there is a lot to dislike about a lot of commercial beer... she obviously has good taste... or actually does want to taste something in the beer ; ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 1:56 PM, iBooz2 said: Here is a brew graphic of my batch so you can see what has gone on over the 15 days from pitch to bottling. Hope that helps. Cheers - AL Very conscientious AL! Do you do SG with hydro? Or Refracto? If I did it every day with my hydro I'd end up with no beer ha ha ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 8 hours ago, iBooz2 said: Chilled down a bottle of this lager and had another taste test after 3 week in the bottle and it now fizzes when cap undone and is nicely carbonated. Sweet taste has gone and its becoming a reasonable beer to drink. Certainly not the best beer I have brewed but ok. Plan to try 1 bottle per week to work out when it peaks and best to attack them en mass. Cheers - AL Mate if you like your lagers and have temp control - you should get some W34/70 yeast and do a colder brew - and use Liquid Malt instead of any dry product - and you will notice a remarkable difference. Bit of extra cost but the brew will take a quantum leap forward. Just a thought. BB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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