Henry1525229471 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Thanks for the reply, I have checked my hydrometer and it seems to be almost spot on,The mash temp was 72 added the grain it dropped to 68 where I kept it for an hour mashed out at 75 for 15 mins sparged to 29 ltr sparge water 75 boiled for an hour then cooled and bunged it in the fridge rehydrated the yeast and added at22. I used a refractometer to check the OG 1044 and will use the hydro for the SG . The smash temp was all over the shop I was getting a bit flustered and didn't keep aclose eye on it I expected problems and the final result will be RS I expect. But I thought I might have been almost on the money with the last one. The first entry was the xxxx clone but not a clone the second entry was the smash I hope I have got it in some order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Mash temp of 68 shouldn't be the issue then, unless your thermometer isn't accurate. If it mashed 2-3 degrees higher than 68 then it could finish that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly74 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Thermometer accuracy could well be the issue. I find I get pretty average attenuation above 65C mash myself, using a calibrated thermometer. But that could just be the variances of my own system. But I've also found 2-3C variance in thermometer readings from the various thermometers I've tried. Ultimately though, they're just arbitrary numbers - as long as you measure consistently using the same devices (volume, temp,gravity,etc) you can adjust your target numbers based on your own equipment and dial it in based on experience. Unfortunately it's something you only work out by brewing and trialling. Good records are a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry1525229471 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Wobbly74 said: Thermometer accuracy could well be the issue. I find I get pretty average attenuation above 65C mash myself, using a calibrated thermometer. But that could just be the variances of my own system. But I've also found 2-3C variance in thermometer readings from the various thermometers I've tried. Ultimately though, they're just arbitrary numbers - as long as you measure consistently using the same devices (volume, temp,gravity,etc) you can adjust your target numbers based on your own equipment and dial it in based on experience. Unfortunately it's something you only work out by brewing and trialling. Good records are a must. I have been going off the temps on the robobrew it,s only the second time I have used it and haven't double checked the temps with another thermometer so I will double check next brew . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I have heard that the in built thermometers on the Robobrews aren't that great. I'd be investing in a good quality one for brewing purposes. A decent laboratory glass thermometer is also a useful item as it can be used to calibrate other thermometers in the brewery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Hi all, Done my 6th brew on the Robo last week, and my efficiency seems to settling in at the 80% mark (I think)! I am using the Grainfather strike and sparge water formulas, on brew day. I am stirring the grains a few times during the mash, think this helps a lot. On my first brew think the grain was too compacted affecting the conversion and re-circulation / sparge. Havent had much success with the whirlpool, just leave the wort to settle before chilling seems to be doing OK keeping the trub out. Still get a small amount of protein flying around the FV on the first day of fermenting (nothing like my first attempt though). One thing with Beersmith, I haven't been taking a pre-boil gravity reading, only post boil. How important is it to take a pre-boil reading? Enjoying the AG brewing, getting used to the Robo now, I like seeing how slightly changing a recipe effects a brew at the other end. This latest IPA has hardly any crystal / caramalt, so I am interested how that compares with a similar brew with about 250g of cararye in it. Hope it's not too bitter, like a bit of malt sweetness in a big IPA. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 1 hour ago, James Lao said: How important is it to take a pre-boil reading? It isn't very important if you regularly hit your numbers. It is useful if you wish to adjust the length of the boil to hit the required post boil gravity but I don't bother. I brew for myself so I just run with whatever I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I always take a pre boil gravity reading. It helps calculate the mash efficiency. If you're missing the OG regularly, measuring the pre boil gravity helps determine where in the brewing process the problem lies, as it's most likely problems with the mash. Depending on how much you worry about hitting numbers it can be useful for adjusting recipes on the fly (more or less bitterness for example), adjusting boil times or deciding whether or not to top up the wort with dry malt and leave the hops as is if the SG is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 6 hours ago, James Lao said: Hi all, Done my 6th brew on the Robo last week, and my efficiency seems to settling in at the 80% mark (I think)! I think I got over 80% once using all malt when doing a midstrength. Only other times is when doing batches with a cereal mash (Rice). Rice goes upwards of 95% efficiency. I am using the Grainfather strike and sparge water formulas, on brew day. I am stirring the grains a few times during the mash, think this helps a lot. It is a must to do this especially with anything over 4kg in the malt pipe. On my first brew think the grain was too compacted affecting the conversion and re-circulation / sparge. As per above. Havent had much success with the whirlpool, just leave the wort to settle before chilling seems to be doing OK keeping the trub out. You can do this but you will keep even more out when doing a whirlpool. Still get a small amount of protein flying around the FV on the first day of fermenting (nothing like my first attempt though). One thing with Beersmith, I haven't been taking a pre-boil gravity reading, only post boil. How important is it to take a pre-boil reading? I still take it. Lets me know about where I am in the scheme of things. Enjoying the AG brewing, getting used to the Robo now, I like seeing how slightly changing a recipe effects a brew at the other end. This latest IPA has hardly any crystal / caramalt, so I am interested how that compares with a similar brew with about 250g of cararye in it. Hope it's not too bitter, like a bit of malt sweetness in a big IPA. Cheers James Hi James and others.. Just some notes in blue from my robobrew experience and some extra notes below 1. As per the thread. Don't take the temp as gospel. Mine is 2c out (67 on the reading is actually 65) confirmed by 2 other thermometers. 2. Need recirculation otherwise the temp from top to bottom of the unit may vary by more than 5c. This is a problem for my Gen 1 system and as such I use a pump but later versions have it inbuilt. Not sure how that works. 3. Forget big grain bills. If your looking to do a 10% ABV beer up to 23L then expect a mid 50's efficiency. The system just cannot handle much over 6kg of grain. I do 11L batches for big beers and get mid 70's on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 Cheers for the replies. Think I might take an SG after mashing next time round. Will have another go at whirl pooling next time as well. Maybe I could get the re-circ pump on while IC is in and once pitching temps are reached, remove IC, get whirlpool happening with the re-circ pump still on, then stop the pump and wait for 10-15 mins for all the protein floaties to settle? Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Interesting how the different systems work. I used to stir the mash in my urn BIAB set up, then stopped and efficiency didn't change. I stir it now when increasing temp, mainly to get a more accurate reading, efficiency still doesn't change. About the only thing that does change it is the size of the grain bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 53 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Interesting how the different systems work. I used to stir the mash in my urn BIAB set up, then stopped and efficiency didn't change. I stir it now when increasing temp, mainly to get a more accurate reading, efficiency still doesn't change. About the only thing that does change it is the size of the grain bill. My theory behind that would be the robobrew is taller and less wide than the crown urn. Also the malt pipe concentrates the grain even more. If it was a fatter unit i think it would solve a few issues actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Yeah, I've seen that theory around before and it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 Stirring the grains was kind of like a penny drop moment for me as before I would have the pump on and barely crack the valve open and the wort was not filtering through the grain cos it was too compact. If I opened the valve up to get a bit of decent flow it would just end up filling the malt pipe and going down the overflow. The last 2 brews have been stirring and I have a lot more flow with the valve about 1/4 open - heaps of wort re-circulating and it still filters through the grain without reaching the overflow pipe. Also my sparges take 15-20mins now instead of 45mins. By the way my brew days take around 7 hours start to finish - little bit of prep before mashing in at around 9am and all packed up by 3.30pm. Happy days Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergy1987 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 7 hours just seems so long to put down a brew and is what stops me from going to All Grain - As much as I want to, I just don't know how keen I am to sit around for 7 hours watching water boil. Although I suppose with the Robobrew once you have mashed you can go do other things while it gets up to temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, Fergy1987 said: 7 hours just seems so long to put down a brew and is what stops me from going to All Grain - As much as I want to, I just don't know how keen I am to sit around for 7 hours watching water boil. Although I suppose with the Robobrew once you have mashed you can go do other things while it gets up to temp. My brew day tends to take about 4.5 hours. And yes, you can do other things during the mash and boil. Cleaning as you go reduces time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, James Lao said: Stirring the grains was kind of like a penny drop moment for me as before I would have the pump on and barely crack the valve open and the wort was not filtering through the grain cos it was too compact. If I opened the valve up to get a bit of decent flow it would just end up filling the malt pipe and going down the overflow. The last 2 brews have been stirring and I have a lot more flow with the valve about 1/4 open - heaps of wort re-circulating and it still filters through the grain without reaching the overflow pipe. Also my sparges take 15-20mins now instead of 45mins. By the way my brew days take around 7 hours start to finish - little bit of prep before mashing in at around 9am and all packed up by 3.30pm. Happy days Cheers James 7 Hours???? If I'm doing a 60 min mash and 60 min boil and a no chill im usually done including cleaning in a little under 4.. Lagers where I do a longer mash and boil and also fast chill can be up to 5.5.. Yeah I am the same. Only a slow flow and that allows it to filter through. Every 15 or 20 mins I open the tap full bore and stir up the grain bed with the spoon. How much sparge water are you using james? I "fast" sparge which is a 2L kettle up to my mash out temp of 75c and once I pull the malt pipe out to drain and the water is almost to the top of the grain I dump in the kettle water and let it drain. That gets me to an average 75% efficiency. I can understand now that you will get near 80 doing a longer more thorough sparge but I couldn't be arsed doing that. What I do do though is once the pipe is drained I put it in a bucket and do another sparge with 2L. What I do with that is bottle it and put it in the fridge and use it for upcoming starters.. It gives me about 1028 SG wort to which I add some more LDME. Has saved me a bomb on LDME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 7 hours is from getting the Robo out the spare room, giving it a quick rinse and filling- to putting it back away in the spare room, with all other associated gear cleaned and packed away. I do clean as I go, but think the immersion chiller does add a fair bit of time, with running hoses out etc., but the no chill method does not suit me. I am a bit of a clean freak, so I even hose down and scrub the pavers on the patio to avoid the ants etc., getting the taste for grain like I have! I usually use about 15 litres of sparge water, heated in a big pot on the Barbie gas burner and pour this in and stop once there is no more wort dripping through. Then I move the malt pipe to a big stainless fish and usually there is maybe 500 ml extra drained out. Probably will get quicker but I am happy with this at the moment. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Fergy1987 said: 7 hours just seems so long to put down a brew and is what stops me from going to All Grain - As much as I want to, I just don't know how keen I am to sit around for 7 hours watching water boil. Although I suppose with the Robobrew once you have mashed you can go do other things while it gets up to temp. Mine aren't 7 hours either, although I suppose they could be if I actually cleaned everything at the end of the brew day. I clean as I go as well, after mash in the mill is cleaned and left to drip dry and the grain buckets put away. During the mash I do whatever, some dishes, hang the clothes out, relax with a beer or whatever. I have 70 minutes* and there's no need to stand there watching it like a hawk. Same with the boil, once the boil starts I usually have an hour before any hop additions go in unless I'm doing a 60 min addition, so I clean out the grain bag and anything else I won't need again once that starts, and then all I have to is relax and get the cube, late hop additions and Brewbrite ready. Generally I fill the urn about 8-8.30 and begin heating the water to a few degrees below my target strike temp while I have brekky, so it just sits there until I'm ready at which point I bump it up to the target temp. Mash in around 9-9.30 and usually all cubed and urn put away by 2.30, and that's with a 90+ minute mash and 75 minute boil. Lagers tend to be longer because I boil them for almost 2 hours (110 minutes). Since motivation to clean by that stage is pretty much nil, I either give the urn a rinse to get most of the rubbish out, or simply leave it until the next morning and do a full clean on it then. That process adds another 30-45 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 hours ago, James Lao said: I do clean as I go, but think the immersion chiller does add a fair bit of time, with running hoses out etc., but the no chill method does not suit me. Any reason no chill doesn't suit? It does save a crapload of time and water too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 The 7 hours also includes chilling the wort and pitching the yeast, cleaning the Erlenmeyer flask etc By the end of it there is no evidence a brew day has been done except a full FV in the fridge with the yeast getting busy.! Swings and roundabouts really, probably will get it down to around 6 hours, but I am happy with my processes at the moment. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy81 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Fergy1987 said: 7 hours just seems so long to put down a brew and is what stops me from going to All Grain - As much as I want to, I just don't know how keen I am to sit around for 7 hours watching water boil. Although I suppose with the Robobrew once you have mashed you can go do other things while it gets up to temp. It put me off too Fergy but i just did my first ever AG and all up it took 4.5 hours fully cleaned up + 30 minutes the day before for a bit of prep so call it 5 hours, like i said though This was my first attempt so i'm thinking i can reduce this a fair bit going forward. Cheers, Hoppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 No chill is not a good idea for me with a bit of temperamental back. I have set up my brewery with minimum lifting so the idea of picking up 23 litres of chilled wort the next day and pouring into the FV doesn’t sound too appealing! At the minute, once the wort is chilled, I use the pump to transfer to the FV, which is on a trolley dolly and wheeled to the FV, then lifted in. My second brew and FV I put on 2 milk crates on the trolley so when moved to the fridge it is the perfect height to slide onto the top fridge shelf (2 x FVs in the fridge). If I even complain about a sore back after brew day the missus will defo be tryin to kibosh this brewing lark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lao Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 4.5 hours is that no chilling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy81 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 If you are referring to me James, no i chilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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