bobjones Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm new here but a long time lurker, so hi! I've made countless Coopers kits but I am looking to do something with a rather extreme ABV. Or at least go as high as a Coopers kit can go. My usual batch is 1 can Coopers IPA, 1kg LDME, 1kg Dextrose. I choose a hop and I do a boil with 500 grams of the LDME to make a single hop batch; I get 6.5%. They have always been incredible. So, I am thinking to jack this up to 1kg LDME and 1.5kg dextrose. While I am at it... what would happen if I chucked in 2kg of dextrose instead! I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with relatively extreme ABV amounts using LDME and dextrose and they know limits I shouldn't cross. Keeping costs down and using one packet of included Cooper's yeast. Thanks for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticSoup Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'd increase the amount of malt in your recipe for a higher ABV, rather than increasing the dextrose. You'll get a better beer this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Another thing I'd suggest is using way more than one 7g pack of yeast with that many fermentables in it. And agreed, more malt, less dextrose = better beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticSoup Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Forgot to mention extra yeast, you'll definitely need it. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobjones Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 I recently moved to Singapore and ingredients are EXPENSIVE! The 1kg of LDME gives me the flavour and the dextrose gives me the grunt. Looking to see how much dextrose I could add to the 1kg of LDME I am already adding. All things being equal... (and I know they are not)... to simplify the question... How many kg of extra fermentables can you add to a coopers kit? I add 2kg total right now and I have never had a problem. Has anyone tried 2.5kg or 3kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 G'day bobjones, you could add as much as you wanted assuming you pitch enough yeast to ferment it out and they have a high enough tolerance to the alcohol they will produce. If you go with a brew volume of 23 litres, a Coopers IPA kit + 1.5kg LDM + 1.5kg dextrose will only give you an O.G. of about 1.070 (high, but not that high). Assuming 75% attenuation that will give you about 8.1% ABV bottled. What style of beer are you aiming to brew? Imperial IPA? Barleywine? Russian Imperial Stout? Belgian Strong? For example, a barleywine could have an O.G. of up to 1.100, so you could add a lot more fermentables if you wanted. The IPA kit + 2.5kg LDM + 2.5kg dextrose would give you an O.G. of about 1.102 in a 23 litre brew, resulting in about 11.7% ABV bottled if you get 75% attenuation. Wouldn't taste like a barleywine though - not enough malt. You will not get a good result with one pack of Coopers yeast for either of these unless you make a starter to build up the cell count significantly first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi bob & welcome to the forum. As Otto Von Blotto has already mentioned, using a lot of dextrose/sugar does thin beer flavour, & I agree with him that increasing it to the levels you are contemplating is probably not a good idea for best results. By the same token, I am hearing what you are saying about ingredients being expensive, & your want to increase ABV. Looking at your current recipe (that you say you enjoy) I'd guess it's brewed to 23 litres to achieve the 6.5%ABV you quoted? As an alternative to throwing a heap of dextrose/sugar at it to hit the ABV levels you want, you can actually reduce the volume of the brew. This will intensify the flavours of the kit, increase ABV, & allow you to add a smaller amount of dextrose/sugar to your brew without thinning the overall beer flavour. You will need some more yeast on top of the kit yeast though because of the increased OG of the brew. If money is tight, you can "step up" the kit yeast by making a "starter" to increase your cell count to an adequate level to ferment out the brew. Might I suggest you give this a try... Coopers IPA 1.7kg LDME 1kg Dextrose 1.25kg Brewed to 21 litres. 2 x kit yeast or step up 1 x kit yeast via a starter. That should produce a beer around 7.5 - 8.0%. I hope that helps. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Isn't there an issue with the Coopers ale yeast in worts with an SG of 1.100 and upwards? I seem to recall PB2 mentioning something about the yeast walls rupturing at those levels (probably one of the many RIS threads)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Not sure Gibbo, but Porschemad911 did mention the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. Yeast have a certain tolerance to alcohol and above that level it becomes a toxic environment for the yeast. You can buy yeast that have a high tolerance to alcohol. If bobjones is just looking for rocket fuel, then just increase the dex. It might not taste very good but it will give you a buzz. If you want a balanced beer with a nice flavour then do a search for some extract Barleywine recipes. Like this: BYO - Barleywine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitterjohn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I recently moved to Singapore and ingredients are EXPENSIVE! The 1kg of LDME gives me the flavour and the dextrose gives me the grunt. Looking to see how much dextrose I could add to the 1kg of LDME I am already adding. All things being equal... (and I know they are not)... to simplify the question... How many kg of extra fermentables can you add to a coopers kit? I add 2kg total right now and I have never had a problem. Has anyone tried 2.5kg or 3kg? I am drinking this now :- Coopers Brewmaster I.P.A. = 25 Ltrs 1 x 1.7kg Coopers I.P.A. 1kg Spraymalt Light (DME) 500g Spraymalt Hopped Light (DME) 500g Spraymalt Medium (DME) 250g Body Bru (maltodextrin) 260g Demerara Sugar Rehydrated 1 Nottingham Beer Yeast + Sprinkled 1 x kit Yeast 6Ltrs Tap Water + 9 x 2Ltrs Bottled Water Added Harris Beer Brite & Gelatine Finnings Primed Barrel with 100g White T & L Sugar O.G. = 1.060 @ 27C = 1.062 (corrected) F.G. = 1.010 @ 23C = 1.011 (corrected) ABV = 7.2% Still a bit cloudy (my fault! Didn`t add the 260g of Demerara till day 5 in FV) and green but it tastes beautiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Try this its strong great tasting beer! its fantastic.... Nice Dark Burgundy Red ale, Its similar colour to hop gobbler... I like it a lot... packed full of flavour If you don't like crystal then you don't like English Ales its a ripper 1.7 kg Coopers OS Real Ale Can 1.625kg LDM 250g Dextrose 250g Dark Crystal 250-300 EBC 250g light Crystal 60-90 125g Choc Malt 500-800 EBC 50g Roast barley 25g Fuggles @ 15 mins 25g Fuggles @ 2min + steep Rehydrated 3x Kit yeasts pitched @ 22 brew 24.5 litres 7.2% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Another way to increase ABV is to decrease the amount of water, so that your brew effectively becomes more concentrated. This also increases the bitterness though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I have read that as you head up to very high gravity worts, over 1.100, the amount of sugar in the wort inhibits it's ability to carry oxygen, even if you aerate with pure 02 from a bottle. This means that the yeast will have a very difficult time reproducing, so you need to start with a massive population as a result. Another option is to start with less yeast into a lower gravity, let the yeast develop and propagate and start fermentation for a couple of days, after which you then pour in more fermentables, being dissolved Dex or LDME, ideally having been boiled for a few mins, then cooled to pretty much the same temp as the wort and let the healthy yeast population chug through their new food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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