Fastest and most efficient way to chill wort

[Aussiekraut]

We're moving house next week and the new place doesn't have a money grave, aka pool, to run off the chiller water. I could fill up a few large bins but then what? I don't want to go back into cubing either, so I am looking for an efficient way to chill beer. From what I gather, a counter-flow chiller is the way to go but that also requires an external pump, since I can't use the recirculation pump due to a lack of a filter and clogging issues. How efficient is a counterflow chiller? How long will it take to chill a whole batch down compared to an immersion chiller and what might the water usage be? Are there any better ways to chill short of a glycol chiller?

 

[kmar92]

@Aussiekraut I use a fairly inexpensive counter-flow chiller that seems to work pretty well. I can usually cool down 23l wort from boiling down to tap water temperature in about 20-30 mins with just a really slow flow of tap water. I have no idea of how much water that would be, guessing in the vicinity of 100l, I don't know just a guess. It is also very much dependent on the water temperature of the water supply so obviously works better in winter. I use the recirculation pump on my Nano BIAB system. The waste water goes either into plant watering or into the pool so it is not a total loss.

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

We're moving house next week and the new place doesn't have a money grave, aka pool, to run off the chiller water. I could fill up a few large bins but then what? I don't want to go back into cubing either, so I am looking for an efficient way to chill beer. From what I gather, a counter-flow chiller is the way to go but that also requires an external pump, since I can't use the recirculation pump due to a lack of a filter and clogging issues. How efficient is a counterflow chiller? How long will it take to chill a whole batch down compared to an immersion chiller and what might the water usage be? Are there any better ways to chill short of a glycol chiller?

 

Hey AK, My Grainfather has a counterflow chiller.  It works pretty well.  Tap water runs through it at about 2 litres/minute.  I collect around 60-70 litres to cool and transfer approx 23 litres to the FV.  I capture the water in a few cubes.  the CFC cools 25 litres of wort from boiling down to steeping temps of 75-80°C in under 5 minutes.  It transfers the wort to the FV in around half an hour.

Its advantage is that within 5-10 minutes, the wort temperature coming out of the CFC is at pitching temperature.  So you can start transferring to the FV way before the wort in the kettle is cooled (in fact it probably never gets below 50°C).  I have never used one, but I guess with an immersion chiller, it needs to stay in the wort in the kettle until the whole volume of wort is at pitching temperature.

Plate chillers are supposed to be very efficient too.  I have never used one.  Similarly to a CFC, the wort comes out at pitching temperature.

 

[Pezzza]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:47 PM, Aussiekraut said:

Are there any better ways to chill short of a glycol chiller?

Thanks everyone for the above @Shamus O'Sean and @kmar92 I think when I hafta move - same problem - but I am thinking I am going to have to just cop it and get food grade cubes (not that I like putting hot wort into plazzi) and just do it that way... Glycol Chillers are cool but then (despite the expense) have a whole heap of plumbing and cleaning issues as well I reckon..

Anyway... great discussion 

[Classic Brewing Co]

10 hours ago, Pezzza said:

Thanks everyone for the above @Shamus O'Sean and @kmar92 I think when I hafta move - same problem - but I am thinking I am going to have to just cop it and get food grade cubes (not that I like putting hot wort into plazzi) and just do it that way... Glycol Chillers are cool but then (despite the expense) have a whole heap of plumbing and cleaning issues as well I reckon..

Anyway... great discussion 

For what it is worth my short experience with cubes has been smooth running, as you know when I first used the Brew Zilla I was appalled at the amount of water wastage with the supplied chiller & quickly switched to cubes. I wouldn't do it any other way now as it is effortless & 100% safe.

I have spoken to Keg Land on this a few times & have been told the entire team of brewer's there all use cubes, in fact they encourage it.

I realise the more expensive models will do the job efficiently, but I am not prepared to waste that much water.

[Aussiekraut]

12 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

For what it is worth my short experience with cubes has been smooth running, as you know when I first used the Brew Zilla I was appalled at the amount of water wastage with the supplied chiller & quickly switched to cubes. I wouldn't do it any other way now as it is effortless & 100% safe.

I have spoken to Keg Land on this a few times & have been told the entire team of brewer's there all use cubes, in fact they encourage it.

I realise the more expensive models will do the job efficiently, but I am not prepared to waste that much water.

My problem with cubes is a simple one. When I open the cube and try to pour, it comes out in vigorous spurts and makes a helluva mess. My back isn't designed to lift and hold them properly. I tried to be clever once and took the bung out and replaced it with a tap, thinking I can just open the tap and it flows freely. While the idea is good and works, hot wort makes the plastic of the cube softer and the tap tends to leak and it looks like it is about to pop out of the container. I will however get myself some made for purpose cubes as a stand-by. 

A glycol chiller would be nice but they cost well over 2 grand and that's just a little more than what I am willing to spend.

[kmar92]

@Aussiekraut get 1 of these, they work very well.

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

My problem with cubes is a simple one. When I open the cube and try to pour, it comes out in vigorous spurts and makes a helluva mess. My back isn't designed to lift and hold them properly. I tried to be clever once and took the bung out and replaced it with a tap, thinking I can just open the tap and it flows freely. While the idea is good and works, hot wort makes the plastic of the cube softer and the tap tends to leak and it looks like it is about to pop out of the container. I will however get myself some made for purpose cubes as a stand-by. 

A glycol chiller would be nice but they cost well over 2 grand and that's just a little more than what I am willing to spend.

AK I bought one of these from KL & it works a treat. I watched a video of Gash demonstrating transferring the hot wort & also using the siphon, I have had a smooth run with both.

https://www.kegland.com.au/304-stainless-steel-auto-siphon-racking-cane-easy-jiggler.html

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

@Aussiekraut get 1 of these, they work very well.

I agree, I have those as well.

[ozdevil]

now the immersion chiller  such that comes with the brewzilla's    there is 2 ways you can use these  immersion chillers

1 you place in hot wort in the kettle   and run your tap water through the immersion chiller  (not so efficient)

2 you place  the Immersion chiller in a big blue tub like an eski  fill with some water and through in ice as well around the immersion chiller
and run the wort  through the immersion chiller  (there obviously is some water wastage but not as much as option 1) also will need a pump if not using a recirculation pump


if i  am worried about to much water wastage   i would go  option 2


but  i use the  CFC  the stainless steel colossus  thats advertised on kegland and works well   and quick    but  there is wastage  with water
but like shamus   fill the cubes up  and can be reused else where  around the home





 

[Tricky Micky]

20 hours ago, kmar92 said:

@Aussiekraut get 1 of these, they work very well.

Best thing ever.

[iBooz2]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:10 PM, kmar92 said:

@Aussiekraut get 1 of these, they work very well.

I have few of those.  The part that fails on them is the plastic tongue that separates the wort outflow from the air inflow which comes lose and ends up in your FV without you knowing about it.  If you look up the red spout you will see the white plastic separator.  Its the bit that becomes detached when they are glugging and gurgling out the wort.  No big deal but when the separator drops out, flow becomes very very slow so my tip is to get a couple of these cap taps at least to cover yourself from any failure.

Edited December 14, 2022 by iBooz2

[Popo the Reprobate]

I know you are after a cooling solution but If you can't find a cooling option you like, another couple of options for cubing are:

Smaller cubes. I use 15 litre cubes. They probably hold between 16 and 17 litres. The difference isn't huge, but being a bit smaller, they are easier to pour. You won't get a full keg out of these, though.

I did also use some 10 litre cubes for a while. They are significantly easier to pour - and quickly cool if you want to. 

You can always leave the bung in the bigger cubes for filling and storage. When it comes time to transfer, lay the cube on it's back with the bung facing up. Sanitise everything, undo the bung, put in the tap and tilt back to upright. Pour from tap as usual.

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, Popo the Degenerate said:

You can always leave the bung in the bigger cubes for filling and storage. When it comes time to transfer, lay the cube on it's back with the bung facing up. Sanitise everything, undo the bung, put in the tap and tilt back to upright. Pour from tap as usual.

That's what I do with the tap-in-a-cap's.  Store the cube with the regular cap.  But come fermenting day, sanitise the tap-in-a-cap and around the cube opening.  Lie the cube on its back.  Undo the standard cap, sanitise again, fit the tap-in-a-cap, stand the cube up and you are ready to pour.

[Aussiekraut]

Until I have sorted out something, I am going back to cubing. I have two 20l cubes on order, with a tap lid for each. Once everything is set up and all, I'll see how I go with the chilling. Probably when I finally get myself a BZ 4.0 or something. I'm just so slack and with the move, I have so much to do, I cannot even brew on the w/e yet. Hopefully boxing day.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

Until I have sorted out something, I am going back to cubing. I have two 20l cubes on order, with a tap lid for each. Once everything is set up and all, I'll see how I go with the chilling. Probably when I finally get myself a BZ 4.0 or something. I'm just so slack and with the move, I have so much to do, I cannot even brew on the w/e yet. Hopefully boxing day.

you probably already said something about not wanting to pump. Can't you use an eskie with cold water even ice blocks in water to circulate so no wastage?

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Until I have sorted out something, I am going back to cubing. I have two 20l cubes on order, with a tap lid for each. Once everything is set up and all, I'll see how I go with the chilling. Probably when I finally get myself a BZ 4.0 or something. I'm just so slack and with the move, I have so much to do, I cannot even brew on the w/e yet. Hopefully boxing day.

AK cubes are the way to go IMO, it seems a lot of brewers are using them with great success, including me a few times.

[Popo the Reprobate]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:29 AM, Shamus O'Sean said:

That's what I do with the tap-in-a-cap's

They look like a good idea.