The Captain!! Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 I guess here’s another question, I’ve scaled this recipe by percentage. I could only assume that crystal malts scale linearly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Baron Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I always use 80% Pale malt, 15% Munich and 5% Caramunich 1 for my IPA’s and they are bang on for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Beer Baron said: I always use 80% Pale malt, 15% Munich and 5% Caramunich 1 for my IPA’s and they are bang on for my liking. That’s basically what I’ve done previously too. Nothing too over the top, this particular recipe has me thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Only 1 way to find out Captn. Look forward to your report back at drinking time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, joolbag said: Only 1 way to find out Captn. Look forward to your report back at drinking time That’s what I reckon. I might bottle some up to post to the naysayers if it’s great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy81 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Looking forward to the results Captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 hours ago, The Captain1525230099 said: I guess here’s another question, I’ve scaled this recipe by percentage. I could only assume that crystal malts scale linearly? Keeping the ratio of total brewing liquor (strike + sparge volume) to crystal malt weight the same should get you very close in terms of the same flavour contribution in the pre boil wort. However, if your boil-off as a percentage then varies from the original system the recipe is for, you will be concentrating the flavour differently. But you can't get around this by using the ratio of the end of boil volume to crystal malt weight because you will likely have different mash / lauter losses than the original system, so will be starting the boil with a different concentration of crystal malt flavour. So, you could just scale to your volumes and expected yield using percentages, then tweak the flavour by fixed amounts from there. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 16 hours ago, Ben 10 said: how do you get dry with a large amount of crystal? most commercial craft beers are too sweet for me, too much crystal - @Beerlust IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WEATHER!!!! The crystal malts you generally use in your recipes for the most part are quite dark EBC versions that carry a lot of sweetness, hence your view of them. The lighter versions are far more subtle, & as I think Kelsey mentioned earlier in the thread CaraPils doesn't carry any noticeable sweetness, so when you have crystal malts not much darker than that, there can only be so much sweetness that it could add. Perhaps you need to brew this too Ben10? Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 9 hours ago, porschemad911 said: Keeping the ratio of total brewing liquor (strike + sparge volume) to crystal malt weight the same should get you very close in terms of the same flavour contribution in the pre boil wort. However, if your boil-off as a percentage then varies from the original system the recipe is for, you will be concentrating the flavour differently. But you can't get around this by using the ratio of the end of boil volume to crystal malt weight because you will likely have different mash / lauter losses than the original system, so will be starting the boil with a different concentration of crystal malt flavour. So, you could just scale to your volumes and expected yield using percentages, then tweak the flavour by fixed amounts from there. Cheers, John Thanks John. I have read this before however you have put it in such a way that was much easier to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Beerlust said: The crystal malts you generally use in your recipes as i posted i was referring to beers that i buy, not my beers, not caraaroma. The little irish red had 360g of crystal malts in it. which amounted to 10.6% - that was perfectly balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Ben 10 said: as i posted i was referring to beers that i buy, not my beers, not caraaroma. The little irish red had 360g of crystal malts in it. which amounted to 10.6% - that was perfectly balanced. I'm a little confused about your stance on this one mate. Are you suggesting that a certain weight of crystal malt regardless of it's EBC & treatment is as far as you can take a brew to before it becomes too sweet? If so, then I disagree with that. As your OG goes up in certain styles of beer, I'd agree to watch your levels of these malts though. I remember when I first started using grains with my brewing, & posting recipe ideas for comment here on the forum, I received more than a few comments suggesting I was using far too much crystal malt in some of those brews, yet all bar one (I think?) turned out really well, & certainly not overly sweet. Those Pale Ale recipes used malts such as CaraPils, CaraMalt, Light Crystal, & Joe White Amber Malt. All malts at the lighter end of the scale. 600gms+ using various combinations of these malts was common. When I do my Karl Strauss clone next time, I'll bottle a few & send you up a couple. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Beerlust said: When I do my Karl Strauss clone next time, I'll bottle a few & send you up a couple. please do, it's always a delight tasting your beer. i don't know my stance really, it is certainly not cut and dried. take benny's bug red @Norris! said for him there was too much crystal, for me it is perfect. you had it too didn't you? i don't know. going to have another of my pacific saisons now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Ben 10 said: please do, it's always a delight tasting your beer. i don't know my stance really, it is certainly not cut and dried. take benny's bug red @Norris! said for him there was too much crystal, for me it is perfect. you had it too didn't you? i don't know. going to have another of my pacific saisons now. Yeah I had your Big Red Rye, not sure about the "bug red" you sent Norris! I thought it was terrific & told you so. You used the "chateau" malt for the colour. I get where you are coming from, I do. When I was first using grains, I wasn't mashing, only steeping. So I was looking for the flavours some base malts create like Munich & Vienna etc. They weren't available in extract at the time so I had to experiment with grains I could steep that mimic'd some of those malt flavour influences in beer. The lighter crystal malts do IMHO. I'm not suggesting they are the same, but when push comes to shove & you have no other option, they do pretty well on that front I reckon. I've since moved on to be able to mash base malts & would say there are similarities in what is achievable between levels of the two once you fully understand both. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Yeah that was just my personal preference, so that is worth whatever. My wife loved it...only a slight tinge of jealousy there. My pallete is pretty meat and potatoes, and I really never had any beers with a lot or a fair whack of crystal malts. I grew up drinking coors light. My craft beers experience before brewing was hit and miss. I didn't know what I wanted or liked or their names, so I had a lot of beers that I hated. Once I got into brewing my knowledge has grown while my pallete has come along slowly. I love hops and am beginning to appreciate the complexity of yeasts, but I am light years behind in malt knowledge. I didn't mean any offense Ben I was just giving my feedback, I should of told you about my wife's views then but I was still stinging from the love she gave the beer. @Ben 10 Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Norris! said: I was just giving my feedback, yes, and i was using that as an example. absolutely no issues with honest feedback buddy, much better than bullshitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Norris still seems to have one leg in the Coors beer pit. We need to fully extract him. You appear to be still dancing around the edge of the "awesome beer" pool Norris. Let all your fears go. Just take the plunge & dive in mate. You won't regret it. I'm brewing beers today I never thought I ever would, & enjoying them on levels I never saw past the blinkers I never knew I had on at the time. The flavours (& aromas) across the full beer spectrum are quite amazing to experience if you take the time to pursue them. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Cheers Ben! I am Lusty! I sneak a Corona here and there...it isnt the same, I love the clean crisp mouthfeel but the taste on those types of beers are boring at best. You are right though I am slowly branching out. The GABF is in Albury next weekend so I will have plenty of chances to expand the horizons! I might be too much of a perfectionist and have some confused expectations on what to expect from some ingredients, gained only from experience and sampling while knowing what was used in the brew. If I taste any flavour or aroma that I wasnt expecting...it is hard to recover, for my pallete. The hops in my last lager left a slight sweetness, everyone who tries it loves it...I taste the sweetness and I hate it now. I think it was the falconer flight dry hop or the fact that I should of bittered the lager to 30 ibus with a nice 60 to 45 min boil but I used a Mexican cerveza kit and started the hop additions at 15 min down. I have no idea about what is too much crystal because I think it is about personal preference AND what you are hoping/trying to accomplish. If you have a solid plan and idea of what you hope to achieve then I think bucking the trend can be a good thing. Most, not all, but most new trends start here on the homebrew level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Norris! said: ...The hops in my last lager left a slight sweetness, everyone who tries it loves it...I taste the sweetness and I hate it now. I think it was the falconer flight dry hop or the fact that I should of bittered the lager to 30 ibus with a nice 60 to 45 min boil but I used a Mexican cerveza kit and started the hop additions at 15 min down. That brew is a mistake. Accept it. I love falconer's flight hops & they are in NO WAY responsible for the failure of that beer. If you plan to brew hoppy pale ales with a kit base, don't EVER use the Mexican cerveza kit again. It isn't suited. Use the AUS Pale Ale kit. If wanting to make an IPA from a kit base, use the IPA or Sparkling Ale kit. Your short boil hop additions with the hops used have added little in the way of bitterness, hence the noticeable sweetness in the end beer. You're at a point now where you should be bittering your own beers from scratch without the aid of a kit. Bittering is the last step I have ended up on in my hop brewing knowledge journey, & surprisingly the area I am finding the most interesting. It's OK to fail, just learn from it. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Beerlust said: If you plan to brew hoppy pale ales with a kit base, don't EVER use the Mexican cerveza kit again. Hmmm, not sure this is good advice Lusty. I prefer the Mexican kit as a base for 2 reasons: A slightly lower IBU number so you can load up the late boil additions more (I believe Christians uses this kit as a base now for this reason); and No specialty malts, so it is just a blank base malt / bitterness canvas Steep some specialty malt if you want, do a big 15 min hop addition to top up the bittering as needed, then go to town with late boil, flameout and dry hops. Add LDM to get to the OG you want. Could just turn out to be a great pale ale! Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 You also don’t need to use the IPA kit to make an IPA. I used to make a great IPA using the Coopers OS Draught kit. As John stated, it leaves a lot more room for your late hop additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Cheers Guys! Advice taken on board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 9 hours ago, porschemad911 said: (I believe Christians uses this kit as a base now for this reason) Sorry this should read 'I believe Christina uses this kit as a base now for this reason'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 12 hours ago, porschemad911 said: Hmmm, not sure this is good advice Lusty. Why would I want corn in my pale ale/IPA? Both kits are from the International series at the same price point. You can certainly use the Mexican Cerveza, but why? Ale/wheat base vs Pilsner/corn base. I know what I'd choose for this style of beer. 12 hours ago, porschemad911 said: 1. A slightly lower IBU number so you can load up the late boil additions more The AUS Pale Ale kit is a MASSIVE 5 IBU higher than the Mexican Cerveza @ 23 litres fermented. You can still load up late boil additions. 12 hours ago, porschemad911 said: 2. No specialty malts, so it is just a blank base malt / bitterness canvas I'm pretty sure the AUS Pale Ale kit has no crystal malts in it & still produces quite a light coloured beer. Yeah my comment may have come across a little over the top, but your argument for the Mexican Cerveza is certainly flawed (as proven above). Enjoy your corn boys. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Beerlust said: Enjoy your corn boys. Haha, there's no corn in there Lusty, just 100% lightly kilned barley malt. Check the ingredients list on the can to make sure. The APA kit has pale malt, what malt, and a touch of crystal malt. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, porschemad911 said: Haha, there's no corn in there Lusty, just 100% lightly kilned barley malt... Surprising, as traditionally the Mexican lagers do. 8 minutes ago, porschemad911 said: ...Check the ingredients list on the can to make sure. I don't think I've ever bought the can. Why would I? Revised statement: Enjoy your lightly kilned barley malt boys. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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