James Lao Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Hi all, Just kegged a brew and was using an auto syphon for the first time to transfer to keg but was getting air bubbles in the line and had to pump the syphon. Result was a bit of foam in the keg. After about 6 litres, stopped using the auto syphon and picked the FV up and used my normal method of transferring from the tap to the keg. Reason for using auto syphon was to see if I could transfer without picking up the FV and putting it on the bench first. Dont think I will use the syphon again and now am concerned about the splashing / air bubbles being sucked in through the syphon causing oxidisation. Anyone had oxidized beer in a keg from a bad transfer method? If so how long does it take? Beer was about 3degC and has gone into cold keg and being force carbed.. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I use a syphon but only to transfer from cube to FV and I’ve never had bubbles come through but I hear your pain. Ive only kegged one beer at this stage but I’m sure now I won’t be using a auto syphon for that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Baron Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I used mine when kegging during the week and it worked fine. All it takes is the rubber to have a tiny split or for a tiny bit of debris around the seal and it will suck air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I think you'll just have to wait and see. A better method which I'll be using when I get a couple of things for it is transferring into a sealed keg full of CO2 via the beer out post. Need a length of beer line and a bottling wand with the end cut off, and another liquid disconnect. It won't be 100% oxygen free (headspace in the fermenter) but it'll be better than my current hose into the bottom of an open keg, which gets bubbles in it as well. While I'm yet to have any oxidation issues from it, I'd rather eliminate it all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Think about what the bubbles are, where did they come from? I'd be thinking mostly CO² that was already dissolved in the beer coming out of solution since its a closed system so air didn't magically appear With one heavily hopped neipa i used a balloon filled with CO² to refill the headspace in FV while CC and racking to keg , that was also the only neipa I've made that showed signs of oxidation. ( most likely since I opened FV 3 times for dry hopping , I did attempt to purge with CO² as well) Not a great sample size for data collection but was a PITA and wasted a lot of gas so I skipped it since 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Cheers for the replies. The tube I had over the outlet side of the syphon wasn’t forming a complete seal and it looked like air was getting in through that. Suppose time will tell, hopefully it won’t be too bad. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 On the subject of oxidisation I bought a Mash Brewing Copycat IPA last night on special, and the taste was completely different to the one I bought from the same bottle shop about 9 months ago. The one I had a while back was delicious but last nights one was a bit off ish. Maybe this was oxidized? Did a bit of research in the net and found an article on Brulosophy (roll eyes now), and it was for me encouraging! The results were not distinguishable and the oxidized keg was splashed in from the fermenter from a short tube. There is hope yet! Added bonus is my beers usually don’t go past 6 weeks from packaging. Cheers James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 You'll probably be ok, but splashing beer into kegs is fkn stupid. I get the experiment angle but I wouldn't recommend doing it based off their results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 This article may be of interest: https://onepotbrewing.com/2015/08/06/the-myth-of-oxidizing-and-the-paranoia-of-homebrewers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 For bottling yeah, I never used a "proper" wand either, just a tube that fitted into the tap and was long enough to reach the bottom of bottles, didn't have any issues, but kegs that are filled cold and kept cold for carbonation are a different thing. There's no yeast activity to mop up any oxygen present. It really doesn't matter if it's commercial or home brew scale, the potential for it to react and cause off flavors exists, and it doesn't take a lot of effort to minimise the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Mark D Pirate said: what the f#@k is that????? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, Ben 10 said: what the f#@k is that????? Mt Hopmore I named it. There was an inch of solid hops over 3 separate dry hops and 1.4 kg total . Massive waste of hops really, I normally use half that amount 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just finished my Amarillo Pale Ale that I thought would suffer from oxidisation. Turned out more than fine, was 7 weeks in the keg which is a record for me! Cutting down a fair bit this year ! Had a BBQ and quite a few were saying it was the best homebrew they had ever had, and I had to agree of course!! Never thought Amarillo was punchy enough for me but I think it gives a beer a nice smoothness compared to Citra or Mosaic, they are probably more suited to IPAs maybe. Cheers James 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) On 12/8/2018 at 9:40 PM, BlackSands said: This article may be of interest: https://onepotbrewing.com/2015/08/06/the-myth-of-oxidizing-and-the-paranoia-of-homebrewers/ The author is talking about bottling, not kegging. With bottling, the yeast clean up any oxidation that may be picked up during transfer, when they ferment the priming sugar. That is one of the beauties of bottle conditioning. Kegging is different, since there is no secondary fermentation. I am not a kegger, but if you are really concerned about oxidation, what about throwing a bit of sugar (~100-140gm) into the keg after transfer, letting it ferment for three days or so, and then force carbonating it? James, I totally agree about Amarillo. It has become a favourite of mine in my APAs, although I usually use it in combination with Centennial, and either Citra or Mosaic. Cheers, Christina. Edited January 26, 2019 by ChristinaS1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Amarillo and Centennial are the hops in Evil Twin. Yum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 6 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said: I am not a kegger, but if you are really concerned about oxidation, what about throwing a bit of sugar (~100-140gm) into the keg after transfer, letting it ferment for three days or so, and then force carbonating it? Christina. For that matter, if oxidation is such a concern to keggers why not just carbonate the keg fully with priming sugar, no need then for forced carbonation, and then simply apply CO2 for serving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Flavour. I find force carbonated beer in kegs tastes a bit cleaner than beer that goes through a small secondary fermentation. Oxidation isn't a concern if the transfer is done carefully anyway. If it's done carelessly then it would be a concern with beer that is kept cold the whole time and force carbonated though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Just had a bottled beer judged in a beer comp. My submission style was American Pale Ale. I would have rathered call it a Pale Ale because it was fermented with Nottingham and was under late-hopped for American style. My major issue was judged as being slightly Oxidized. After talking through my process with one judge it was suggested that "no-chill" may have been the reason. My no-chill are cubed and sealed (some air gap) at 80c and simply sit overnight until I transfer to FV next day at 18c. Has anyone else experienced Oxidisation from an overnight no-chill? Any comments welcome. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, Worthog said: Has anyone else experienced Oxidisation from an overnight no-chill? I have not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I thought oxidation occurs post fermentation. Any oxygen introduced during the no chill process would be utilised during fermentation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) So to open up comment options further, this is my process; Boil in aluminium 38L pot FO. Leave 15m. Add final hop. Whirlpool, cover with lid for 30m Syphon into cube. Usually between 83c and 81c at this stage. 20L cube still has small air-gap, too much to squeeze container and cap. Next day at 18-21c transfer to FV, do OG and yeast it with rehydrated or harvested yeast. FV placed in fridge, ETC'd to 18c With 2 previous replies, my problem lies somewhere else maybe? Please comment... Cheers Edited November 29, 2019 by Worthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Could YOU taste the oxidisation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ben 10 said: Could YOU taste the oxidisation? Not me. I have previously been working through what I thought may be some astringency. I've been doing pH, acid malt, and no bag squeeze and no sparge in later batches. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Worthog said: Not me. There is a chance it is a misguided interpretation of something else..... Hot side aeration maybe? I have no idea the impact that has on a beer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 23 minutes ago, Hairy said: I thought oxidation occurs post fermentation. Any oxygen introduced during the no chill process would be utilised during fermentation. My bottling over 3 years has been bottle wand, at 2c, later all glass, capped with Superautomatica. My bottling is kegging residual. Usually 3 Bottles. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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