Tyfab Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) Hi all, New to extract, I wanted some advice around a new recipe I came across on Back Rock. Instead of Black Rock Mexican Larger extract wort, I went for: Coopers Mexican Larger 1.7Kg Black Rock Wheat 1.7Kg Dextrose 470g 50g Citra Dry Hop @ 7 days Us-05 Yeast I made 23L Why I chose Citra is because I have 50g left and wanted to use it. OG is at 1050 I expect lemon/tropical flavour which is what I am looking for. Your thoughts on the Recipe? I only brewed 3 days ago. Edited July 8, 2019 by Tyfab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 I always find two cans of liquid malt to be very thick, but I guess the 470g of dextrose should help with that, but that is just my own opinion. Recipe looks fair, I would of done a flameout to get more flavour but should be a good ale along the lines of S&W Pacific Ale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyfab Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Oh sorry, I did a 15 min flameout before adding cold water. I boiled 10L of water. @flameout I added the 2 cans of Malts + Dextrose. I whirlpool thoroughly and let it sit for 15 min then added 13L of cold water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Did you add any hops after adding the two tins and Dex? If you want something like stone and wood use galaxy hops. That's what the real one uses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Yeah it won't be a clone but it should be drinkable. Citra will make it kind of citrusy which should go well with the wheat malt. If you keep the temp down it should be a good drop. I was referring to adding some hops to some boiling malt and water after you turned off the heat, that is a flameout addition. Now that you brewed this one see how it comes out, and if it needs more flavour and aroma look to add a flameout addition. Keep it light if you want a stone wood, they are only like 23 ibu or something. If you wanted that exact flavour from stone and wood I would go with 25g of galaxy at flameout. Then 75g to 100g of galaxy dry hopped. Ben10 also has a very well received S&W Pacific Ale recipe on here somewhere, it is all grain but just sub the grains for extract. Cheers Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 If you did the flameout make sure to cool the wort right after ten minutes, moving the pot from the heat source and actively stirring after adding the hops and adding cool water to get thw temp below 80c asap... or add the galaxy hops after 10 mins of turning off the heat. I say this because S&W is light on IBUs and the Mexican cerveza kit is like 19-23 IBUs, if you brew between 19 and 23 liters, or about someone correct my figures, so you have most your bitterness there, but honestly I think it could handle a few more. By adding the hops after a few minutes it will keep the bitterness down but keep the flavour and aroma. Galaxy can pack a punch. Either way take notes of what you did and ingredients used for all your batches and adjust to fit your tastes. I think there cerveza kit is perfect for adjusting to make almost any beer you can think of. Good luck and let us know how it comes out. Cheers Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyfab Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Thanks for your time guys to answer! Highly valuable for me in my future brew. I am not too keen on high IBU so I am quite ok with around 20 IBU. I cool down the 10L wort with 13L of freezing cold water which turned just below 26C and waited until 22C to pitch. It the wort tasted fine and mild in bitterness and great wheat flavour. I'll keep Citra as dry hop because I don't want to waste it. S&W will be for the next batch i guess! Thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) @Norris!Quick questions regards flame outs and the effect on the brew : 1) do hop teas have the same effect and 2) if adding hops to the dissolved cans and fermentables are they done naked then strained or do you use a sock or ball and is it a stronger affect than the hop tea ... Edited July 8, 2019 by MartyG1525230263 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Hi Marty, I feel that a flameout addition, with the wort at about 1.040 pre boil so about 100g of malt per liter of water,brings more aroma and flavour than a small hop tea with just water but that is my opinion. I also feel that practicing small boils and flameout additions prepares the brewer for understanding full volume boils and how hops affect them with time, total hops and boil volume being the variables. I have done both ways, commando and contained boils with hops and I have not found a huge difference in flavour and aroma, but if I do go commando, I strain out the hops while transferring to the fermenter to help keep the yeast cake clean if I decide to harvest, same for dry hops. I think hop teas are ok, but I feel that better practice is to do boils which will utilise the hops more efficiently while really becoming just part of the overall brewing process, while a tea is a convenient shortcut for boil/flameout additions that sacrifices total efficiency, but is effective and has many post boil uses. Norris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 I have been trying to contain the hops in boils lately to help with clean up and to control the bitterness, flavour and aroma better by being able to remove the hops at anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, Norris! said: I have been trying to contain the hops in boils lately to help with clean up and to control the bitterness, flavour and aroma better by being able to remove the hops at anytime. You can remove the vegetal matter of hops but if you have released the oils into the wort and continue to boil then it should also continue to increase the bitterness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Yeah that makes sense, In my mind I was controlling those elements better but in hindsight, as you say, once the oils are in they are in. Maybe the differences in taste I have picked up is due to the taste of vegetable matter? I am not sure but I have noticed a cleaner taste and the aroma seems less muddled, but that could be from a lot of other factors too like fresher hops, which I figured was due to removing the hops right after flameout. Either way, more than happy to add that bit of information to my knowledge bank, it is pretty empty anyways, thanks Hairy! Cheers Norris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) @Norris! thanks for all of that ... I tend to be of the school of trying to create an easy option to do things .... so how is this ... after flame out pour 500ml of the 1.040 malt solution into a coffee plunger to make the tea ... is that the best of both worlds or just plain stupid thing to do ... or am I just kidding my self and should just put the hops in a hop ball and put in the boil ... which is also easy ... I like the plunger as they squeeze all the hoppy goodness out of the hops ... Edited July 9, 2019 by MartyG1525230263 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) Hey Marty I think if you are already boiling the wort you should just drop the hops and let it go. If you want to ensure the vegetable matter is out of the brew then just contain it. If you like the hop tea method, I would keep using it. I stopped because I was adding my bittering additions and other additions and it didn't fit into the process as well as just doing a flameout addition. For kits and bits already bittered, I might do a 5l boil, at 1.040 OG, for like 15 minutes, and turn off the heat and add my flameout addition...A hop tea would work just as well and might be easier, but I found better aroma and flavour, that lasts from boil/flameout additions over hop teas. I also get astringent flavours from hops and boiled water. So I tend to leave the plain boiling water and hops separate in my brewery. @MartyG1525230263 Edited July 9, 2019 by Norris! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerBrew Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Hey guys, using the cerveza extract kit - how would you make up the wort for boiling? Eg half the can with 10L, with half the sugars? never done this before - just always dumped it all in the FV and stirred it in with a hop tea. cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, PowerBrew said: Hey guys, using the cerveza extract kit - how would you make up the wort for boiling? Eg half the can with 10L, with half the sugars? never done this before - just always dumped it all in the FV and stirred it in with a hop tea. cheers! What other fermentables are you using? I'd boil unhopped extract instead, then add the kit at flameout to dissolve. Cheers, John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellScott Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) As Porschemad said, you generally want to boil unhopped malt extracts and not the hopped ones themselves. This is because boiling the hopped extract can result in extra bitterness and alters the flavour profile. If using dry malt, a good rule is 100g of DME to every 1 litres of water. This will get you close to the desired 1.040 boil gravity. Edited July 22, 2019 by MitchellScott 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerBrew Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 7:33 AM, porschemad911 said: What other fermentables are you using? I'd boil unhopped extract instead, then add the kit at flameout to dissolve. Cheers, John Gday John, I’m open for ideas, but the best Stone & Wood clone I used 1.5kg Wheat Liquid Malt. Ended up with abv of 4.4% so would you guys suggest boiling 10L of Wort using this or another fermentable, then adding the extract at flameout with Galaxy hops? then transfer to FV & add water up to 23L? Dry hop as per normal cheers for the advice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 20 hours ago, PowerBrew said: Gday John, I’m open for ideas, but the best Stone & Wood clone I used 1.5kg Wheat Liquid Malt. Ended up with abv of 4.4% so would you guys suggest boiling 10L of Wort using this or another fermentable, then adding the extract at flameout with Galaxy hops? then transfer to FV & add water up to 23L? Dry hop as per normal cheers for the advice That would work fine as the wheat malt is unhopped/not bittered, and the 1.5kg would be fair for hop utilisation in the boil. I would change the process slightly and do the flame out addition of galaxy without the can of cerveza. Let steep and then after the steep period and during the cooling off time I would add the cerveza kit. This ensures you are not accidently boiling and extracting additional bitterness from the cerveza during the flameout addition. Slight change but it also helps ensure the galaxy gets utilised better due to the wort composition. Should be a nice brew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellScott Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 When I did my Clone and Wood I used 1.5kg LME and 1kg Wheat DME. Did the bittering myself with boiling hops. Mine was a little too bitter in comparison to the original, however still delicious. If/when I re-attempt it, I would probably go something like this: 23L volume 1.5kg Light LME 1.5kg Wheat LME 200g Crystal steeped overnight or at 70C for 30mins. 6L boil with 650g of LME 20g Galaxy @ 20min 15g Galaxy @ 10min 25g Galaxy @ Flameout (80C) 40g Galaxy dry hop. OG - 1.042 FG - 1.010 ABV - 4.5% (bottled) ABV - 4.1% (kegged). IBU - 20ish depending on AA %. EBC - 8.0 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerBrew Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 8/1/2019 at 10:09 AM, MitchellScott said: When I did my Clone and Wood I used 1.5kg LME and 1kg Wheat DME. Did the bittering myself with boiling hops. Mine was a little too bitter in comparison to the original, however still delicious. If/when I re-attempt it, I would probably go something like this: 23L volume 1.5kg Light LME 1.5kg Wheat LME 200g Crystal steeped overnight or at 70C for 30mins. 6L boil with 650g of LME 20g Galaxy @ 20min 15g Galaxy @ 10min 25g Galaxy @ Flameout (80C) 40g Galaxy dry hop. OG - 1.042 FG - 1.010 ABV - 4.5% (bottled) ABV - 4.1% (kegged). IBU - 20ish depending on AA %. EBC - 8.0 Hey @MitchellScott did u end up brewing this? I like the simplicity of your receipe. I’m also gonna try get my hands on some Ella hops to have a go at a garden ale...dunno how to get the abv down though...the garden ale is 3.5%. any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Use fewer fermentables and/or a yeast that doesn't attenuate as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellScott Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 7 hours ago, PowerBrew said: Hey @MitchellScott did u end up brewing this? I like the simplicity of your receipe. I’m also gonna try get my hands on some Ella hops to have a go at a garden ale...dunno how to get the abv down though...the garden ale is 3.5%. any thoughts? Hi mate. I haven't as of yet, and at the moment its probably atleast a few brews away. Have some other brews that I want to do first, however, I think it will produce a nice beer either way so give it a go if you like :). As Otto said, if you want a lower ABV, use less fermentables is the easiest option. Mitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, MitchellScott said: As Otto said, if you want a lower ABV, use less fermentables is the easiest option. Hey @PowerBrew The other option is to up the water to 26L for about 3.5% in the keg or 3.9% carbed in the bottle. I would rather do this than have 100g of LME left over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellScott Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Shamus O'Sean said: Hey @PowerBrew The other option is to up the water to 26L for about 3.5% in the keg or 3.9% carbed in the bottle. I would rather do this than have 100g of LME left over. Just remember if you do this you may need to increase your boil to maintain the same bitterness and also may need to increase hop amounts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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