Late dry hop

[stquinto]

G’day fellow brewers,

I’ve got an English Bitter AG brew started 10 days ago (actually Black Sheep ale but it’s basically bitter). Is it too late to dry hop? I’m going to bottle it and it’ll probably be a keeper. I’ve been disappointed with other bitters that ended up just “malty” after a while because of the hop fade (actually a but sickly even). I’m pretty sure fermentation is over but wondered if I could dry hop either commando, with a tea, or in a sock for maybe 4 days, then put some finings in for another 3 before bottling. 
Anyone tried dry hopping this late?

I’d rather start with an IPA and end up with a bitter than to go from a bitter to some malty p*ss…

Cheers!

 

[Pickles Jones]

1 hour ago, stquinto said:

but wondered if I could dry hop either commando, with a tea, or in a sock for maybe 4 days, then put some finings in for another 3 before bottling. 
Anyone tried dry hopping this late?

I have used a dry hop or hop tea this late or later.  Worked OK for both. I think it is more governed by length of time you leave the brew in the keg or bottle.

[jamiek86]

know what you mean aging too long I've tipped a lot because of it just make a tea and drink it all in under 6 weeks I say when at prime.

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, jamiek86 said:

know what you mean aging too long I've tipped a lot because of it just make a tea and drink it all in under 6 weeks I say when at prime.

Thanks JamieK, I agree all my dry hop additions aroma and flavor whether late or long in duration are virtually non existent by the 6th week. 

[stquinto]

Cheers for your feedback @Pickles Jones @jamiek86 and @Mickep

I agree, dry hopping tends to fade. Some of the Coopers recipes manage to keep the hops for a while mind. They tend to say so in the recipe notes.

I wonder how the commercial breweries keep the taste in the bottles for a year or more? More hops in the boil I suppose, maybe if they’re pasteurised it locks in the flavour. 
Almost tempted to brew half batches, but it’s a load more work

[jamiek86]

@stquinto wondered same myself about commercial beers that dry hop. You might be on to something with pasteurisation.

[Tone boy]

I tend not to dry hop so much nowadays Sainter, in preference to upping a flameout addition. I think it may last longer but have no evidence to back this up. 
Note I’m a bottler, not a kegger though… but I did get a 1 gallon “ukeg” for Christmas so will be giving that a go soon

[stquinto]

I’m starting to come round to that idea of dropping dry hopping @Tone boy mate, been a bit disappointed with some otherwise enjoyable brews, especially since  I started AG BIAB. 
If I go for a Belgian style, where the hop profile isn’t prevalent, all works fine with keeping the brews to mature. But the English bitters have been disappointing so far because of the hop fade. And these should be pretty straightforward ales to make, not like you have to b*gger around with so many different steps and time like with a lager

[Tricky Micky]

Is there a cut off for when a late dry hop can be added Guys and Gals? My FV's been going 7 days now and my bloody hops still haven't arrived.....Once the yeast has done its thing is it too late to add hops to the wort? 

[Tone boy]

Hey @Mickep Mick  it seems all is not lost. This article below is an experiment where the beer is actually dry hopped during cold crash:

https://brulosophy.com/2016/01/18/dry-hop-temperature-warm-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/

The results noted a milder flavour but also less harsh bitterness.
This finding is also partly supported by the article below which suggests (among other findings) that most of the fruity flavours and aromas are actually extracted in the first 24 hours, and longer times may extract other harsher hop compounds that mask those desirable fruity hop flavours, and increase bitterness:

http://scottjanish.com/a-case-for-short-and-cool-dry-hopping/

interesting reading anyway. The rabbit hole deepens…

[jamiek86]

It makes sense I suppose about the cold crashing I have done similar thing with hop ball in keg. It was less in face but seemed more smooth I suppose. After drinking a the first couple I decided needed more. Dropped a hop ball in keg gave an extra 2 days removed and had a crack, didn't last long after that.

[Pickles Jones]

2 hours ago, Mickep said:

Once the yeast has done its thing is it too late to add hops to the wort? 

What you could try is put half the hops in as dry hop and the other half as a hop tea. 

[ben 10]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:48 AM, stquinto said:

Anyone tried dry hopping this late?

When I dry hopped I would dry hop at cold crash - 2 weeks in. Good results

 

[RDT2]

4 hours ago, disgruntled said:

When I dry hopped I would dry hop at cold crash - 2 weeks in. Good results

 

+1 just release them gently so you don’t introduce oxygen well that’s  what I do! 

[Tricky Micky]

10 hours ago, disgruntled said:

When I dry hopped I would dry hop at cold crash - 2 weeks in. Good results

 

Cheers mate -there's hope for me brew yet. Damn you Aussie Post! Note to self - order sh%*t before you start brewin'

[Dozer71]

No end date on the dry hop. Some breweries wait till fermentation has finished, drop to 14c (for ales obviously), dry hop, then cold crash a day or 2 later. Really, not much difference than what disgruntled is doing.

[iBooz2]

Interesting read in that second link that @Tone boy , posted up, thanks TB.

Dry hopping has an effect on head retention.

    " A paper that looked at how dry hopping impacts head retention found that as the pH increased in beer the head retention decreased.  In the paper, Cascade hops were used for dry hopping at dosage rates of 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 lbs./bbl and measured for foam stability. As the dosage of Cascade increased, foam stability decreased as the pH increased. As a general rule, dry hopping will increase the pH by approximately 0.14 units per pounds of hops used per barrel.⁹ In addition, the longer Cascade hops sat in the beer during dry hopping, the more the foam stability was reduced. This decrease in stability was slight after two days of dry hopping, then accelerated on day three, and continued to slowly decrease until day eight. Ultimately, long term dry hopping can have a negative impact on head retention. Another point in favor of shorter short dry hop times. "