First time brewer - English Bitter advice

[lickedthestamp]

Hi there

Have finally decided to take the plunge and have a go at brewing my own beer - being in Stage 4 lockdown and seeing the Coopers 23l kit on special was what tipped me over the edge 

After living in London for quite a few years and gaining a taste for the English ales while there, have decided for my first attempt to have a go at brewing using the Coopers English Bitter kit. I did like the sound of the Extra Smooth Bitter recipe so was intending to give that a go - seems pretty straightforward for a first timer. However after reading a bit on these forums I have a few questions that I wouldn't mind getting some advice on to help firm up how I am going to proceed with ESB brew No.1.

• ESB recipe says to use 1kg of BE1 but I have read quite a few posts saying that 1kg of LDM would give a superior result. Would using LDM give a reduced alcohol content compared to using BE1? Or no difference?
• ESB recipe also calls for 200g of molasses, but the molasses I have generally seen available tend to be blackstrap - which from my reading isn't the best molasses to use (too high an iron content). I am thinking treacle or golden syrup would be fine to substitute (colour would be lighter with the golden syrup but treacle would probably give a stronger flavour) but quantity (200g) should still be similar?
• Finally, recipe calls for using 2 carbonating drops per bottle or just 1 per bottle if you intend to store for longer - have people found 2 drops for the EB brews to be fine? As in not too much carbonation? And if you were storing for longer, how long would that be where only using 1 drop is required? >6 months? >1 yr?

I know I should just jump on in and give it a go but any suggestions/advice appreciated! 

Cheers

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

That’s a great kit that one.

The Battleship Bitter uses that kit and is a cracker of a recipe as well.

[Shamus O'Sean]

17 minutes ago, lickedthestamp said:

• ESB recipe says to use 1kg of BE1 but I have read quite a few posts saying that 1kg of LDM would give a superior result. Would using LDM give a reduced alcohol content compared to using BE1? Or no difference?
• ESB recipe also calls for 200g of molasses, but the molasses I have generally seen available tend to be blackstrap - which from my reading isn't the best molasses to use (too high an iron content). I am thinking treacle or golden syrup would be fine to substitute (colour would be lighter with the golden syrup but treacle would probably give a stronger flavour) but quantity (200g) should still be similar?
• Finally, recipe calls for using 2 carbonating drops per bottle or just 1 per bottle if you intend to store for longer - have people found 2 drops for the EB brews to be fine? As in not too much carbonation? And if you were storing for longer, how long would that be where only using 1 drop is required? >6 months? >1 yr?

Hi LTS and welcome to the forum.

My thoughts on your questions:

• Probably not much ABV difference between BE1 and LDM.  LDM would be a better flavour.
• I cannot really help on this question, other than to support your research that blackstrap molasses might be problematic.
• I think this depends on how long you take to get through a brew and how long you intend to store your brew.  If you think you will drink half of your bottles within 6 months then prime them with two carb drops.  If you intend to leave the other half for more than six months, then carb them with one carb drop.  I did something like this with the Russian Imperial Stout.

[lickedthestamp]

15 minutes ago, NewBrews said:

That’s a great kit that one.

The Battleship Bitter uses that kit and is a cracker of a recipe as well.

Yeah I definitely have my eye on that recipe, but figured I would keep it simple for the first one - baby steps and all that!

12 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Hi LTS and welcome to the forum.

My thoughts on your questions:

• Probably not much ABV difference between BE1 and LDM.  LDM would be a better flavour.
• I cannot really help on this question, other than to support your research that blackstrap molasses might be problematic.
• I think this depends on how long you take to get through a brew and how long you intend to store your brew.  If you think you will drink half of your bottles within 6 months then prime them with two carb drops.  If you intend to leave the other half for more than six months, then carb them with one carb drop.  I did something like this with the Russian Imperial Stout.

Thanks Shamus

I did think about doing half the batch with 2 drops and the other half with just one, but wasn't sure on what timeframes priming with one drop would suit. As for how long I take to get through a brew, I have no idea - I guess it will all depend on just how successful this first attempt is! 

[Malter White]

Dan Murphy currently are offering English Bitter with 500g LDM for $20. You need a member card. Membership is free.
I've made this bundle without any other additions. While the ABV was more mid-strength range the flavour was very full.

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_B999999000778/coopers-home-brew-english-ale-bundle

[Lab Cat]

12 hours ago, lickedthestamp said:

ESB recipe also calls for 200g of molasses, but the molasses I have generally seen available tend to be blackstrap - which from my reading isn't the best molasses to use (too high an iron content).

My advice is do not use molasses. I wasted a whole batch doing the ESB recipe with blackstrap. It was foul and even the sink hated it.

I like the EB with a kilo of malt, but 200g or so of dark brown sugar added a well can help bring up some more caramel flavour

Edited August 13, 2020 by Lab Cat

[lickedthestamp]

8 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Dan Murphy currently are offering English Bitter with 500g LDM for $20. You need a member card. Membership is free.
I've made this bundle without any other additions. While the ABV was more mid-strength range the flavour was very full.

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_B999999000778/coopers-home-brew-english-ale-bundle

Yeah I bought one of those with the DIY kit, and have bought another EB/LDM bundle as well - it's a pretty good deal as you basically get the LDM for $2

So that will give me the 1kg of LDM I need for this ESB recipe and another EB kit for when I attempt the Battleship Bitter in due course 

[lickedthestamp]

6 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

My advice is do not use molasses. I wasted a whole batch doing the ESB recipe with blackstrap. It was foul and even the sink hated it.

I like the EB with a kilo of malt, but 200g or so of dark brown sugar added a well can help bring up some more caramel flavour

Thanks Lab Cat - it was your posts that pretty much turned me off the idea of using blackstrap molasses  We already have a jar of golden syrup in the cupboard so am leaning towards that at the moment - maybe I need to dig deeper into the missus' cooking ingedients and see if she has any dark brown sugar lying about...

I was also going to ask - no issues with adding extra sugars to a kit brew when using 1kg of LDM already? Just that I have read the 7g of yeast you get in the kit is only enough to do the added kilo, but as the ESB recipe called for 200g of molasses anyway I assume it's no problem. Does it mean that it just takes a bit longer to ferment and/or condition in the bottle than if you didn't add it?

[Lab Cat]

19 minutes ago, lickedthestamp said:

I was also going to ask - no issues with adding extra sugars to a kit brew when using 1kg of LDM already? Just that I have read the 7g of yeast you get in the kit is only enough to do the added kilo, but as the ESB recipe called for 200g of molasses anyway I assume it's no problem. Does it mean that it just takes a bit longer to ferment and/or condition in the bottle than if you didn't add it?

A second yeast is only needed for a high gravity beer. Others will have the accurate numbers on what is 'high'. I think the kit yeast should be fine with 1.2kg. 

My rule of thumb is if I'm adding 1.5kg or more of fermentables, then I'll pitch extra yeast. I don't calculate that either, as often I'm using harvested slurry, so I just add more. I probably give the real brewers on here nightmares.

[lickedthestamp]

Ok so got my very first brew going in the FV now

In the end I decided to substitute the molasses with golden syrup, as we had that in the cupboard already and saved me venturing out to the shops. OG was 1.040. Pitched the yeast at 22º which was slightly higher than I intended to but didn't quite get my temps right when adding the water. FV has settled down to about 19/20º at the moment, the ambient room temp is currently 18.5º and will likely cool 2-3º overnight so will probably wrap the FV in a blanket to hopefully keep it above 18º.

Not a whole lot of krausen happening yet, just a small amount of the surface - as it's my first time doing this I've no idea how much/how quick/how long. Given the recipe says fermentation will take at least 10 days I expect this is a bit of a slow burner?

[Titan]

15 hours ago, lickedthestamp said:

Ok so got my very first brew going in the FV now

In the end I decided to substitute the molasses with golden syrup, as we had that in the cupboard already and saved me venturing out to the shops. OG was 1.040. Pitched the yeast at 22º which was slightly higher than I intended to but didn't quite get my temps right when adding the water. FV has settled down to about 19/20º at the moment, the ambient room temp is currently 18.5º and will likely cool 2-3º overnight so will probably wrap the FV in a blanket to hopefully keep it above 18º.

Not a whole lot of krausen happening yet, just a small amount of the surface - as it's my first time doing this I've no idea how much/how quick/how long. Given the recipe says fermentation will take at least 10 days I expect this is a bit of a slow burner?

When did you pitch the yeast?

[lickedthestamp]

11 minutes ago, Titan said:

When did you pitch the yeast?

About midday yesterday, so a bit over 24 hrs ago. Now has about 1cm of krausen and I can see it bubbling on the top. There is also a bit of swirling/movement/fine bubbling going on in the wort itself too. Brew temp is about 19º, ambient room temp is 18.2º. So seems to be rocking along just fine now  

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by lickedthestamp

[lickedthestamp]

Ok so Sunday the brew seemed to be kicking on ok with the krausen forming and activity going on in the wort. I have the FV in the laundry and had been keeping the laundry door to the rest of the house open (so as to allow the warmer air in and keep the ambient temp up a bit), but monday morning I noticed that the laundry door was shut - I think the missus closed it prior to going to bed  I had wrapped the krausen in a thick towel but when I had removed it the krausen had dropped about half, and there was not a whole lot of activity going on in the wort. The thermometer on the FV was showing 17/18º, ambient temp at the time in the room was 15.6º. I thought that perhaps the brew may have stalled, so I have tried over the last day or so keeping the ambient temps up in the room so that it wasn't below 18º ambient even at night, and generally up to around 20º through the day - but the krausen has dropped even further to only maybe 1-2mm - clearing a bit around the edge - and there is no visible activity going on in the wort. Brew temp has been showing around 19/20º all day today.

Am I right in thinking it has stalled, or is this fairly normal behaviour for an ale? Only basically 1 day of krausen action seems short?

Edited August 18, 2020 by lickedthestamp

[Shamus O'Sean]

Measure your Specific Gravity SG with a hydrometer today.  Check it in 24 hours.  Hopefully it has dropped.

[Lab Cat]

45 minutes ago, lickedthestamp said:

Am I right in thinking it has stalled, or is this fairly normal behaviour for an ale? Only basically 1 day of krausen action seems short?

Beer has not rhyme or reason. I've had krasusen til bottling, and others barely noticeable and last 12 hours. HYDROMETER.

[lickedthestamp]

22 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Measure your Specific Gravity SG with a hydrometer today.  Check it in 24 hours.  Hopefully it has dropped.

 

13 minutes ago, Lab Cat said:

Beer has not rhyme or reason. I've had krasusen til bottling, and others barely noticeable and last 12 hours. HYDROMETER.

Thanks guys - the penny just dropped! I was intending to do a SG reading at about the supposed halfway point (so Day 5-ish) anyway, will take one tomorrow and then another a day later and see what that tells me 

Edited August 18, 2020 by lickedthestamp

[lickedthestamp]

Ok so this has got me scratching my head.

Took a SG reading this morning, and it showed 1004  Brew temp is 19º, ambient temp is 19.4º. Currently day 5 - the Coopers ESB recipe said fermentation should take approx 10 days and FG should be around 1012 when complete. OG was 1040 and at about the same time I had checked the hydrometer against room temp water (approx 20º) had a SG of pretty much 1000, so seemed to be accurate? Now when I check it this time with room temp water (ambient currently 19.4º) it is showing SG of 996. If I adjust the SG reading of the brew to allow for the hydrometer to be reading low by about 4, that only makes the SG about 1008?

Sample had a nice bit of head on it - had to de-gas the sample to take a reading, and made sure the surface was clear of bubbles. 

I will take another reading tomorrow and see if is still dropping, but thinking it maybe would be worthwhile to get another hydrometer - even just as a backup.

Edited August 19, 2020 by lickedthestamp
Add pic

[Lab Cat]

is the Hydrometer fully suspended in the beer?

At day 5 it's very likely done. Coopers instructions are designed to keep things simple. I haven't brewed any beer that would take 10 days.

[lickedthestamp]

Thanks Lab Cat - yes I made sure the hydrometer was fully suspended (have marked the level I need to fill the measuring flask up to  ) Just weird that it seemed to read ok the first time but now seems to be reading differently.

I will take a few SG readings over the next few days to see if it is stable at least. If it has indeed finished, is it best to leave it sit for a few days to allow the wort to settle prior to bottling?

[Stickers]

6 hours ago, lickedthestamp said:

I will take another reading tomorrow and see if is still dropping, but thinking it maybe would be worthwhile to get another hydrometer - even just as a backup.

my first batch took about two weeks and i suspect the first hydrometer i had was giving me bad readings so i grabbed a second and my second batch was good to go within a week. my newer one gives a little sound when i shake it and the first one does not, still no idea if that means anything though. when i do SG readings with this new batch i'll test with both but i'll be trusting the newer one. (both coopers brand ones from starter kits)

[lickedthestamp]

2 hours ago, Stickers said:

my first batch took about two weeks and i suspect the first hydrometer i had was giving me bad readings so i grabbed a second and my second batch was good to go within a week. my newer one gives a little sound when i shake it and the first one does not, still no idea if that means anything though. when i do SG readings with this new batch i'll test with both but i'll be trusting the newer one. (both coopers brand ones from starter kits)

FWIW mine makes a bit of a rattle when shaken - like it has a small ball bearing inside it or something.

[lickedthestamp]

Took another SG reading this morning, and it gave the same result as yesterday - 1004. Just to make sure the hydrometer was reading the same as yesterday, I again sampled some room temp water (ambient was 19.5º) and it gave the same reading as yesterday as well - 996.  So fermentation indeed seems to be done  I am going to call the FG reading 1008 (allowing for the hydrometer reading low by 4), which gives an alcohol percentage of about 4.3% - a bit higher than the recipe indicated but not sure if that is a result of using LDM (instead of BE1), golden syrup instead of molasses or possibly just the hydrometer not necessarily reading 100%.

So I now have 29 bottles of ESB Brew No.1 stored away for conditioning, going to try and give it a month before opening one up to see how it tastes after being in the bottle a while 

In the meantime I noticed that one of my favourite beers of all time - St Peters Ruby Red Ale - comes as a brew kit, and can be had locally. So it's possible I may have kinda ordered one for delivery... 

[Journeyman]

19 hours ago, lickedthestamp said:

(ambient was 19.5º) and it gave the same reading as yesterday as well - 996.  So fermentation indeed seems to be done  I am going to call the FG reading 1008 (allowing for the hydrometer reading low by 4)

At 0.996 it's actually only .002 down from what it should be. Water is at its densest at 4°C and that's the 1.000 mark. At 20° it should read 0.998.

[lickedthestamp]

Thanks @Journeyman - I thought I had read that SG of water should be 1000 at about 20°C but I must've gotten that one wrong. I guess even with 998 as the correct baseline reading, it will still be the same difference (4) - just the first reading was out by +2 and the second one was out by -2. Just means I really need to get a second hydrometer so I can hopefully get some certainty on the readings.

[Hairy]

1 minute ago, lickedthestamp said:

Thanks @Journeyman - I thought I had read that SG of water should be 1000 at about 20°C

Me too.