Here you go Lusty - my Red ale recipe

[Otto Von Blotto]

It will be different, I use Munich II in my pale ales and it's definitely nothing like Caraaroma. It's basically a base malt, but it has a more malty rich flavour than other base malts. I think the beer will still turn out nice, just won't be the same as the original recipe

[headmaster]

This nonsensical blanket rule of moving everything 15 minutes forward or whatever should be thrown on the scrap heap to be honest.

 

/rant

 

I agree there for the most part, just be careful with late galaxy I reckon..

 

read somewhere recently, think it was to explain the rationale behind the 15 min addition in an Avery Brewing Maharaja IIPA clone, that commercial breweries, including micros, do not chill their wort in no time after the boil, they may whirlpool and let settle for ages, well over 30 mins before starting to chill so would end up with a temp profile not unlike no chill.

 

No chilling when homebrewing small batches, makes a lot of sense. No-chilling in a commercial environment? You'd be waiting for days for it to cool down, so of course they have to use chillers.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yep, that's exactly the reasoning behind why I think it's rather silly to move everything forward just because it's no chilled.

 

Whenever I brew someone else's recipe for the first time I just brew it as written. If it turns out too bitter, then I figure maybe they chilled it quickly after the boil and adjust if I brew it again. Or just ask them for a definitive answer.

 

In regards to commercial clones, the first time I brewed the SNPA clone recipe I didn't adjust anything for no-chilling and it was so close to the original beer I was really shocked. The only difference was in the colour due to using medium crystal instead of light crystal as it's all I had on hand.

[Wotto]

All done and its in the cube to cool til tomorrow. My efficiency seemed to only be 62% which is probably partly due to the grain crush from the store. They buy it in bulk already cracked and couldn't really tell me much about it. The post boil gravity was 1.035. I was tossing up the idea of putting in a few hundred grams of DME or dextrose when I pour it into the FV to boost the ABV up slightly...

[headmaster]

May have been milled a long time ago, the health of the enzymes I guess would decline more rapidly in that case, especially if not vacuum sealed, meaning lower efficiency but when the grain is old or compromised like this, I hear you can mash for longer, less enzymes but work them for more time. This is where your iodine starch test is a good idea. Can be done with a drop of idophor in a sample of wort.

[Wotto]

May have been milled a long time ago' date=' the health of the enzymes I guess would decline more rapidly in that case, especially if not vacuum sealed, meaning lower efficiency but when the grain is old or compromised like this, I hear you can mash for longer, less enzymes but work them for more time. This is where your iodine starch test is a good idea. Can be done with a drop of idophor in a sample of wort. [/quote']

 

Yeah possibly, but the shops only about 6 months old so I would've thought they wouldnt be too bad. I did a 90 minute mash, stirring twice and checking the temp plus a 10 minute mashout at 77. I didnt sparge, just hung the bag over another pot and squeezed it out while waiting for the urn to boil.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Seems an odd practice to buy bulk grain already milled. It keeps for a lot longer unmilled. Most brew shops buy it unmilled and simply crush to order. I never used that sort of thing myself, I bought a grain mill straight up so I could buy uncracked grain in bulk and just crush as needed for each batch. Works out cheaper in the long run too, and you can fine tune your crush to suit your system.

 

Headmaster might be onto something regarding that. Even if the shop is only 6 months old, if the grain you used is up near that age and been cracked the whole time then it won't be anywhere near as good as uncracked grain. Vacuum sealing would help, but storing it uncracked is better. I doubt your lower efficiency is due to not sparging, more likely be the condition of the grain and/or how it was crushed.

 

It might pay to add some LDM rather than dextrose in the FV. The hop schedule is designed around an OG of about 1.040-42, but using all malt, so it may end up too bitter if you either left it as is or used dextrose to top up the gravity points.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Wotto]

Seems an odd practice to buy bulk grain already milled. It keeps for a lot longer unmilled. Most brew shops buy it unmilled and simply crush to order. I never used that sort of thing myself' date=' I bought a grain mill straight up so I could buy uncracked grain in bulk and just crush as needed for each batch. Works out cheaper in the long run too, and you can fine tune your crush to suit your system.

 

Headmaster might be onto something regarding that. Even if the shop is only 6 months old, if the grain you used is up near that age and been cracked the whole time then it won't be anywhere near as good as uncracked grain. Vacuum sealing would help, but storing it uncracked is better. I doubt your lower efficiency is due to not sparging, more likely be the condition of the grain and/or how it was crushed.

 

It might pay to add some LDM rather than dextrose in the FV. The hop schedule is designed around an OG of about 1.040-42, but using all malt, so it may end up too bitter if you either left it as is or used dextrose to top up the gravity points.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey[/quote']

 

Thanks for that Kelsey. A mill is on the 'want' list, hopefully for chrissy! hint... hint...

I was a little surprised at buying bulk cracked grain too...

 

I'll chuck some LDM in to up the OG to 1.042 ish, Beersmith says 500gm should do the trick.

 

Andrew

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Good stuff! A year or so ago I wouldn't have recommended these, but now since they've changed the rollers I reckon the Mashmaster mills are the ducks. I've got a "hybrid" version as mine is one of the older style that came with knurled rollers, but one had to be replaced due to the mill not doing what it should have been doing. It was replaced with one of the new fluted rollers and it's bloody brilliant now. The new ones come with two fluted rollers so they'd be just as good if not better than my hybrid version.

 

All you have to do now is source some Caraaroma and brew the recipe properly

[Waylon]

I use 3 rollers works a dream but Its all Ive used

extra 60$ for better product I see...

 

Yeh baby Im half chopped at the moment ... to much beer in the bush

[Otto Von Blotto]

I did mention this in my kegging thread, but might as well mention it here too, that another batch of this was kegged earlier this week. These days I brew this recipe to only 21 litres, as I don't like bottle conditioning with English ale yeasts due to their tendency to keep slowly fermenting over time and overcarbing the beer. This is yet another variation on the original recipe, although not by much. I removed the Magnum bittering addition as it became too small to even bother with after scaling down the recipe.

 

Devil's Squaw Red Ale - 21L batch

 

OG: 1.0432

FG: 1.010

ABV: 4.3%

Bitterness: 38.2 IBUs

Color: 33.2 EBC

 

3.35kg Maris Otter

250g Caraaroma

85g Carapils (dunno why this is so low but anyway)

60g Black Patent

Mashed at 66.6C (how appropriate ) for 90 minutes, 78C mash out for 10 mins.

 

75 minute boil;

20g Cascade @ FWH - 22.8 IBUs

20g Centennial @ 20 mins - 15.4 IBUs

 

Fermented at 19C with Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire ale yeast. I love this yeast for English ales and this recipe as well, it turns out how I like it more than US-05 does.

 

I might chuck the original 25L recipe into Beersmith, at least the grain bill anyway, and then scale it down to 21L. Not sure what happened to it.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Otto Von Blotto]

Now I'm suitably confused. Just looked at the Beersmith file for this recipe from the last brewing of it and it's got 170g Carapils which is where it should be for 21 litres. WTF I wrote 85g on my brewsheet for I have no idea...

 

I did intentionally drop the Caraaroma down to 250g (scaled amount is 268g), and the black patent from 67g (scaled) to 60g, mainly just to lighten the colour a bit more from a deep dark red, to a more vibrant brighter red. Will see if it worked when I tap the keg!

[Beerlust]

Now I'm suitably confused. Just looked at the Beersmith file for this recipe from the last brewing of it and it's got 170g Carapils which is where it should be for 21 litres. WTF I wrote 85g on my brewsheet for I have no idea...

 

I did intentionally drop the Caraaroma down to 250g (scaled amount is 268g)' date=' and the black patent from 67g (scaled) to 60g, mainly just to lighten the colour a bit more from a deep dark red, to a more vibrant brighter red. Will see if it worked when I tap the keg![/quote']

When I brewed your Red Ale recipe, mine was a scaled down volume brew. The flavours were fine IMHO. I was happy with them.

 

On the CaraPils addition in your case, I've found this particular grain adds very little change in body unless you really up it. I too have had brews using it where I didn't notice it's influence as much as I thought I should have. It had me looking towards slightly higher EBC crystal grains such as CaraHell, & wheat based grains for head development etc.

 

Forgive my cynicism, but when looking through certain online recipes & commercial clones these days, I question the use of this crystal grain in some recipes & why it is being used.

 

Given it's low kilning, it obviously ferments at a higher percentage than many higher EBC crystal malt grains, so if you wish to use it to add body without adding colour, it probably needs to be used at higher weights comparative to other higher EBC crystal malt grains.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah my batches of this are now all scaled down from the original 25 litres to 21 litres and the ingredient amounts then just rounded to more sensible numbers. The Carapils was in the original recipe, for whatever reason. I probably didn't notice any real difference in the beer when it was missing and the MO increased by 200g, but while I still have it here I may as well use it in these brews.

 

I just don't know why I wrote down the wrong amount on my brew sheet. Oh well, the beer tasted perfectly fine on kegging day, just like it always does. That 1469 yeast kicks arse in it too.

[Beerlust]

...That 1469 yeast kicks arse in it too.

Excluding obvious rugby puns' date=' If I culminated all your recent posts about this yeast strain of late, some might construe it as being something bordering on being sexual in nature! [img']tongue[/img]

 

I however know you a little better than most on the forum & would never suggest such a thing.

 

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's alright, that side of things is taken care of excellently by SWMBO

 

It does happen to work very well in the styles I use it in to get the flavour profile I enjoy. Will probably experiment with others as well in time though.

[Beerlust]

That's alright' date=' that side of things is taken care of excellently by SWMBO [img']lol[/img]

We'll have to take your word for it on that one!

 

It does happen to work very well in the styles I use it in to get the flavour profile I enjoy. Will probably experiment with others as well in time though.

On the back of your recommendation(s)' date=' I plan to use it on a couple of recipes of mine leading into next Autumn/Winter. [img']cool[/img]

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Swill Bill]

I did mention this in my kegging thread' date=' but might as well mention it here too, that another batch of this was kegged earlier this week. These days I brew this recipe to only 21 litres, as I don't like bottle conditioning with English ale yeasts due to their tendency to keep slowly fermenting over time and overcarbing the beer. This is yet another variation on the original recipe, although not by much. I removed the Magnum bittering addition as it became too small to even bother with after scaling down the recipe.

 

Devil's Squaw Red Ale - 21L batch

 

OG: 1.0432

FG: 1.010

ABV: 4.3%

Bitterness: 38.2 IBUs

Color: 33.2 EBC

 

3.35kg Maris Otter

250g Caraaroma

85g Carapils (dunno why this is so low but anyway)

60g Black Patent

Mashed at 66.6C (how appropriate [img']lol[/img]) for 90 minutes, 78C mash out for 10 mins.

 

75 minute boil;

20g Cascade @ FWH - 22.8 IBUs

20g Centennial @ 20 mins - 15.4 IBUs

 

Fermented at 19C with Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire ale yeast. I love this yeast for English ales and this recipe as well, it turns out how I like it more than US-05 does.

 

I might chuck the original 25L recipe into Beersmith, at least the grain bill anyway, and then scale it down to 21L. Not sure what happened to it.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

 

Hey Kelsey looking at giving this one of yours a go but when I punch the figures in to Beersmith I get ABV 3.4% IBU's 31.1 Colour 26.9EBC. I just put the figures in without any adjustments and for a BIAB, full body. I'm obviously missing something.

[Wotto]

Hops AA% for the bitterness and brewhouse efficiency for the ABV??

[Otto Von Blotto]

AA% of the hops will affect the IBUs yes. The colour is different because the default EBC values in Beersmith for Caraaroma and black patent malt are too low. The Caraaroma should be more around 350-370EBC and the black patent 1300 EBC.

 

The ABV will come down to two things, primarily brewhouse efficiency (mine is 75%), and mash temp. The full body mash profile in Beersmith is a higher temp than the 66/67C I use in this recipe. I think I use medium body for it. The yeast choice will affect the FG as well, but usually not by enough to cause any change in ABV more than about 0.2%.

[Swill Bill]

Thanks guys I'll play around with Beersmith and make some adjustments.

 

Greg

[Otto Von Blotto]

The AA% for Cascade and Centennial for that particular brewing of the recipe is 7.8% and 10% respectively. My current lot of Cascade is 6.8% so I'll either use more of them or chuck in a small amount of Magnum as per the original recipe.

[Swill Bill]

The AA% for Cascade and Centennial for that particular brewing of the recipe is 7.8% and 10% respectively. My current lot of Cascade is 6.8% so I'll either use more of them or chuck in a small amount of Magnum as per the original recipe.

 

Yeah your bang on mate, made the adjustments with the brewhouse efficiency having a real contribution as well as the medium body mash. Still not understanding brewhouse efficiency as yet but to be honest haven't given it much thought at the moment as have other priorities. My current AA% for Cascade 6.3% and Centennial 10.4% and with my brewhouse at 70% gives me ABV 3.9% 30.8IBU's with 29.4EBC on colour. Ordered my grains and will pick them up on Thursday and hopefully whip it up sometime next week. Thanks for your help.

 

Cheers

 

Greg

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

You probably want the IBUs up more around 35-37. Make sure the Cascade addition is listed as first wort too.

 

Efficiency isn't too hard to work out, all you have to do is measure the SG and the volume of wort pre boil, and again once in the FV, then enter these figures into Beersmith. It then works it all out for you. I'd probably stick with 70% for now, and change ingredient amounts to hit the proper OG and IBU figures etc. The color rating in BS doesn't really matter, but it can be fixed by changing the EBC values of the grains to what they actually are. Either way if the recipe is brewed as written it will turn out the same color anyway.

[Wotto]

Hey Kelsey, I cracked this one tonight, probably a little early... it tastes like it needs maybe another week to mellow slightly, but otherwise its awesome. Even though I bastardised your recipe a bit, I'm a fan!