Otto Von Blotto Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 I was thinking that too Lusty, but I thought I'd let someone else say it. If you need to use up leftover lager tins, by all means, and yeah you could drop the Magnum. It's only in there as a bittering addition in my original recipe. However I do agree with the idea of using unhopped extract and doing the full hop schedule, this will likely get you closer to the intended flavour of the beer, and in other cases give you more input and control over the beers you brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Morning chaps -- thanks for the feedback. I probably should have mentioned it in my post, but Otto pretty much nailed it anyway: If you need to use up leftover lager tins... My attempt at Otto's recipe was really just an experiment to test both the adaptability of an OS Lager tin that I had to use up' date=' and to measure my current level of brewing skill (spoiler: I'm still a novice). I've already tasted the sweet, sweet fruits of extract brewing and now find myself in a position of having a cupboard full of kit tins that I should probably use up before I build up too much momentum with extracts. Just based on my experience with the RIS, I've ended up with a stack of recipes queued up that I can't wait to brew. At multiple stages during both brew day and fermentation, I had a few of those "Holy crap, this tastes way better than I thought it would!" moments, that I'm guessing I'll end up repeating when I finally get around to making my first AG batch. I'm thinking that using the OS Lager can is going to make the search for increased malt influence pretty hard. I know you asked about using a different can and perhaps a can like the English Bitter would help. Probably not a bad idea' date=' but I'd rather not accumulate any more kit tins if I can avoid it -- the call of extract is far too tempting! You could also do a mini mash with some Maris Otter, instead of LDM, and add that to the Lager kit. The other possible variant is to drop the Crystal and double the Cararoma. If I was going to the effort of a mini-mash, I'd rather just do a full extract batch (or AG, I guess), though I do like the idea of more CaraAroma. Alternatively, I guess I could experiment with the Gladfield malts, since our brew club has easy access to them and they're bloody delicious. I find the statement around bitterness a bit different considering the Lager kit isn't that bitter' date=' yet I don't brew 10.5 litre batches so I am unsure of the influence here from your late additions.[/quote']I'm pretty sure it's the result of a fairly hectic brew day; I overlooked adjusting my recipe for the AA% of the Centennial & Magnum I had on-hand, and was perhaps a little-heavy handed/imprecise with my dodgy set of kitchen scales. Realising the cost of my haste during clean-up, I re-ran calculations and estimated an IBU figure up around 45 (the actual figure is anyone's guess) -- with a calculated BV of over 2, it's no surprise that the bitterness is so prominent. Ah well... Rookie error and all that, but a good lesson for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 snipYou could also do a mini mash with some Maris Otter' date=' instead of LDM, and add that to the Lager kit. The other possible variant is to drop the Crystal and double the Cararoma.[/quote']If I was going to the effort of a mini-mash, I'd rather just do a full extract batch (or AG, I guess), though I do like the idea of more CaraAroma. Alternatively, I guess I could experiment with the Gladfield malts, since our brew club has easy access to them and they're bloody delicious. Hey Gibbo Don't underestimate the quality and versatility obtained when adding base grain to the Coopers Kit. I took an Australian Pale Ale and totally changed its characteristics with just Maris Otter addition, I only ever achieved this with Extracts when using larger amounts of darker speciality grains . If you have kits left over adding base grain, whether it be Gladfield Malt or Joe White (be a patriot), will deliver some very satisfying results. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 HI guys, Digging up an old thread here but only because it's relative to this post. I currently have another red ale in the FV cold crashing, which is yet another variation on my original recipe, due to not having all the ingredients necessary for the original version. This one is as follows: 4.000 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 87.5 % 0.300 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (380.7 EBC) Grain 2 6.6 % 0.200 kg Caramalt (Thomas Fawcett) (29.6 EBC) Grain 3 4.4 % 0.070 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) Grain 4 1.5 % 10.00 g Mosaic (11.70 %) - First Wort 75.0 min Hop 5 13.6 IBUs 8.00 g Magnum (12.20 %) - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 9.9 IBUs 20.00 g Centennial (10.00 %) - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 12.3 IBUs 1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 8 - 30.00g Centennial (10.00%) - Dry Hop 0.0 Days I used a standard single infusion mash at around 66-67C on this one for 90 minutes, with a 75 minute boil, and ended up with 23L in the FV at 1039 OG, which is down a couple of points but whatever. FG is 1010 so giving me 3.8% ABV in the keg, a nice sessionable ale. I also used some CaCl to accentuate the maltiness a bit more. FG sample tastings were promising so I'm looking forward to getting this one on tap and seeing how it goes. I will order some Cascade hops in my next order, and also pick up some Carapils from CB on my next visit, so that next time I brew this thing I can do the original version again. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I revisited my kit-based version of this, and while I missed the mark as far as the original recipe was concerned, this brew has turned into one hell of a Red IPA / India Red Ale. Cheers Otto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 No dramas mate! May not be in line with the original recipe/beer but it sounds like it's worked out to be a good base for a beer like that which is pretty cool. Glad to hear it turned out well. This reminds me also I forgot to come back and update this - I've had a few glasses out of this keg over the couple of weeks or however long it's been in there now and it is a lot closer to the original version than other ones I've done. I'm guessing the Centennial dry hop may have something to do with it. Can't remember what I used in some previous batches that deviated more, but this batch is almost back to how it should be. Next time I'll be brewing it with Cascade hops again so that should get it back to exactly how I remember it. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 A little update on the latest batch of this recipe, which pretty much got back to the original recipe although I haven't dry hopped it yet, still deciding whether to or not. This batch was fermented with Wy1318 London Ale III yeast. So, this one has been in the FV for a week now and I am reasonably certain that it has hit FG, albeit a little higher than predicted, but will check again tomorrow. It certainly took off quickly and a day 4 sample was pretty close to FG; it hasn't dropped much since. Anywho, the taste on this sample is very different from the ones fermented with US-05. Much more malty and really bringing out the flavour from the Caraaroma grains. It's funny how much difference something like yeast can make. If it has hit FG I will start cold crashing it tomorrow and then go through my usual finings additions over a week or so before kegging/bottling it. Maybe I should do the dry hop just to get a little hop aroma in there. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Heya Kelsey. I'm glad you noticed the increase in malt flavour as it was the main reason I suggested trying the 1318 on your Red Ale recipe. I know you've only tasted a flat, warm sample, but for the fact you picked up the increased malt flavour, did you like it? or would you prefer to make that call once it's carbed, cold & in the glass? I get the impression you feel it's come up a little sweeter than you would like? Any idea on what your FG is/will be with this yeast compared with your US-05 brews with the recipe? Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hey Lusty, I'll probably make the call definitely once it's carbonated and chilled in the glass, yeah. Being flat, it always tastes sweeter than when it's properly carbonated. Definitely more malt presence, although I also chucked in some CaCl to the mash water, which increases maltiness as well. Perhaps next go I'll leave that out but keep the same yeast. It's hard to say whether it's too sweet yet, obviously due to it being flat and warm etc. so I will reserve judgement on that until it's properly ready. Beersmith predicted an FG of 1.010 for this batch, and it doesn't appear to be quite there yet. It was reading about 1.013. That sample I took earlier is still bubbling away like it's fermenting (it has formed a small layer of bubbles on the surface) and the krausen on the batch itself hasn't quite subsided yet. Given you've used this yeast previously, how long generally has it taken to hit FG? The OG in this case was 1.042, it's been in there 7 days now, and I raised the temperature up to 22 about 3 days ago. Seems to be taking its sweet time about things. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I've only used the 1318 on my Mosaic Amber recipe thus far, & one of the reasons I chose it in the first place is that it is described as finishing slightly sweet. Originating from a traditional London brewery' date=' this yeast has a wonderful malt and hop profile. It is a true top cropping strain with a fruity, very light and softly balanced palate. This strain will finish slightly sweet.[/quote']My brews finished slightly higher by a point (or two at most) above what a yeast like US-05 would with the same brew. At least from the yeast perspective, this is where I believe the added sweetness stems from, because as you've seen from pictures I've posted, it produces a beautiful clean, clear beer without filtration or the use of clarifying agents. Good move elevating the temp but don't be surprised if it still finishes a little higher FG-wise than your US-05 brews have, as I believe it is supposed to. In my limited uses with top cropping yeast strains the krausen appears quite stubborn to drop by itself & I know with this strain I have to give the outside of the FV a good ol' fashion PB2 style spoon whacking to dislodge the krausen! If inadvertently the beer does end up a little sweet, then of course I feel responsible as I advised this yeast to you with your Red Ale recipe. Just know my aim was to increase the malt character of the beer, not necessarily the sweetness, & as a fair generalization, the British yeasts do this better than the cleaner US styled strains. I'd dry hop it btw. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yeah I normally hit about 1.009 with US-05 on this recipe, although the last one finished at 1.010. Having said that, I now know my hydrometer is reading two points lower than the actual SG, but not sure how long this has been the case, so it may have really been 1.012. That being said the current SG of this batch is somewhere around 1.014/15. I'm not sure if it's finished or not. Noted about the krausen so won't take too much notice of that, but this foamy layer in the hydro sample and constant bubbling suggests it's still fermenting - normally there is no foaming apart from what is there when the sample is first taken from the tap. I'm happy to give it more time though, since I've got this gas leak issue to sort out anyway... Ah well, if it turns out too sweet I'll just blame you and add more bittering hops next time I brew it I do like the extra malt influence in it though so I'm happy to stick with this yeast and fine tune the recipe to get it more balanced to my palate. After all, this is how we learn how different ingredients affect a beer. I reckon I will chuck in that dry hop tomorrow too. I'd do it now but I just can't be bothered Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Ah well' date=' if it turns out too sweet I'll just blame you and add more bittering hops next time I brew it [img']tongue[/img] I do like the extra malt influence in it though so I'm happy to stick with this yeast and fine tune the recipe to get it more balanced to my palate. After all, this is how we learn how different ingredients affect a beer. I've got broad shoulders, so happy to take the blame for unwanted sweetness. You post some nice recipes & if I've at least opened your eyes to using some British yeasts in some cases, then it will have really been worth any of the negatives I'll wear from this brewing of the Red Ale. I can't wait to get this TC Porter beer brewing with the 1728. Only used it once on the Amber Ale & just know it would be awesome in a darker, richer malted beer like my oaked vanilla porter. Such is my excitement about this brew, a bit of wee might come out if I don't get this happening soon! Too much information? I reckon I will chuck in that dry hop tomorrow too. I'd do it now but I just can't be bothered I'm hearin' ya! Weather combined with work this past week or so has been oppressive here again in Adelaide. I should have put my Centennial/Motueka dry hop in my current brew yesterday' date=' but I was so knackered when I got home last night, I just couldn't be bothered. I'll likely add it at some point this evening...............maybe. [img']wink[/img] Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I've got broad shoulders' date=' so happy to take the blame for unwanted sweetness. You post some nice recipes & if I've at least opened your eyes to using some British yeasts in some cases, then it will have really been worth any of the negatives I'll wear from this brewing of the Red Ale.[/quote'] I agree, although I also think the addition of CaCl has contributed to this accentuated maltiness, given that's the intention of it. Perhaps I overdid it in this case given the yeast being used. The good thing is, the flavour isn't a sickly sweet, it's more that toffee/caramel flavour that I do like in these beers, but perhaps just a little too prominent. In saying that, I can't really make a definitive call on that until it's chilled and carbonated. I can't wait to get this TC Porter beer brewing with the 1728. Only used it once on the Amber Ale & just know it would be awesome in a darker' date=' richer malted beer like my oaked vanilla porter. Such is my excitement about this brew, a bit of wee might come out if I don't get this happening soon! [img']lol[/img] Too much information? Maybe a little too much info there. but I am interested to hear how that brew turns out. I daresay next time I brew my porter I will use the 1318 on it. I'd be interested to try other British ale yeasts as well, but I prefer to only keep 2-3 strains in the fridge at any one time so they don't end up dying from lack of use. I must remember to make up a small starter for the Urquell lager yeast tomorrow to keep its viability up, and also test out my new stir plate. And yeah... it's been reasonably hot here too, I've been on holidays but by the time it hits around that sunset time, I just lose all motivation to do anything other than watch TV, sit on here and have a few brews. Should have done the dry hop earlier today but anyway. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree' date=' although I also think the addition of CaCl has contributed to this accentuated maltiness, given that's the intention of it. Perhaps I overdid it in this case given the yeast being used. The good thing is, the flavour isn't a sickly sweet, it's more that toffee/caramel flavour that I do like in these beers, but perhaps just a little too prominent. In saying that, I can't really make a definitive call on that until it's chilled and carbonated.[/quote']I haven't experienced the effects of water profiling in a home-brewed beer, but if you claim it has an impact here, I'm happy to accept your usage of it as at least part of the blame for the unwanted sweetness. I daresay next time I brew my porter I will use the 1318 on it. I'd be interested to try other British ale yeasts as well' date=' but I prefer to only keep 2-3 strains in the fridge at any one time so they don't end up dying from lack of use. I must remember to make up a small starter for the Urquell lager yeast tomorrow to keep its viability up, and also test out my new stir plate.[/quote']I'd happily use the 1318 on a darker beer like a Porter or Stout & know it will produce a great beer. The 1728 brew only came about from my discussions over on the Brew UK forum I also mingle on. It was suggested as an option to me by one of the members, so I tried it. The flavours it threw on my Amber Ale told me enough that it was a yeast I should use on a darker brew. It throws some lovely Belgiany-like malt characters & a smokey (yes smokey) character if used with certain malt mixes. Perfect for a Porter I would think, that's why I'm near wetting myself about that brew. Whatever you do, don't mention this yeast to Porschemad911 as he is already Belgianing himself to death with his current brews, so much so that it may already be affecting his health given a post from him hasn't been sighted on the forum for around a week! Very unlike him! Happy New Year Kelsey! Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 I think it would have to have some effect on it. I definitely noticed a difference in flavour in two pilsner batches that were brewed with untreated tap water and my distilled water + minerals added back, respectively. The latter was better. This is why I want to brew the exact same recipe again next time but without that water addition, and see what happens. I reckon it would produce a decent beer too; previous batches of that porter recipe of mine were all done with S-04, so it has never been done with an American yeast. I want to stick to the English yeasts on it. I might even try the 1728 myself at some point... the smokey character sounds interesting and possibly suited to a dark beer like that. So many things to try, so little time. Yeah he has been scarce of late... probably that time of year I suppose but your reasoning sounds much more amusing. Happy new year to you too mate! Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Whatever you do' date=' don't mention this yeast to Porschemad911 as he is already Belgianing himself to death with his current brews, so much so that it may already be affecting his health given a post from him hasn't been sighted on the forum for around a week! Very unlike him! [img']tongue[/img] Yeah he has been scarce of late... probably that time of year I suppose but your reasoning sounds much more amusing. I'm still alive, but only just considering the amount of wine that's been consumed over the last week! Just got back from Adelaide celebrating my Nanna's 90th and a family Christmas with plenty of catching up with extended family. A nice cold Balmain Pale Ale never tasted so good ... oooh and my Saison should be carbonated by now, better chuck one in the fridge. Oh and I'll need to get onto brewing my Belgo-esque pale ale pretty soon! Hope my harvested yeast survived in the fridge (at least it hasn't blown up at any rate). Happy New Year to you both! And Kelsey, sounds like it's on track to be a good one. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Good to know you've survived the recent Belgianing! Happy New Year John! Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 This latest batch is in the keg, well it has been for about a week now. It is now carbonated, or at least enough to be enjoyable. That sweetness that I noted in the FG samples has subsided since the carbonation has occurred, and it is now a rather enjoyable drop. I think with this yeast, it could use either slightly more hops, or none of the calcium chloride that I added to the water for this batch. I'll experiment, as I'm enjoying the toffee/caramel sweetness coming through a bit more than it does with the US-05. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 ...That sweetness that I noted in the FG samples has subsided since the carbonation has occurred' date=' and it is now a rather enjoyable drop. I think with this yeast, it could use either slightly more hops, or none of the calcium chloride that I added to the water for this batch. I'll experiment, as I'm enjoying the toffee/caramel sweetness coming through a bit more than it does with the US-05. [/quote']BINGO! A more malt friendly yeast. I can tell it's possibly still a tad sweet for you on the palate, but you can now clearly see (& taste) the advantage of the English strains over the US-05 with a recipe like this, & that is all I wanted you to taste for yourself. Your adjustments based on that brew are good & I agree with them. Don't rule out trying another British strain that leaves a drier finish where you may NOT need to adjust anything in your recipe. Something like the Wyeast 1335 sounds ideal. In the styles it is recommended for brewing with, strangely enough, "Irish Red Ale" is one of those mentioned. I've not used this yeast strain myself as yet, & only recently stumbled upon it when looking for a recommendation for an alternative yeast to the CCA strain for a fellow brewer here on the forum that wanted something similar because they didn't wish to go through the bottle re-activation process. This strain on the surface appeared to have similar qualities (IMHO). I recommended the 1318 to you because I have firsthand knowledge of its properties & knew it would be more malt friendly to what is essentially a malt driven beer recipe. If you found it a bit sweet, take that aspect out of the final beer by using a yeast that throws a drier finish but maintains a good malt friendly aspect like the 1335. Having tasted your Red Ale recipe, I reckon your recipe is fine Kelsey. Just find a yeast that suits it, & takes it to that next level. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes, it has definitely lent a different flavour to the beer. It probably is a tad sweet, although I'm putting that down partly to the water salt addition as well - that stuff does accentuate maltiness. Next batch I'll leave it out and just use the straight tap water like the recipe had always been done with and see how that goes. If it's still too sweet, I'll just bump up the bittering addition a touch. I'll definitely give that 1335 a go on it as well, and when I do I'll go back to the original recipe if I have tinkered with it, but I'll do a few brews with the 1318 first, just to get a few uses out of it, otherwise I'll end up with 400 jars of yeast in the fridge and throw them all out because they'd died from lack of use. I suppose when I first came up with the recipe, it was designed to be similar to an APA just with a darker colour, which is why I used US-05 on it, but when I tasted the influence of the Caraaroma, it became more of a malt driven recipe I guess. Either way, I'm happy with the recipe itself, so as you say now it's just about finding a yeast that gives me what I'm looking for in the final product. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Good stuff this drop. No carapils in mine as I didn't have any. Like it, nice one bud. Time for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Cheers mate glad you're enjoying it too. I have made it without Carapils in the past as well for the same reason, still turned out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo 1525229558 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 G'day Kelsey. I've just been & picked up my ingredients for your Red Ale recipe that I'll put down on brew day Sunday. The malt bill I'm using is the one I listed in Post#17' date=' but using 60gms of roasted barley. The hop bill I have followed almost exactly, except I'm using some Warrior in place of the small Magnum addition. Cascade (6.7%AA) 20gms @ FWH Warrior (15.1%AA) 5gms @ 60mins Centennial (8.2%AA) 20gms @ 20mins Cascade 30gms dry hopped. US-05 yeast Brewed to [b']23[/b] litres Ferment @ 18°C. EBC = 34.2 IBU = 34.6 (close enough) Looking forward to both the brew day, & the beer! Cheers & thanks for sharing, Lusty. Hey Brewers. I am looking at putting down this Red Ale recipe!!! It looks amazing. Can i substitute the Warrior bittering addition for Galaxy (11-16 AA) or Falconers Flight (10-12 AA)? Save me buying 100gm of Warrior to use 10gm of it. I wouldn't mind using hops i haven't used before. Motueka? Simcoe? Could these work? Dingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I am looking at putting down this Red Ale recipe!!! It looks amazing. Can i substitute the Warrior bittering addition for Galaxy (11-16 AA) or Falconers Flight (10-12 AA)? Save me buying 100gm of Warrior to use 10gm of it. Don't use the Galaxy as it has a harsh bitterness apparently. There is a thing called co-humolene... high levels tend to give unpleasant bitterness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Follow the recipies Galaxy is fine for bittering in small doses... Try a single hopped IPA they arn't bad Ive tried my mates galaxy single hop it was bloody nice! I agree some hops SUCH AS CITRA are harsh in bittering but galaxy single hop is nice... Try yourself no point following someones advice that's never tried it buddy... Personally im not a fan of magnum! Yet its everyones go to bittering hop! Ide rather use centennial in most my American ales and goldings in my English ales... Personal choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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