Otto Von Blotto Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I don't know about them being low enzyme... I hit 93.1% mash efficiency yesterday from a grist that contained about 91% TF MO. Anyway, here's a couple of other pics from yesterday's brew day. After the mash, the bag was lifted up above the urn to drain out for 15-20 minutes. The hop spider in place, and waiting for the wort to come up to boil. This is a false bottom I use in the urn during the mash, so I can apply heat if needed without burning holes in the grain bag. And while the wort comes up to and then boils, the grain bag hangs above this bucket. Any excess wort that drains out of it gets added to the boiling wort with around 30-35 minutes left in the boil. This was taken from another brew day, but transferring the wort to the cube after a 20 min rest after flameout. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Reading this BYO article in full' date=' looks like I should be doing an acid rest at around 45c when using rye or large amounts of wheat. I have had the gumming up problems the author mentions with rye, the acid rest is supposed to break down these gums or glucans. So for me that would be dough in grain using 16L of water to rest at 45c for 15 to 30 mins, add 4L boiling water to jump to protein rest at 55c 15-30 mins then add 5L boiling water to jump to approx. 65c. I've been using Fawcetts floor malted Maris Otter for ales, possibly it may benefit more from steps when compared to other malts available. interesting to see in this article a mention of british pale ale malts as being low enzyme: "This is particularly true for beers brewed with low-enzyme malts, such as British pale ale malts. " [/quote'] My next beer is an American wheat ale with 50% wheat malt. My planned mash schedule is: 42C – 15 minutes 55C – 10 minutes 62C – 45 minutes 72C – 15 minutes 78C – 10 minutes I am not using rice hulls so I will see how the lautering goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hairy, you're a Grainfather man if memory serves correct? How does it go with these rests and steps? Are you adding heated water like headmaster, or are you adding all of your mash water at the start and just using the controller to add heat? Does it have to problems that Kelsey encounters with the element caking up and cutting out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hairy' date=' you're a Grainfather man if memory serves correct? How does it go with these rests and steps? Are you adding heated water like headmaster, or are you adding all of your mash water at the start and just using the controller to add heat? Does it have to problems that Kelsey encounters with the element caking up and cutting out?[/quote'] Yep, I am a Grainfather man. It works fine with the rests. I add all the mash water at the start and change the temperature with the controller. You can program the rests on the new controller but I have the old one so I set a timer and then manually change the temp setting. It's pretty easy. So far I have had no issues with scorching or with the element cutting out. I am guessing that the recirculation of the mash helps with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 My ghetto homemade system, very similar to a grainfather, also has a powerful 'klaxin' recirc food grade high temp pump, half the output goes to the top f the grain bed, the other half shooting back over the electric element in the bottom of my 38 litre kettle. I built it this way to avoid scorching, and I can and have successfully ramped between steps just using the STC to control the temp with no scorching or real deposits on element. Where I have run into trouble was using Rye, which as I learnt today has massive glucan (gum) and probably needs an acid rest, and also when I have used wheat malt, and stirred up the mash just before raising the temp. The surface area of my element is not enormous, it's this one: https://onlinebrewingsupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6/small_image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/9/6988ELEM2.4LG.png Still more surface area than the keg king one. Maybe I should try just using the controller again to step. I just don't want to have to tip another batch.. I have thought about buying a rims stick heater tube from kegking with triclover ends, but very exe at over $200. I recommend not stirring at all and let the wort filter clear before ramping. And stir only after it's reached temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hairy - I like the look of your mash schedule, I've read that a 40 to 42ºC rest is beneficial for brewers running a malt pipe as does you and I, except that you circulate from top down whereas I circulate from the bottom up. It is supposed to give a better penetration through the grain bed and consequently benefiting efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Bill Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I don't know about them being low enzyme... I hit 93.1% mash efficiency yesterday from a grist that contained about 91% TF MO. Anyway' date=' here's a couple of other pics from yesterday's brew day. After the mash, the bag was lifted up above the urn to drain out for 15-20 minutes. [img']https://www.coopers.com.au/static/media/attachments/1484176743_26_604.JPG[/img] The hop spider in place, and waiting for the wort to come up to boil. This is a false bottom I use in the urn during the mash, so I can apply heat if needed without burning holes in the grain bag. And while the wort comes up to and then boils, the grain bag hangs above this bucket. Any excess wort that drains out of it gets added to the boiling wort with around 30-35 minutes left in the boil. This was taken from another brew day, but transferring the wort to the cube after a 20 min rest after flameout. Cheers Kelsey Good to see you sorted the picture upload problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Haha, yeah the button was back again this morning. Dunno where it disappeared to yesterday but anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Sweet setup you got goin' there Kels! I like how you've got the minerals all topped up and ready to use I've been taste testing the worts every day, the pilsner is really flavoursome.. perhaps too much so! But, I'm thinking that's probably a good sign seeming my kits always tasted great at bottling but only worsened and went lifeless from there. For a 30ibu beer it's very bitter (tastes more like 45-50) and the malt backbone still so sweet. Still only in primary so these are just my prelim tasting. I like to see how it develops day-by-day. Glad I didn't make it to the 19l called for in the recipe.. (I went to 23) The IPA however is perhaps less bitter than the pilsner and still totally balanced, as it tasted from the pre-fermenting wort. It will be interesting to see wether the no-cool pilsner does turn out alot more bitter than intended in the recipe vs the fast(er) chill IPA I'm still reading 'How to brew' and running into so, so many controversial rules. Just one of them is: try not to splash the wort going into the fermenter, this may introduce oxygen and in turn oxidation potential. We all know the wort needs to be aerated before pitching. . That is the last time though. All other 'rules for great beer' are these days controversial too. I take everything on board but am also very aware that much of it is false or does not actually matter The exBEERiments expel so many of these. I understand some are not good practice for one reason or another but in the end, if it adds no risk, and tastes exactly the same (in many cases better) then I see no reason to dick around doing more work than you should for no reason at all I always say: work smarter, not harder. Because why TF would you!? End of the day, some of the experiments I've done before reading myself and did find the same thing. Others I won't believe until I try for myself (underpitching vs overpitching, brewing lagers at lager temps vs ale temps, to which I preferred the ale temp lager, both times. First time I attributed to using only 1x pack yeast which is an underpitch at lager temps, second time I doubled the yeast with no difference in taste) Completely understand that we all brew a little bit differently and many here won't agree with my way of thinking whatsoever and that's ok. As long as we all make the best beer we can and enjoy doing it our own educated way, then that's winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Gotta say, I love your vids man. Your assistant brewer rocks too (pup-dog) keep up the good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Thanks mate, it's been set up like that for a few years now, although the mineral salts and false bottom are more recent additions. One thing I'll say about Palmer is that he has retracted or changed his view on a few of the things in that How to Brew online version since it was published, and I suspect oxygenating the wort at pitching time would be one of them. The fact is, you can't over oxygenate the wort by simply splashing it into the fermenter. You can only get about 8ppm oxygen into it, whereas the recommended rate is about 10-12ppm. I inject pure O2 into my wort from a cylinder just before pitching yeast. The yeast will use up this oxygen during their multiplication phase, so there is no risk of oxidation. The oxidation risk happens if you splash the wort around after fermentation. Basically, don't splash hot wort around, or fermented beer. At yeast pitching time, feel free to go nuts on it, but this is the only time it is beneficial. As for the Exbeeriments, I get the whole work smarter not harder thing, and while these things in isolation might not affect the end outcome, if they were all combined at the same time in one batch then things may well be different. There are only so many corners you can cut before it starts having a detrimental effect. Personally, even though it might extend the brew day by 20 or 30 minutes, or require a little more effort on my part through the fermentation side, I'd rather use the best practices to achieve the best outcome possible. At the end of the day, if all these corner cutting practices consistently made no difference to the beer, all the commercial breweries would be using them too. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Very well put and wise words indeed. I have to agree with that Just having my daily FV test. Jeebus Christ, this stuff's tasting incredible! The pilsner is beginning to lose it's fermentable sugars and has a nice, biting bitterness which lasts for about 8 seconds or so before a nice malt taste kicks in. It's so nice. There's a lot of cold break still sloshing around but this should settle out shortly The IPA, ohh the IPA.. I've never noticed such a difference between two of my beers before, they actually taste completely different like they should! Both are very unique so far and both have seperate, fresh flavors. Both are really shaping up to be something really special To top things off, my next IPA has just turned up! Gotta do the long drive in to pick it up, can't have those fresh ingredients sitting in a hot post office all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Good to hear the beers are coming along nicely mate, it's what it's all about! I'm past the point now of tasting it every day, but I do take a sample mid ferment to see where it's sitting and usually have a sneaky taste. It's always overly sweet at that stage, though. This sample then sits with the hydrometer in it so I can monitor when it stops dropping and get a rough idea of what the FG should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Switching back to chill haze, but still staying slightly on topic of All Grain and procedures, what to do and what not to do, I do have some new findings that I made by mistake that might be interesting for this thread. I had chill haze on my mind recently (hence was discussing the things to do that may avoid it earlier in page 10 of this thread) The main reason I had this in mind, was that one of my more recent beers had more chill haze than I was used to, a Cascade/Centennial US style dryhopped pale ale. (batch 46 in two years) Had noticed that this had chill haze similar to some of my early AG batches, before I started following some good practices. I've just checked my notes for this batch, and I've realised the likely reason for the chill haze. As I was racking to cube, I left it flowing and got distracted so a lot more hot break/trub got transferred to cube than normal, where I usually halt the flow when I get to the crud at the bottom. So Kelsey, according to this finding, your passion for leaving out the hot break would appear to be confirmed by my mistake. One thing though, have also noticed that if I leave a bottle of this batch in the fridge for about 7 days, the chill haze is much less. The batch was cold crashed for 10 days at 2.5c as well. Also forgot to add brewing salts so the calcium levels were probably way under the recommended levels but I think that is only applicable to yeast flocculation performance rather than chill haze forming proteins. The good news it, the beer tastes bloody marvelous! Recipe: kg Prop Ingredient 4.780412855 86% Maris Otter 0 0% ---Select Grain/Fermentable--- 0.18 3% Acid Malt 0.247689785 4% Wheat Malt 0.371534678 7% Munich (9 srm) Boil Hops Hop Type (L/P) Grams Minutes AA% AA% Override IBUs Cascade P 20 15 7.2 7.1 6.9 Centennial P 20 15 11.5 13.2 12.8 Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand Hops Hop Type (L/P) Grams Avg Temp Minutes AA% AA% Override +IBUs Cascade P 33 90 20 7.2 7.1 8.3 Centennial P 40 90 20 11.5 13.2 18.8 Dry Hops Hop Type (L/P) Grams Location Days Temp Method Cascade P 25g Primary 4 18 Hop Bag Centennial p 25g Primary 4 18 Hop Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I wonder if that's why my pilsner that's currently on tap is overly hazy too, even though I used Polyclar in it... I can't remember if I let more hot break into the cube than normal when I brewed it though, and isinglass wasn't used because the yeast are so efficient at flocculating now. The beer currently in the fermenter had no hot break allowed into the cube so it will be interesting to compare once it's drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Would be interesting to know. Did you use the same grain for this batch? I'm starting to think I might get motiivated to filter out the break at the bottom of the cube by pouring most of it in from a height as i do normally, then attaching some clean chux to the top of the coopers FV, and pouring the last bit through that. I've tried this before but gave up as it was taking so long to filter through, but if I limit it to the last bit, might not be too much of a hassle. I know it's likely the hot break that is the main problem.. But people often complain BIAB no chill results in cloudy beer. Has to be either the differences in lautering process or presence of hot and/or cold break in the drink. Don't think rapid chilling would do much to the makeup of the protein chains. My current batch of Bo pils was crash chilled in the pool as I wrote earlier, so will report on any differences using that method :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Not this current batch, it was brewed with BB Pils malt. It's a XXXX Bitter rip off though, so a different recipe. The previous batches of proper pilsner were all brewed with the same grain bill, and these were all brewed the same way, and treated with isinglass as well as Polyclar. Maybe the isinglass dropped out some of the proteins in the brew which made it clear, I don't know. I'm not overly concerned about it though, it's just one of those anomalies. Pretty well every brew I use both agents in ends up clear as crystal once the yeast fully drops out, so I suppose I can put up with the odd one here and there being hazy for some unknown reason. Would have preferred it on a pale ale or something though Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Look forward to hearing more as this experiment plays out guys, do keep us posted Well I'm back and have just opened up the box to find what looks to be an interesting AIPA, here's the list (there were no additional minerals included like there were from Martin @ National Home Brew but I have these on hand now) OG: 1.065 FG: 1.012 ABV: 7.0% IBU: 64 SRM: 7 5.8kg Gladfield American Ale Malt 450g Joe White Caramel malt 350g Joe White Munich malt 110g Simpson pale crystal malt 60min 30g Magnum 15min whirlfloc 10min 30g Centennial 5min 30g Simcoe 0min 30g Amarillo 1x US-05 (1x...????) I don't think so, I've got another on hand So for $50 delivered it seems ok for a noob like me? It stumps me why only one yeast sachet though but at least I know to have extra on hand next time anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Is there a dry hop as well? It looks like a nice recipe but it needs at least a 60-70g dry hop, 100g+ even better. It is an AIPA after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Also picked up one'a those water bubbler plastic water containers the other day too. I have a bunch of Nelson and Cascade hops that have been sitting in the fridge doing nothing and would like to do something with them. Got a bunch of Coopers yeast too come to think of it.. Any suggestions? I could simply split off a bit of wort and water it down with the added hops to make an APA or something. I'm not sure. Don't really want to mess with this recipe and potentially out balance an otherwise good batch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 You're right! No there's not :( Well, there's a use for the Cascade and Nelson! It's a bit of a dissapointing kit now that you mention it compared to Martins if I didn't have any of the extras on hand. Can't complain about the amount and variety of malt though so I guess it makes up there. Actually, it's lucky you mentioned that because I probably would have forgotten to dry hop the current batch! There was also no Campden tablet included either but I'm thinking, even with only 2 brews under my belt so far, I'm expecting efficiency using 7kg of grain to make a 23l final wort of quiiite a bit above 7% abv.. sounds dangerous! I'd be keen to make it go a few more litres if there's not too much harm in it (?) To bring it down a little in the alcahol dept and just to make more but not sure how this might affect body and bitterness? Probably a good time for me to pump the ingredients into Beersmith and see EDIT: Well, BS tells me pretty close to the same figures so see what happens on the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Your efficiency will probably go down a bit with a bigger grain bill, it's usually the way it works, so you may well end up with less ABV in the 23 litres anyway. I'd just brew it and see what happens, it's really the only way to learn your system. Making adjustments before you even know if you need to is pretty pointless really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 I'm guessing the efficiency dropping with higher abv is due to water being so saturated with sugars it can't absorb much more, is that correct? I'm sure there's a technical term for it but I don't know what it is I'm kinda just waiting for bottling day now, not sure if I'm going to transfer to secondary or cold crash any of these because I just am a little impatient this first time around to be honest. I think it might be good to go ahead and bottle at 2 weeks, get the next ones in and experiment with secondary and crashing with those to see what (if any) effects I find with that. Which reminds me: I need another AG kit!! doing one at a time in a two door fridge is for chumps by the way, the pilsner is glorious this morning, takes me all the way to Germany. It's clearing, less sweet again (yes, since yesterday, ha) bitterness not as overwhelming or 'biting', cold break starting to sink and clump nicely, grain flavour is forefront and simply dee-liscous! I could've drank straight from fv, happily. Another thing I'm noticing and hope for is the clumping break. In kit brews they never 'clumped' in the bottle like a real Coopers ale or insert other name here, sediment was always 'dusty' and just filled the beer with cloud whearas other commercial beers clump moreso. Maybe another by - product of AG? I'll find out soon enough I decided on a German Hefe. Srm: 5, ibu: 18. Sounds like a simple quaffer, only $35 delivered! That's pretty hard to beat. I've gone off the wheat's lately cause my kits weren't the best after a few weeks and one I had in the beer advent calendar wasn't very nice at all.. hoping the palate hasn't changed because they were a favourite for yeeeears.. only one way to find out. Make 60 of em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Priming sugar question One thing I've constantly struggled with is carb rate. The last few batches I did were primed pretty low, undercarbed at 2-3 weeks, now, 8 weeks later they're all overcarbed. . I just can't seem to get this right. Fermentation seemed done. 2 weeks at 18, at least a few days out of the fridge at 28 or so. I do admit though, this was using a sugar measure, not batch primed so this may be the whole fault Beersmith tells me to reach 2.1 levels of co2 carbonation I need to prime with 105gm per batch And Brewers friend calc estimates less at 97gms which isn't too far apart. Does anyone have a personal preference rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Secondary is a waste of time and effort but cold crashing isn't a bad idea. I can appreciate the impatience with the first batch or two though I went through it as well although I think I still gave it a cold crash for a week. I can't remember exactly why the efficiency goes down with larger grain bills but I'd expect it's something along the lines of what you said there. I'll look it up next week. I don't brew many big beers, but when I do I always drop the efficiency by about 8% or so to account for it. I always used dextrose for carbonation rather than table sugar and you need a little more of it, but around 7-8g per litre was my favoured rate for lighter coloured styles. I went lower for the darker ones though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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