No, You're Not Seeing Things!

[Beerlust]

I got handed a couple of these by the Lion Nathan rep earlier today. Out of respect to the man I didn't comment.

 

 

No, you're not seeing things! 3.5% ABV & if they're not on the shelves at your LBS yet, they soon will be.

 

For those interested, NO I won't be bothering to try it. It'll probably make Crown Golden Ale look good!

 

I have better things to spend my hard earned buck on.

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Tooheys recently brought out that Darling Pale Ale, I guess it's a response of sorts, even though both breweries are owned by the same conglomerate. I tried a relic from a bygone era in Sydney last year, a Tooheys Flag Ale. It was much better than the current megaswills. There was actually a bit of malt and hop flavour in it, and it's more of a light copper/amber colour.

 

I don't know why they keep pushing Gold though. As much as I don't like megaswill, Bitter is by far the best of the XXXX range, which incidentally used to be an ale before the takeover of the bland lagers happened.

 

I may try them just for the hell of it, but I must say I'm not expecting much.

[Beerlust]

The trouble is there are NO apparent standards in this country that govern a certain style of beer for commercial breweries to adhere to. Thus the multi-nationals are trying to cash in on catch phrases & terms, rather than actually brewing beers following the recognized opus that represents what those beer styles actually are, & how they are to be constructed & brewed.

 

It's really starting to make me angry. Angry as a consumer, & someone who understands beer.

 

Some food for thought...

 

As amateur brewers if we want to have our beer assessed & judged, we have to submit it to a panel of judges who assess it against the current BJCP guidelines for the style we have asked it to be judged on.

 

Is there a single person on this forum who believes that the beer I have just highlighted would WIN the category for best Australian Pale Ale this year if judged under the same scrutiny & BJCP guidelines that do reflect what the style is meant to be?

 

I doubt it. In fact I'd go far enough to say I'm confident even judges of an intermediate level that understand the BJCP guidelines for style would place a beer with this title in the bottom 25% & question many aspects of the brewer claiming it is reflective of the style.

 

Do yourself a favour Coopers, & defend what you produce as an Ale & what should be representative of an Ale in the commercial market.

 

I, & many others are behind you & what 153 years of brewing ale beers is worth. Surely there must be some integrity left worth fighting for?

 

A passionate subject for me, so apologies for the rant.

 

Lusty.

[Mike1525229463]

bjcp doesn't have an australian pale ale category yet but the AABC guidelines do, ABV: 4.2–6%

[Otto Von Blotto]

They're trying to cash in on it to wipe out the little guys who are actually brewing good beer (with the exception of Coopers who are hardly a little guy anymore). These breweries could quite easily brew a world class pale ale or IPA or whatever other style, but they never will because the masses who buy their watery swill would never drink it, and the die hard craft beer lovers would likely dismiss it, or refuse to buy it on the grounds of it being brewed by a mega brewery, so they'd make no money off it.

 

I haven't tried either of the Tooheys or this one (mind you, brewing my own I rarely go to bottleshops anymore), but I have tried Crown Golden Ale. It was bland, little to no hop influence at all that I could detect, which also made it rather unpleasantly sweet. Not what I would class as a decent attempt at the style. I would not buy it again. The megaswillers would love it though, and they'd be able to pretend to be beer snobs for a short while by drinking something that appears to be classier than the standard offerings. That's basically what it's aimed at.

 

 

 

 

[headmaster]

If there's anything I've learned from getting back into brewing this year, it's that it the cost of beer production is greatly variable depending on the quality of fermentables. bittering methods, amount of hops, and of course the time spent tying up facilities. Clearly these megaswill makers will be compromising on all of these things just to make the managers hit their KPI's and to squeeze every last dollar out. Now that I know what beer is supposed to taste like, I will hopefully never drink this rubbish they make ever again, except possibly on pain of death. Not that I've actually consumed one of these types of beers for some years. Apart from the odd Reschs on tap when I've made a rare visit to the bowlo with my in laws..

[ICzed]

I don't know why they keep pushing Gold though. As much as I don't like megaswill' date=' Bitter is by far the best of the XXXX range, which incidentally used to be an ale before the takeover of the bland lagers happened. [img']biggrin[/img]

 

Gold is the most widely drunk beer in Australia, they're more likely to have people try their pale ale if it is labelled as Gold. Plus it has the same ABV.

 

When did the take over of bland lagers begin? From what I understand XXXX bitter has been a lager since Castlemaine's German brewer re-wrote the recipe in 1924.

 

Anyways, I'll have a crack at this if I see it around. I tried the Toohey's Darling Pale Ale a few weeks ago. It was OK, tasted just like New but with an ale yeast. Good head but no aroma whatsoever.

 

[Magnaman]

Large Multinational Corporations and in this case their beer.

 

 

Cheers

[GregT5]

So Lion Nathan are now selling Nescafe Blend 43...

 

I reckon that would be more popular than what's in the other container in the picture.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Gold is the most widely drunk beer in Australia' date=' they're more likely to have people try their pale ale if it is labelled as Gold. Plus it has the same ABV.

 

When did the take over of bland lagers begin? From what I understand XXXX bitter has been a lager since Castlemaine's German brewer re-wrote the recipe in 1924.

 

Anyways, I'll have a crack at this if I see it around. I tried the Toohey's Darling Pale Ale a few weeks ago. It was OK, tasted just like New but with an ale yeast. Good head but no aroma whatsoever.

[/quote']

 

That is true, has been for some time I think too. Is it because of the constant marketing, or because people like the lower ABV? I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for XXXX Bitter anywhere.

 

It was a gradual thing I believe. Bitter was always labelled and known as XXXX Bitter Ale, up until relatively recently when they removed the "ale" from it because it was seen to give the impression that it was an "old man's drink". I actually had a couple of stubbies with these old labels on them; I think they were from the mid 80s to early 90s period by the look of them. So either it was an ale brewed to be like a lager, or it was always a lager just labelled as ale, which probably isn't the first time a brewery has done that. Apparently they've now subbed out using all Cluster hops in it and started using POR for bittering to reduce costs (higher AA%).

 

There are a number of threads on AHB about megaswill clones, and the conversation invariably turns to the old timers talking about what megaswill used to be like back in the 60s and 70s - common theme being darker, and more malt and hop presence. Bitter gets a mention as being a different beast to today's version. I've tried Reschs and the aforementioned Tooheys Flag Ale, and if they are indicative of yesteryear's megaswill then I'd be inclined to agree. They fit that description to a tee. By craft beer standards they are pretty bland, but by today's megaswill standards they are much more enjoyable, and I would drink them if they were ever on tap up here, albeit nowhere near as often as my preferred craft brews.

[Beerlust]

Gold is the most widely drunk beer in Australia' date=' they're more likely to have people try their pale ale if it is labelled as Gold. Plus it has the same ABV.

 

When did the take over of bland lagers begin? From what I understand XXXX bitter has been a lager since Castlemaine's German brewer re-wrote the recipe in 1924.

 

Anyways, I'll have a crack at this if I see it around. I tried the Toohey's Darling Pale Ale a few weeks ago. It was OK, tasted just like New but with an ale yeast. Good head but no aroma whatsoever.

[/quote']

 

That is true, has been for some time I think too. Is it because of the constant marketing, or because people like the lower ABV? I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for XXXX Bitter anywhere.

 

It was a gradual thing I believe. Bitter was always labelled and known as XXXX Bitter Ale, up until relatively recently when they removed the "ale" from it because it was seen to give the impression that it was an "old man's drink". I actually had a couple of stubbies with these old labels on them; I think they were from the mid 80s to early 90s period by the look of them. So either it was an ale brewed to be like a lager, or it was always a lager just labelled as ale, which probably isn't the first time a brewery has done that. Apparently they've now subbed out using all Cluster hops in it and started using POR for bittering to reduce costs (higher AA%).

 

There are a number of threads on AHB about megaswill clones, and the conversation invariably turns to the old timers talking about what megaswill used to be like back in the 60s and 70s - common theme being darker, and more malt and hop presence. Bitter gets a mention as being a different beast to today's version. I've tried Reschs and the aforementioned Tooheys Flag Ale, and if they are indicative of yesteryear's megaswill then I'd be inclined to agree. They fit that description to a tee. By craft beer standards they are pretty bland, but by today's megaswill standards they are much more enjoyable, and I would drink them if they were ever on tap up here, albeit nowhere near as often as my preferred craft brews.

The changes in these beers have all come about through market pressure & which multi-national controls the 'triggers'.

 

Our country in the last decade or so is a sellout to overseas interests. Our governments through this period have basically facilitated this, & those who have represented us through this period are an absolute disgrace (IMHO).

 

Don't expect anything to get any better anytime soon.

 

Lusty.

[Scottie]

Don't know if I'll knock before I try it

The locals in my home town don't serve yuppie beers at all at the bar, either tap of bottle. Therefore when I visit these establishments I opt for Cascade Pale Ale - true it isn't as good as a LCPA but it comparable to Coopers Pale Ale. If I frequent a pub in Hobart that doesn't sell craft beers, normally the first and last time, then Cascade Pale Ale is again the fall back beer.

 

It is interesting the comments that OVB makes re old timers, Cascade Pale Ale is commonly known as Cascade Green, when I was a lad in the late 70s it was considered an old timers drink. All us young (underage bucks) used to drink Cascade Blue down by the river, Blue was the man's drink. Never tried Cascade Red, Bitter, because we all thought it would be bitter. Even now when I drink the Cascade Pale my XXXX gold mate says "awwwh Green".

 

Cheers & Beers

Scottie

Valley Brew

[Otto Von Blotto]

I don't disagree there at all Lusty. In fact I have heard a theory that they are gradually blanding our home grown beers until they get so crap that nobody wants to drink them at all and start moving across to the international brands. It's something I'll believe when I see it but I wouldn't put it past them to do that. It's also why I find it incredibly hard to believe the claims of these brewers that the recipes have never changed.

[Hairy]

I'll give it a go, and the Tooheys Darling Pale Ale too.

 

My expectations aren't high but I can't bag it until I have tried it.

[Beerlust]

I'll give it a go' date=' and the Tooheys Darling Pale Ale too.

 

My expectations aren't high but I can't bag it until I have tried it.[/quote']

Did you learn nothing from the Crown Ale sampling?

 

Hey, after you've tried them Hairy, we'll both be bagging them, only I'll have approx. an extra $6-$7 in my pocket.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Hairy]

I have very little doubt that I will be bagging them; I am just withholding judgement until then

 

With regards to the Crown Golden Ale, the first taste I had was a sample at Dan Murphys and it was really disgusting, like it was off.

 

But I have tried it properly since then and, whilst nothing spectacular, it wasn't horrible either. It was just a bland, inoffensive ale that you could easily slam down.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, I'll give them a try as well but as I said I don't have very high expectations. There may well be 3 of us bagging it then.

[ICzed]

Apparently they've now subbed out using all Cluster hops in it and started using POR for bittering to reduce costs (higher AA%).

 

There are a number of threads on AHB about megaswill clones' date=' and the conversation invariably turns to the old timers talking about what megaswill used to be like back in the 60s and 70s - common theme being darker, and more malt and hop presence. Bitter gets a mention as being a different beast to today's version. I've tried Reschs and the aforementioned Tooheys Flag Ale, and if they are indicative of yesteryear's megaswill then I'd be inclined to agree. They fit that description to a tee. By craft beer standards they are pretty bland, but by today's megaswill standards they are much more enjoyable, and I would drink them if they were ever on tap up here, albeit nowhere near as often as my preferred craft brews. [/quote']

 

It's funny that this thread has popped up because I did the XXXX brewery tour last month for a friends 30th. This is the XXXX recipe according to the guide:

 

Pilsner malt

Roasted barley (for colour)

Super Pride hops for bittering

"Golden" Cluster for aroma/flavour

Cane sugar (to make the beer more chuggable).

 

He said the ratio for hops is:

Bitter: Super Pride 75% / Cluster 25%

Gold: Super Pride 50% / Cluster 50%

 

Anywhoo...

[Otto Von Blotto]

I went on a tour a couple of years back as well, with the work social club. That time, they didn't say anything about the percentages of each hop, but they are organising another tour in September so I'm gonna go again, and will definitely make note of anything they disclose about the recipe.