All Grain for Newbies

[therealthing691]

I have decided to take the plunge into all grain brewing .Also setting up a brew fridge.

I have been doing extract steeping grains etc for about 2yrs and decide I would like to step it up

Any advice would be appreciated. I have been doing heaps of research but would like to hear the opinion of others.

I have a display fridge which will operate from any set temperature from 14 -1c  to uses a little more power but I have 6kw of solar panels so that isn't a issue

anyhow for the heating side of things is a heating belt or belts good enough?????????.I was going to buy a MkII controller. Is this a good controller. Where is a good spot for the probe

the side of the fermentor insulated by foam ?????

 

As for the Mashing/sparging side of it I was going to get a robo brew Gen3   when there back in stock at the place of purchase.

Also various other accessories PH meter hopspider  so on .

 I have read up about water quantity's sparging /mashing and the water absorbed by grain etc I was looking at doing a simple mosaic Smash brew first up

with Maris Otter Pale grain . Any tips advice good reads would be great

                                                                                       Thanks in advance cheers Brian

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

If you use an external temperature controller on your fridge, then it will operate at whatever you set the temperature controller to regardless of its internal temp range. The only exception is if you set the controller lower than the fridge can get; in your case it would stop dropping at -1. I don't know what my fridge's maximum temp is, probably around 7 or 8, but it maintains a 10-12 or 18ish ferment temp easily with the use of the controller sitting on top. Tape the probe to the side of the fermenter insulated underneath foam, I find this is the best way unless you're using a thermowell. Heating I'll leave to someone else, because I rarely have to use it I just boil some water in an Erlenmeyer flask and stick that in the fridge to warm it up when required, which is usually about 1 or 2 batches per year .

When you get your AG equipment, the best thing you can do at first (well other than learning the process) is to measure and record everything. Boil off rates, trub left behind, water absorption by the grain etc. Pre-boil and post boil SG and volumes. These things help you when designing recipes or adapting them to your own equipment, as well as determining water volumes you need to hit your batch volume targets. I wouldn't worry about pH and shit at first, just learn the process and figure out your equipment parameters first up. The best way to do this is to simply brew a few batches and work it out by measuring and recording and adjusting.

Cheers

Kelsey

 

[therealthing691]

11 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

If you use an external temperature controller on your fridge, then it will operate at whatever you set the temperature controller to regardless of its internal temp range. The only exception is if you set the controller lower than the fridge can get; in your case it would stop dropping at -1. I don't know what my fridge's maximum temp is, probably around 7 or 8, but it maintains a 10-12 or 18ish ferment temp easily with the use of the controller sitting on top. Tape the probe to the side of the fermenter insulated underneath foam, I find this is the best way unless you're using a thermowell. Heating I'll leave to someone else, because I rarely have to use it I just boil some water in an Erlenmeyer flask and stick that in the fridge to warm it up when required, which is usually about 1 or 2 batches per year .

When you get your AG equipment, the best thing you can do at first (well other than learning the process) is to measure and record everything. Boil off rates, trub left behind, water absorption by the grain etc. Pre-boil and post boil SG and volumes. These things help you when designing recipes or adapting them to your own equipment, as well as determining water volumes you need to hit your batch volume targets. I wouldn't worry about pH and shit at first, just learn the process and figure out your equipment parameters first up. The best way to do this is to simply brew a few batches and work it out by measuring and recording and adjusting.

Cheers

Kelsey

 

Thanks Kelsey taken on board    cheers

[Worthog]

Regarding heat. I use a heat mat on it's edge in the fridge. If I'm fermenting in my insulated rubbish bin I use a heat belt around and just sitting on the bottom rib of the standard carboy. Both methods ok.

I use an Inkbird controller on the fridge.

Cheers

[Worthog]

I to am considering AG rather than extract'n'specialty steep.

Reading John Palmer scares a little.

Eg; there is 'mash' for some base grains and 'steep' for specialty grains.

The base grain 'mash' requires a three stage 'steep' of 30mins each at 40c, 60c, and 70c to convert all the good stuff. 

Can someone confirm while responding to Brian, above. Ta.

[Hairy]

5 minutes ago, Worthog said:

I to am considering AG rather than extract'n'specialty steep.

Reading John Palmer scares a little.

Eg; there is 'mash' for some base grains and 'steep' for specialty grains.

The base grain 'mash' requires a three stage 'steep' of 30mins each at 40c, 60c, and 70c to convert all the good stuff. 

Can someone confirm while responding to Brian, above. Ta.

The three stage mash you referred to is a step mash schedule and isn’t necessary for most beers.

Generally a 60 minute mash in the mid 60’s is sufficient. Low to Mid 60’s for a more fermentable wort and Mid to Late 60’s for a less fermentable wort.

A final mash out around 75 degrees helps with the sparge.

It is relatively simple to make wort, even with minimal equipment,

[The Captain!!]

My set up is a 40l crown urn, with a bag and a pulley system. 

I bought BeerSmith 2 mobile and selected my equipment. I’ve never missed my numbers on any of my brews so this is why I’m a advocate for BeerSmith. 

Made some beer by warming up my water to 67-68. Drop the crushed grain in, water is now 64/65 and let that steep for an hour. Pull the bag out via the pulley system. Place that bag into a bucket in a bucket that drains the wort and catches it. Add residual bucket caught wort and boils for 60mins.

At certain intervals add hops, and a whirlfloc. 

End of boil decant into 25l plastic drum (cube) then clean up. 

Decant into a fermenter and pitch yeast.

cold crash after 9 days, bottle enjoy 8-10 days later

Captain

[Worthog]

and....Robert's your mother's brother!....  How could Palmer write a whole book scaring people with details like he did? 

Cheers

[The Captain!!]

When I first read it I was like bloody isomerisation what??? And saccrafication of what devil spawn. 

But he is an engineer and has a mind like one. So he writes like one. This makes him very thorough at what he does.

Keep reading and it does get better but yes it’s very daunting at first. 

Captain

 

[Gullys Brewing]

I need to read this book.

As you may of read in other posts I have lucked onto a 3v RIMS setup. It is actually surprisenly easy to use, to build... another story, I can link you to the build thread for the original owner if you like.

I have come to an understanding of 'step mashing' but only cause the system I will be using makes it very easy to adjust and repeat. I still have alot to learn though

Beersmith 2 mobile (soon to be 3 July I think, coopers need to create a version of this for extract brewers) is great. To play with it to see what effects each step and it goes some way to explain what/Why it does certain things

I am hoping to put my first AG brew down this weekend, doing a Kolcsh style, but it is testing my skill set and stretching my knowledge. Should be good, I will be posting my day on here.

Okay enough 

Gully

[Scottie]

11 minutes ago, Worthog said:

and....Robert's your mother's brother!....  How could Palmer write a whole book scaring people with details like he did? 

Cheers

Hey WH

For my 2 cents worth, your understanding of brewing can be as complicated or as simple as you want. Personally I ere on the simple side (KISS). I mash my grains in a 19l Coleman Eski for 60 minutes, I sparge the grains two to three times, and I boil the extracted wort for 60 minutes, adding bittering hops at the start of the boil, finishing hops towards the end, and then create a whirlpool with a spoon. I use a plate chiller to cool the wort as it transfers to the FV. I add the yeast and put the FV in the temp controlled fridge. Whether the grains have sachified or sccrifried or the hops have isomesmerised is any body's guess but the beer tastes great.

On the other hand if the level of enjoyment you get from the hobby is enhanced by studying the technical side of brewing then hop hats off to you.

Cheers & Beers

Scottie

Rough as Guts Brewing

[Otto Von Blotto]

I like both aspects. I like to keep my brewing simple so I don't use full step mashing (though I do incorporate a step at 72 before the mash out), and doing BIAB in an urn without a sparge step. Not that any of those things are difficult but they do add time to the process.

I also enjoy the science of it all. I'm not just happy knowing what to do, I want to know why I'm doing it as well, it gives me more satisfaction if there's a good reason behind the effort put in. It's this interest that has led to me adopting practices generally accepted by the brewing world to be best practices, or at least as best as I can do at home. I'm also open to changing my processes if the science changes (real science that is, not brulosophy etc.). Why boil for at least an hour? Why keep the hot break out of the fermenter? Why pitch yeast at a certain rate? Why store lagers cold for ages before drinking them? Because doing these things makes better beer, and my beers have never been better. I'm always looking at ways to improve further, and currently that involves experimenting with creating water profiles from scratch for every batch using distilled water. It'll be easier to match the water to the style than guessing what the tap water profile is.

Cheers

Kelsey

[Beer Baron]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

(real science that is, not brulosophy etc.). 

Whhaaatttt!!!!!!!

Brulosophy isn’t real science???

I have changed all my brewing techniques based off the results from the exbeeriments........

Beer Baron

[King Ruddager]

If you guys have been doing full extract then you have nothing to fear in taking the plunge into AG.

There's some stuff to learn, for sure, but you can learn it as you go and you don't need to know it all to get started. I'm starting to dapple with water experiments YEARS down the track, for example.

Watch a few of my BIAB brew day videos - part of the reason I started making them was to take all the technical nonsense away and show how fun and easy it can be. 

[porschemad911]

Easiest way to start is BIAB with the full volume of brewing liquor (ie no sparge)... So like what Kelsey does. Less process steps mean less can go wrong, plus a time saver.

In my experience BIAB makes a bit of a mess though, which is why I personally prefer 3V. I've tried a few methods and settled on a 90 minute no-sparge mash (I've observed up to 10% additional extract over a 60 minute mash) and a 60 minute boil.

I have a 38l mash tun for my 11l fermenter volume batches (16.5l pre boil volume). This lets me mash big beers without sparging and easily do fun stuff like partigyle. Nothing wrong with sparging of course, I just like the simplicity of one run-off and then boil.

But for example Scottie has a mash tun half the size for a fermenter volume twice the size and sparges to get his pre boil volume, so there's plenty of ways to do things. 

Cheers, 

John 

[Otto Von Blotto]

6 hours ago, Beer Baron said:

Whhaaatttt!!!!!!!

Brulosophy isn’t real science???

I have changed all my brewing techniques based off the results from the exbeeriments........

Beer Baron

You mean the results that apparently show that it doesn't matter how you brew, what techniques you use, or how many dodgy shortcuts you take, none of it has any effect on the beer at all?

Brulosophy is to brewing what pseudoscience is to medicine. Supposedly disproving decades of scientific research with ~20 tasters in a California garage. I'll stick with the proper research

[Scottie]

5 hours ago, porschemad911 said:

Easiest way to start is BIAB with the full volume of brewing liquor (ie no sparge)... So like what Kelsey does. Less process steps mean less can go wrong, plus a time saver.

In my experience BIAB makes a bit of a mess though, which is why I personally prefer 3V. I've tried a few methods and settled on a 90 minute no-sparge mash (I've observed up to 10% additional extract over a 60 minute mash) and a 60 minute boil.

I have a 38l mash tun for my 11l fermenter volume batches (16.5l pre boil volume). This lets me mash big beers without sparging and easily do fun stuff like partigyle. Nothing wrong with sparging of course, I just like the simplicity of one run-off and then boil.

But for example Scottie has a mash tun half the size for a fermenter volume twice the size and sparges to get his pre boil volume, so there's plenty of ways to do things. 

Cheers, 

John 

Hey John

I have only done a few 90 minutes mashes, however these led to better total efficiency for me. I have tried adding Acidulated Malt, differing levels of Calcium and finer crushes on my Grain Mill yet I continue to hover around 70%. I am not too fussed apart from the fact that you point out, my mash tun is small so efficiency for me isn't about the cost of extra grain its about the head room to fit in in. A change to all 90 minutes mashes is on so that I can evaluate the results over the next 1/2 dozen brews.

 

Cheers & Beers

Scottie

Valley Brew

[Scottie]

With a working career that has relied on understanding technical and scientific theory I enjoy following the process that has be deigned and understood by the Brewing Scientists. Its a bit like the carpenter who hasn't got the desire to make modifications or repairs to his own house, or the mechanic who really isn't into building hot rods.

My next brew calls for Burton on Trent water profiling which will be my most complex yet with my largest amount of mineral additions yet. I trust it will work.

Keep up the good work Kelsey, Brewers like you make my hobby easy and successful.

 

Cheers

[Otto Von Blotto]

Thanks Scottie, it's nice to know others can get some use out of all the scientific stuff.  Putting it into practice is easy, my brew days are always fun and I don't think about the scientific side while doing them, I just know from researching it that what I'm doing is the best path to great beer. 

70% isn't a bad efficiency, and if it's consistent then that's even better. Makes recipe design easy. Mine hovers around 75% most of the time. I do 90 minute mashes as well though split up into two rests. The 72°C rest after the main sacch rest is designed to improve head retention. Seems to work from my experience using it. I used to just do 90min at sacch temps so my efficiency hasn't really changed. 

[The Captain!!]

9 hours ago, King Ruddager said:

If you guys have been doing full extract then you have nothing to fear in taking the plunge into AG.

There's some stuff to learn, for sure, but you can learn it as you go and you don't need to know it all to get started. I'm starting to dapple with water experiments YEARS down the track, for example.

Watch a few of my BIAB brew day videos - part of the reason I started making them was to take all the technical nonsense away and show how fun and easy it can be. 

Ruddy, You were a big influence in me going to all grain so quickly. After watching your no nonsense, non scientific, quirky way to brew. 

I was like, well if this relaxed fella who doesn’t seem to care much can brew all grain, I can. Ha ha 

And if that was your intent Ruddy, I tip my hat to ya.

I watch each and every one of your vids and have shared to others who are making the step from craft beer to homemade craft beer just how easy it is.

Thanks Ruddy

Captain

[Hairy]

Kelsey, I think I have seen you on TV before.

[The Captain!!]

Scottie I was in a career that was very contract management and a technically demanding job. 

Now that I have chosen a different career path my stress levels have decreased and I’m enjoying the technical side of my brewing. I’m a very process driven person and have changed my processes to make better beer. Only changing if the better beer/time/space/cost ratios are in favour.

My next hurdle is water. 

Good luck with your burton on Trent profile.

Captain

[Hairy]

13 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

My next hurdle is water. 

Like this?

[King Ruddager]

42 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

I was like, well if this relaxed fella who doesn’t seem to care much can brew all grain, I can. Ha ha 

And if that was your intent Ruddy, I tip my hat to ya.

That, plus I got super bored watching all these old guys in cardigans ramble on about how they were going to do a wheat beer but they left the iron on and then Susie called so now they're thinking of going out and getting a new immersion chiller and some bananas and so maybe they'll grind up that amber malt they've had lying around (and boy is it windy today) and make a pale instead.

[Worthog]

14 hours ago, Gully85 said:

I need to read this book.....

Gully

Cheers..... You'll be leaving the light on when you go to bed.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/malt-extract-and-beer-kits/beer-kit-woes