First brew with Coopers 23l kit

[Lab Cat]

I would give either the Canadian Blonde or Cerveza a go if you like lagery type beers. I think they do it better than the standard lager kit. You could even make a proper lager from them now you have temp control. Takes a bit longer and ideally stored cool for longer, but I've done them as summer ales brewed with ale yeast, and they're good.

I'd either go BE3 of plain dry malt. Can't hurt to throw some hops in too, it makes a difference.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Coopers DME and others like it don't dissolve well in my experience. Always clumpy. The yeast will still find it and chew through it however. 

I only use DME for starters these days, but I always try to source the coarser one, because it dissolves easily and doesn't foam up and boil over on the stove, another PITA of the finer powder DME.

[iBooz2]

LR - I am not really one-eyed on lager style beers, just wanted to be setup properly to do them if I wanted to.  Next brew in the new Fermzilla I have as second FV which will be in my second controlled temp fridge will probably be the Pacific Summer Ale.  I have plenty of stock of Australian Pale Ale and Real Ale Coopers kit cans and associated BE packs etc. so will run with those for time being.  The only problem I have with the Pacific Summer Ale recipe is the requirement for Summer hops and also Galaxy hops both of which my local/s HB stores do not have in stock.  I have the required yeast packs for this one too.

Does anyone know if Saaz a good substitute for Summer?  I see a recent post that Big-W have galaxy hops so might grab some there tomorrow so that should get me over the line for a little while.  Just need to build up my stock of beers as I now have new kegs waiting to be filled so hence the 2 x FV's going at same time.

Thanks for everybody's help and advice.

Its amazing how many friends suddenly start visiting once they know you have some beer brewing.

Cheers

 

[Red devil 44]

51 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

LR - I am not really one-eyed on lager style beers, just wanted to be setup properly to do them if I wanted to.  Next brew in the new Fermzilla I have as second FV which will be in my second controlled temp fridge will probably be the Pacific Summer Ale.  I have plenty of stock of Australian Pale Ale and Real Ale Coopers kit cans and associated BE packs etc. so will run with those for time being.  The only problem I have with the Pacific Summer Ale recipe is the requirement for Summer hops and also Galaxy hops both of which my local/s HB stores do not have in stock.  I have the required yeast packs for this one too.

Does anyone know if Saaz a good substitute for Summer?  I see a recent post that Big-W have galaxy hops so might grab some there tomorrow so that should get me over the line for a little while.  Just need to build up my stock of beers as I now have new kegs waiting to be filled so hence the 2 x FV's going at same time.

Thanks for everybody's help and advice.

Its amazing how many friends suddenly start visiting once they know you have some beer brewing.

Cheers

 

Hey mate Welcome,

                                  I’m a Galaxy fan, & found out Big W sell it ( wifey got me some ).

[Pezzza]

 

[Pezzza]

On 10/2/2019 at 1:52 PM, Aussiekraut said:

How do you lager them? In the ferment fridge or at ambient temps? I'm mainly looking at making the odd lager once I made the transition to AG. For the time being, kit and extract ales it is

I did my All Grain product lagering Alter Kumpel at 2 deg C in glass bottles for three months approx and it was magic!  All with W34/70 and cold brewed using @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey's recommended lager temp protocol... and you get a very nice product... that gets even nicer with the cold lagering.  Think that the orginal stuff was done in caves... saw something nice about a Beer from Bamberg being lagered in caves still today...  Cheers BB

[Lab Cat]

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

Its amazing how many friends suddenly start visiting once they know you have some beer brewing.

They are cheap bastards and deserve nothing more than your failed experiments. Give them the Cooper lager

[Marty_G]

14 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Coopers DME and others like it don't dissolve well in my experience. Always clumpy.

If done on the stove top and given a good stir, I have found heating 2l of strike water to about 50 then adding the DME it will dissolve pretty quickly. 

[Aussiekraut]

10 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

 Think that the orginal stuff was done in caves... saw something nice about a Beer from Bamberg being lagered in caves still today...  Cheers BB

They also had their beer gardens for that purpose. They planted trees above their store rooms to prevent the sun from warming up the ground, so it remained nice and cool underneath.

 

[Aussiekraut]

12 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

LR - I am not really one-eyed on lager style beers, just wanted to be setup properly to do them if I wanted to.  Next brew in the new Fermzilla I have as second FV which will be in my second controlled temp fridge will probably be the Pacific Summer Ale.  I have plenty of stock of Australian Pale Ale and Real Ale Coopers kit cans and associated BE packs etc. so will run with those for time being.  The only problem I have with the Pacific Summer Ale recipe is the requirement for Summer hops and also Galaxy hops both of which my local/s HB stores do not have in stock.  I have the required yeast packs for this one too.

Does anyone know if Saaz a good substitute for Summer?  I see a recent post that Big-W have galaxy hops so might grab some there tomorrow so that should get me over the line for a little while.  Just need to build up my stock of beers as I now have new kegs waiting to be filled so hence the 2 x FV's going at same time.

Thanks for everybody's help and advice.

Its amazing how many friends suddenly start visiting once they know you have some beer brewing.

Cheers

 

Of all the HBS within a 40km radius, only one sells Summer hops. It's not the easiest hop to get these days. There are a few places online which sell it though. Try CraftBrewer, they have stock.

I think I remember reading that although the two are relatives, Saaz is not a suitable replacement for Summer. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

2 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

If done on the stove top and given a good stir, I have found heating 2l of strike water to about 50 then adding the DME it will dissolve pretty quickly. 

I'm sure that works well but not easily done in an Erlenmeyer flask.

Also doesn't solve the ridiculous boilover problem. I found that stuff used to produce these weird strands of grey stuff when it got close to boiling, almost like a hot break type thing. Then it would foam up and volcano out of the flask unless you killed the heat in time. Took about 25 minutes to boil it for 5 minutes, F that.

In contrast, the coarser powder dissolves easily at room temperature and doesn't carry on like that when it's brought to a boil. Much more user friendly at least for what I'm using it for. I'm not saying the other stuff is crappy quality, but its behaviour is not very good for my purpose.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Otto Von Blotto

[Journeyman]

2 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

If done on the stove top and given a good stir, I have found heating 2l of strike water to about 50 then adding the DME it will dissolve pretty quickly. 

That's how I do mine and never had much of a clumpy problem. Stirring while adding though.

[Pezzza]

10 hours ago, Journeyman said:

That's how I do mine and never had much of a clumpy problem. Stirring while adding though.

Same JMan.

But @Otto Von Blotto is spot on wrt an Erlenmeyer... that would be dangerous...

In all honesty for a yeast starter I think boiling-water-sterilising the container and then adding the LDME to the boiling water in it (which I can as it is a large preserving jar) and then a bit of swirling once done... works a treat.  Do not shake when the water is close to boiling as the seals do not hold.

@Otto Von Blotto this coarse LDME product does sound useful and practical - what trade name does it come under and where would you recommend procuring it e.g. web ordering would be useful as I cannot do the 12 hours to Bris to fetch of a weekend generally ; )

[Otto Von Blotto]

It's just called light dry malt. Unfortunately ordering online is a bit of a lottery because you don't know which type they stock. I obviously know Craftbrewer stocks the coarser one though since that's where I buy it from

[Shamus O'Sean]

One of my LHBS in Hallam (SE suburbs of Melbourne) sells a light dry malt that dissolves really well. Not sure it is the same course stuff Otto refers to. It does seem a tiny bit courser than the Coopers version.  However it still crystallises very quick, sticks to the edge of whatever container you put it in, and makes the bench top sticky.

Does the job though.  I buy it in person in 5kg bags.

[Otto Von Blotto]

It probably is the same stuff. The one I use does all that too. 

I know the main difference between them is the drying method used, but there must be other differences as well given the significant differences in behaviour, especially when boiled. 

[iBooz2]

Thanks AK, well done.  I have some Summer hops now on order from the mob you found and hopefully on their way.

Interestingly I spoke to a number of Melbourne based home brew stores when looking for Summer or a substitute hop and got "sorry no stock" and different answers on a sub. Same with my on-line search so how do you go about substituting a hop? where do you go as a baseline reference?

Thanks also to you blokes who have put me onto the courser grained light dry malt.  Will give that a crack in next couple of brews and see how it goes.

Set myself up with another temp controller fridge today so ready to test the second FV. Got some kegs, gas and all that gear too so will pressure ferment the next brew.

After day 4 the original lager brew in the coopers FV still looks the same, not much Krausen at all, but starting to look like and smell like beer, bumped temp up to 21C on day 2 as it looked a bit slow to me.  When do you think I should take another gravity reading?

Cheers

[Pezzza]

 

On 1/24/2020 at 10:16 AM, Otto Von Blotto said:

t's just called light dry malt

That's fekkkkkkkin helpful isn't it? 

Ok but Craftbrewer... are those the fellas at Cappa Labba?  ; )

(Capalaba)

[Pezzza]

19 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

When do you think I should take another gravity reading?

What yeast?

I wouldn't rush things... probably on day 7?

Others might think differently...

[Journeyman]

17 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Ok but Craftbrewer... are those the fellas at Cappa Labba?  ; )

(Capalaba)

I was all set to do a buy at Beerbelly but turned out they aren't open on Mondays so I went to Craftbrewer. Thinking back a week or so, I think the LDME I stirred into the wort WAS easier on the dissolve. Previous LDME has on occasion caused an extended period of chasing lumps and smearing them to get rid of them - I figured having lumps in the FV might not be a problem for brewing but it would sure queer the OG reading.

[Pezzza]

2 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I was all set to do a buy at Beerbelly but turned out they aren't open on Mondays so I went to Craftbrewer. Thinking back a week or so, I think the LDME I stirred into the wort WAS easier on the dissolve. Previous LDME has on occasion caused an extended period of chasing lumps and smearing them to get rid of them - I figured having lumps in the FV might not be a problem for brewing but it would sure queer the OG reading.

Cheers JMan - can you remember what sort of $/kilo?

[Journeyman]

45 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Cheers JMan - can you remember what sort of $/kilo?

So, my bad - CountryBrewer in Kilburn not Craftbrewer.

I know it was cheaper than BigW packs - they are $9/500gm. I think it was about $13.50/kg. Looked for the receipt but musta got chucked. Pretty sure though - I got 3 kg Light malt, 1 k g dark amber malt, 1 kg golden promise grain, 1 kg light crystal, 1 kg maltodex for ~$73

[iBooz2]

Could not help myself and getting impatient so took a sample on day 6.  Was very bubbly / foamy in tube, smell was great and could of had a drink then and there but decided to take a leaf out of OVB's book and just left the test tube and hydrometer in the FV fridge so I can see it drop over next day or so and know when its really done.  Plus this will save some of the precious reward - the beer.

Have upped the temp to 23C and will probably up it by 1 degree each day now (until its 25C) whilst it is finishing off then cold crash for several days after FG has been confirmed.

The hydrometer I have reads approx 3 less than actual at room temps.

Now on the subject of dissolving LDM would I be better off to just use liquid malt extract to save a lot of stirring time?

Is it kilo for kilo OR does 1kg of liquid light malt extract equal some other ratio of light dry malt?  Just so I know when a recipe calls for 1.5kg of light dry malt.

Also any flavor differences?

That Lightning Strike Summer Ale looks good, may do that one next while I am waiting on the Summer hops to arrive.

Cheers - AL

 

[Malter White]

On 1/22/2020 at 3:35 PM, iBooz2 said:

Now that my house north of Cairns has been all painted out and “tarted up” it’s time to get back into brewing in Melbourne.  Job took 2 months and it was one hell of a drive so I think I have earned a beer or three.

First brew laid down yesterday evening was simply the kit lager brew can, 1 x pack BE1, 1 x pack 500gm DME, kit yeast, 23 litre volume. Yeast pitched at 26C.  OG = 1045. FV in fridge controller set to 20C and brew was down to 21 in about 4 hours. 12 hours later foaming nicely so it is away.  Going to leave set temp at 20C.

Some problems noted and may help other new brewers.

Kitchen sink even though it is large and a double tub was not suitable for washing and sanitising all my gear so bought and used a large plastic tub for this sole purpose.

The diluted Atomic 15 sanitiser I used actually etches and damages Laminex kitchen bench-tops so those marks will have to be explained to the wife when she is in a good mood.

Mixing in the DME was problematic as it went all lumpy like meringues and took quite a while to dissolve but still not completely, will have to work on my technique here.

Could not get the wort temp down quickly, only used about 3 litres of boiling water to mix dry ingredients in a sanitised SS pot, rest was normal filtered cold tap water at about 21C.  I forgot after being away for so long I had a 15 litre cube of icy cold water ready in another fridge just for this purpose so really only a memory problem here.

Coopers kit hydrometer shows 3 points less than actual so need to remember to adjust its reading.

Now to get a second brew going in my other FV but what recipe?

Thanks Journeyman that lagering link was most informative

Cheers

I wash larger equipment and bottles in the bath.
The link below might assist your LDM dissolving.

 

[Pezzza]

3 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Now on the subject of dissolving LDM would I be better off to just use liquid malt extract to save a lot of stirring time?

 

If you are bottling -  go to the shop and buy some Coopers Carb Drops.

That is the best way forward.  Put two in one 750 and one in a 375.

If this is your first brew... please do this.  You don't need to be doing Bulk Prime or Liquid Prime right now - just use the best way forward to success.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Bearded Burbler