Going all grain. advice wanted

[Corksniffer]

Well I've been doing some research on priming and ran into a brilliant article on National Home Brew's site which is so good it creates more questions than answers but in the end found that this little guideline is simplest http://www.homebrewblog.com.au/bulk-priming/ and perhaps the most accurate

 

Carbonation plays a massive role in the taste, mouthfeel and general character of all beers it's something I think most people mistakenly dismiss. One thing I've noted about any well carbed beer is: they don't 'grow' no matter how much you shake them in the bottle. If a beer's head grows at all when shaken and begins climbing toward the neck of a bottle it's overcarbed. I'm not sure this is true for highly carbed wheat's to be honest but lagers and pale ales yes. You just can't drink an overcarbed beer well. Overcarbed beer has a head with big bubbles, whereas correct carb will form a creamy, tight compact head that stays but does not grow or hinder the drinking experience. Some of my beers I've had to just about swing it outta the way to get to what's underneath! .. a wall of bubbles filled my mouth ruining any chance of an enjoyable experience

 

I also remember someone here on the forum had a thread about gushers that progressed over a few months for seemingly no reason on a dark or stout. After reading Martin's article I think the answer is printed plain as day: some dark ales are self priming and don't require additional prime. Priming makes it difficult to master any particular style that's for sure, lots of trial and error. I've decided to stick with 108 for both (2.2 vols) which is scary for me because I've just measured I've been using 3.3g per/litre and still running into overcarbed beers over time, which is 1.8 volumes or 71g total table sugar (sucrose) which I'm beginning to think maybe I've been battling a minor infection that creeps over time, this would explain why my last crazy hopped Bootmaker pale is very low on carb, the sheer amount of hops may have killed anything off, I really don't know, it's all speculation.

 

I did note the clear fv spigot taps had a bit of gunk inside I couldn't get out that possibility played a role.. replaced them last week, now I'm considering changing the type all together because this type is a turn handle where you turn it clockwise to open and counter to close. Stuff grows or gets trapped between the outside and inside that can't be cleaned and every time you open the valve you're basically scraping the crud into the opening. This is insane now I think about it! .

 

I've also come to think about the effect.of even taking samples during fermentation through the spigot. There is definitely going to be dried beer and lots of bacteria accrued inside the spout that will most likely contaminate every single bottle we pour into. Matter of fact, even without taking samples, if we don't sanitize the inside (and outside) of the spout where the bottling wand or siphon attaches to we're unwittingly contaminating an entire batch of beer, and after all that hard work keeping things clean..

 

This type http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/262114029888?lpid=107&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1797%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D50030753137_573061%2526itemid%253D262114029888%2526targetid%253D100809183937%2526rpc%253D0.20%2526rpc_upld_id%253D97162%2526device%253Dm%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253a%25252f%25252fwww.ebay.com.au%25252fitm%25252flike%25252f262114029888%25253flpid%25253d107%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D1000322%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D622828744%2526adgroupid%253D9840971857%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-100809183937%2526gclid%253DCO315eTawdECFYiWvQodLp0JUA%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1153350435291&lpid=107&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1797%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D50030753137_573061%2526itemid%253D262114029888%2526targetid%253D100809183937%2526rpc%253D0.20%2526rpc_upld_id%253D97162%2526device%253Dm%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253a%25252f%25252fwww.ebay.com.au%25252fitm%25252flike%25252f262114029888%25253flpid%25253d107%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D1000322%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D622828744%2526adgroupid%253D9840971857%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-100809183937%2526gclid%253DCO315eTawdECFYiWvQodLp0JUA%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1153350435291&ul_noapp=true

 

EDIT: Turns out they come apart if you boil to loosen-em up'! I'll clean them every time now. The more I think the more I suspect contamination..

[Ark]

 

My wife and I are big fans of your channel KR. She loves it for your comedic commentary and max and Jonah appearances, and I'm deeply involved in learning as much as possible before i try BIAB. well done keep them coming

 

[Corksniffer]

Just put my second IPA on today, now realize I made a boo-boo.. I mistakenly added 2g baking soda in attempt to replicate the last recipe' salt additives instead of 2g epsom salts what a dousche!! I was thinking the wort tasted a bit 'unfresh' but it could've been in my head. Tasted ok by the end of the boil. Hit og bang on still. What might I expect from this, I don't know how much 2g can affect 23l. So pissed at myself. I just tried to test the current ph with one of the test strips but it didn't budge in original color which is around 7. It turned slightly purple when tested in vinegar

[Jaydub]

Just did a few quick google searches and it looks like you haven't ruined your batch this time around. Doesn't appear to be detrimental based on what I just read, and at 2g to 23L it's barely there anyway.

 

To quote the post from Home Brew Talk

 

After tasting my cream ale, I have found that it is slightly sour. The beer is still young, 2 weeks old and I just started carbing it in a keg. I doubt that the sour flavor will mature out.

 

However, in a small test glass, I add a extremely small dash of baking soda and the the sourness was gone, resulting in a completely different beer.

 

Has anyone tried this?

 

Beer stats:

OG 1.050

FG 1.008

Yeast: WLP001

 

90% Two Row

10% Flaked Maize

12 IBU

 

I know you have used it at a different time in the brewing process but unless it has some negative affect on the yeasts activity I reckon all will be sweet.

[Otto Von Blotto]

All it would have done is increase the sodium and the bicarbonate levels in your water a little bit, which wouldn't have any negative effects given your starting water is very soft anyway. Wouldn't worry about it mate!

[Corksniffer]

Thanks Kels', ironically, I've been worrying about it all night! What a noob.. I'll put it down to a learning experience. Feel so much better now

 

On lighter, less stressful news I bottled the pilsner. . I've never been so thorough in my cleaning and sanitizing bottle schedule, these things have been bottled brushed to near buggery. Not taking any chances. Tasting good. Now we wait(!)

[Corksniffer]

Ok. I always knew I'd be cracking a pils way too early (it's just how I roll) but wasn't going to say anything until at least a few weeks (ok, days..) but. I'm having a pilsner just 2 days after bottling and it's bloody brilliant

 

You know what it tastes like? It tastes just like Powerstance Pilsner. It is freaking, delicious. Still a tadd green as you could imagine but the kit days have taught me to see through that. Once the slight appley masking aroma is removed by the yeast I know the other flavours and aromas will ring true. While not carbed 100%, sitting at 30 degrees 2 days has been enough to carb to around 75% of what I'd like the final product to be, but if not, now I bulk prime it's easy to adjust! FG was 1.010, same as the IPA I just bottled. I'm so used to 1.013 fg's so Suprising

 

The beer has that 'creaminess' to it so far. Soon as I tasted it I just smiled. I can taste the malt and hops separately which has never been the case before. This tastes just like that beautiful lager I first fell in love with in December that led me here. Wow.. thanks guys. I'm actually elated with this newfound hobby and end product. It's astoundingly good. And I really appreciate your help, fact without you guys I probably would never started at all and just thrown in the towel. Specially you Kels', thanks so much man, I love you man! (Hey, he couldn't have downed that many between now n then, could he..?) Ha. Seriously man, thank you so much!

 

Very interested to see how aging plays out, as some might remember, my beers have only ever gone downhill instead of up so will definitely update over time. Another thing I immediately notice about this batch is the SRM is just right and there's actually a protein based head that sticks to a glass, just like any other great beer! I really didn't quite expect results this good.. every sip just blows me away all over again (shaking my head in disbelief) . So rewarding. Fact I'll go as far as saying it makes a mockery of the beers I had on tap Sunday

 

I've gotta throw some more of these in the fridge, they're not gonna last two weeks, haha (I'm serious!)

[Otto Von Blotto]

No worries mate, I'm glad the beer has turned out so well! The jump in flavour and freshness quality is definitely noticeable with a well brewed AG recipe. You'll just have to brew a heap of them to stockpile them properly so they get the conditioning time they deserve now

[Corksniffer]

Well I got the hefe on ok today. Except, I got a little pissed on the IPA's and pitched the wb06 at 42 degrees. .! Ha. Yea, rookie mistake. Just wasn't thinking (which seems to go well with alcahol, this is why I need a lighter beer!)

 

So I scooped a little out straight away soon as I realized and got it down to 28 within 2hrs. Pitched the half I scooped and now, just 3hrs from kettle to fv the krausen is high and I've never seen anything like this airlock, it's not only bubbling, it's continously going off non stop. Geeez this is a fast starter. While not 'ideal' it'll be interesting to see how it turns out Because a lot of people say the banarama really comes out at higher temps. I'm shooting for 17 degrees in the fridge so it'll get there within a few hrs

 

Og 1.040 and nice light ebc. It actually came with 34g Hallertau and 20 of cascade @ 45mins.. ditched 5g Cascade for an ibu of 15 rather 20

 

there was no whirlfloc with this kit and tell you the truth I really didn't miss it

 

See how she blows!!

 

The first two are still excellent and carbonation has stalled as it should, they're a tadd undercarbed but fine (will go 120g rather than 100 next time) If anything, they're a bit too flavoursome! I add a little water and am happier with them so maybe a lower mash temp would help drop some body (?) Unless it's simply the higher abv or higher ferment temp. Aroma is a tadd strong too (remembering I'm pretty fussy, the product is 100% on kits) Can definitely taste the extra bitterness from the Saaz with the no cool pil., unless that's just how the recipe was designed and the hop 'bite' rings very true. It does bite, then 5 seconds later the malt kicks in. Beeeewdiful. I just like at least 1x lighter quaffer than 2x heavy as heck ballbusters so I decided to add more water to the wheat today and use 2x fv's. One will be experimental with hops and coriander, the other will be experimental with the 42 degree starter :D

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yes if you want them more "watery" then you can try mashing lower, and/or increasing the volume if possible. I'm brewing a porter tomorrow which will be mashed around 64/65C because apparently with the yeast I'm using on it, it'll still only get down to 1.015 which is plenty thick enough for me in a beer

[Corksniffer]

I know you're doing a xxxx clone at the minute and I'm thinking, maybe I can give an Aussie bitter vb type beer a run. I have another pilsener kit on the way which is mostly pilsner malt with a bit of wheat thrown in, Saflager yeast and a shedload of saaz (120g). I think a typical vb would need some pale malt too but do you think it'd be close using that malt, 15 or so percent sucrose to dry it out a bit, 20ibu P.O.R and maybe some finishing hops (like Saaz perhaps! or not?) to get somewhere within the ballpark? Just looking to make a simple quaffer really. I have some us05 on hand too if that helps at all

 

I'd love to see how close I can get at home without too much effort on the megaswill range. Though I generally am impressed by these types from the first few swigs the novelty seems to wear off before even half a stubbie or so

 

 

[Titan8]

Kelsey, how long can the cubes be stored and do you store in a fridge?

[Corksniffer]

Well it might be all pale malt https://www.victoriabitter.com.au/the-brew and lagered at 18 degrees. Surely some simple sugar there somewhere. I'm not sure pilsner malt will maje anything close now?

[Corksniffer]

By the way, think this hefe might be a writeoff. It's color is about a 1 or 2 on the charts and now realize that the little bit of extra water I added to get og down Equates to 20% on the original recipe and it just tastes weak.. There's really bugger all to it. New rule: never test the product extensively on brew day..

 

it's very reminiscent of that first experimental brew with the 1/4 of any normal recipe (og 1.010) while it's nowhere near that sort of low gravity it tastes very similarly watery. Maybe cause of the high (70% of the grain bill) wheat malt content. You never know though

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'll come back to this tomorrow mate, I'm shit tired and about to go to bed, but in summary, pale malt, raw sugar at about 15%, POR to 20IBU (if that, having tasted it recently I'm surprised any hops are in it at all) and no finishing hops should do it. Use a lager yeast like Wyeast 2042, it seems to be the go-to yeast for Aussie megaswill knock offs.

 

Titan, the cubes can be stored anywhere up to 2 years if the process is done properly, although I generally only store mine for a few weeks at the most as I like to ferment them while they're freshly brewed.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Corksniffer]

Thanks mate. I'll keep that in mind for whenever I do give it a go. While we're at it, Heinekin. It's a unique lager that's for sure. Any pointers on that type of swill? I'm assuming yeast is absolute key

 

UPDATE : Downed a few (quite a few really. .) Of the AG beers yesterday. It was the most glorious day in history weather wise and found myself in the pool at 9am with a beer, before realizing I had work stuff to do..! Got it done quick and resumed position.

 

Both are still bloody magnificent. I barely notice any difference between when they were first bottled and now to be honest, which is good. To be absolutely honest they tasted about the same in fv which is also good. I'm not a believer in aging creating magical beers that taste nothing like they did at first, to me this is internet hype like so many other legendary myths in home brewing. What goes in kinda comes out I think. That's been my experience anyway

 

The pilsner is a nice fresh drop. The IPA is a balanced cream machine. Only thing I could possibly fault is that the flavors have blended somewhat and none of it 'pops' right away. Like the little creatures I had not long ago. It's as good as that but not as great as some of the advent calendar beers where it was if someone had inserted a hop flake directly into my mouth it was so fresh and everything popped. I've never been able to get that type of hop profile before. Maybe it's mash ph and water mineral balance? Cpuld it be tje added epsom salts? It's only my first one so no doubt I'll figure it out in time. I don't know but it's easily commercial quality stuff for anyone wondering if it might be worthwhile switching to ag

 

I'm getting a lot of chill haze in even the pilsner that had all sorts of mash temps but this bothers me none. In fact it's probably a good thing because the head on these ag beers are beautiful and creamy meaning the beer has body, unlike kits which were never the same. Still had head but not like this

 

It's more expensive than kit because you need more stuff and using gas bottles to boil, let alone at least half a day of time to make a wort rather than $25 worth of kit and 1/2 an hr (it's costing me between $40 for a simple hefe anyway up to $85 for a big IPA. Could be cheaper if you live close to a shop who sells 25kg bags direct but for me my prices are best case) If you're looking for great results and possibly a little more of an in depth hobby then ag is definitely for you. It's certainly way more enjoyable all round for me than kit beer ever was. I gave one away to a neighbor who actually came over yesterday to tell me how much he loved it. Lets just say it's the first time I've felt good about giving away samplers and first time anyone's told me the beer was 'great' I've given away stacks of kit beer to mates and they're quite honest so either I'd never hear anything back (take that as a bad sign..) or they'd confirm it was a bit 'funky'

 

I really am wondering why no one ever came out direct and just told me why I wasn't getting results with kits? For anyone trying all sorts of crazy stuff in last ditch attempts to make a good kit beer, forgot it. Go all grain and like people were telling me, you don't even need to worry about water profiles or mash ph straight up, still make a great beer without any of that. Does all grain taste better than kit? Yes, yes it does.

 

Get into it!

[Otto Von Blotto]

It's definitely cheaper than kits in regard to ingredients if you are able to buy in bulk. Most of my batches cost about $20; if I brew a big beer like an IPA it jumps to about $30, mainly due to the increased malt and hop bill. Pilsners are also around that$28-$30 mark per batch due to only using Saaz hops (and you need a lot of them to hit 40ish IBUs). I re-use yeast numerous times so its cost is thinly spread across a lot of batches. Even with shipping, if you did buy in bulk it'd still be nothing like $80 odd a batch, but you would need a grain mill as well.

 

I guess nobody commented on the kit results because not everyone has that problem with them. I never did, but the jump in freshness of flavour and the way it almost jumps out of the beer with AG, compared to the somewhat subdued nature of the flavour with kits or extracts was definitely noticeable on that first batch I brewed. And that was the reason I've never gone back.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Not sure about Heineken though, I don't think I've seen a recipe for it anywhere. I'm guessing yeast would play a part but so would the hops used. I'm not sure what hops or yeast they use in it though.

[Corksniffer]

Cheers Kels', geez that's cheap.. I think even best case buying in bulk for me would be quite a bit more w/-freight. We also have problems with storing grain due to the high humidity I've been told and can definitely imagine. Everything else goes mouldy so grain would definitely

 

I spoke with Martin @ National about Heinekin too and he gave me a recipe for Munich Helles, saying I'd never look sideways at a Heine again

 

You know, maybe there's something to what you say about kits and me. As I was carting a full 27l kettle from tap to burner yesterday I noticed the water is really quite brown like regular swamp water. This is Darwin after all and we get huge wet seasons. Rain washes from all around into our catchment and who knows what type of stuff is in there. I think it's very possible that not boiling with the kits here is the problem. Maybe I should have tried boiling just one batch's water to see. It's a real possibility as to why my beers always over carbonated over a period of months (I'm assuming) close to 1.000 and I always had bottles exploding even with 3g per litre in the end.. the AG's stop carbing perfectly after a week I'm noticing

[joolbag]

Corksniffer, I brewed one Munich Helles last year, extract only recipe and really enjoyed it. I miss it and would definitely brew again.

 

Another style that I am going to brew is the Dortmunder export. They say it is like a Munich Helles, but hoppier yet still balanced. Been looking at mainly extract recipes but I do have the equipment to do all-grain. Will def brew both of these in next six months, method TBC.

[headmaster]

Not sure about Heineken though' date=' I don't think I've seen a recipe for it anywhere. I'm guessing yeast would play a part but so would the hops used. I'm not sure what hops or yeast they use in it though.[/quote']

 

I have read that the yeast for Heineken is so tightly held, it must be kept secure by 24hr security personnel. It pretty much makes the flavour of the beer that yeast, and this is the most popular beer in the world so no wonder they are holding on to it so carefully.

[Otto Von Blotto]

You might be onto something with the water quality. It's obviously not treated very well, or the pipes are in shithouse condition because it shouldn't be coming out of the tap brown. It gets humid here too but nothing like there I'd imagine and it's not all year round either; in any case I haven't had any problems with stored grain going mouldy. Mind you, Ben10 lives up in FNQ which is probably humid as shit too, and he buys grain in bulk without issue.

 

I wonder if you could still get the Heineken yeast... I don't know if their filtering process is better than Oettinger's, but last year I filled a keg with Oettinger cans to buy some more brewing time and by the time the keg was emptied there was a small amount of sludge in the bottom of it which I can only assume was yeast.

[headmaster]

Would not have expected that sediment..

 

I reckon the heineken is probably pastuerised like almost all mass produced beer.

 

If I had to choose a mass produced lager beer to drink, it would probably be heineken, pretty tasty stuff last time I tried it, but it was the genuine stuff imported from Holland

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah you're probably right, in which case any yeast that is in there would be dead of course. I don't mind it but I recently bought a carton of Grolsch for the first time in ages and preferred that over the Heineken. My favourite one will always be Pilsner Urquell though.

[headmaster]

My favourite too, but didn't really want to include Urquell in the mass produced category.. I suppose it might be though. The Urquell wins hands down over the Heineken.