AJS83 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Hi all I put down some European Lager 2 weeks ago. My barometer reading has been stable for the last couple of days, soot is almost ready to bottle. However, I am concerned as It has a very dark colour and smells quite vinegary. Is it worth bottling? Please see attached picture and thank you in advance for any advice/suggestions. Edited July 22, 2020 by AJS83 Add photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, AJS83 said: Hi all I put down some European Lager 2 weeks ago. My barometer reading has been stable for the last couple of days, soot is almost ready to bottle. However, I am concerned as It has a very dark colour and smells quite vinegary. Is it worth bottling? Please see attached picture and thank you in advance for any advice/suggestions. Looks awfully dark for the euro lager tin unless you used a can of dark extract with it. Vinegar is not good. Thats a sign of acetobacter contamination. You usually get that when you expose the beer to oxygen and it eats the ethanol. Have a taste test mate. If it doesn't taste like beer then you might have to tip it but let us know the recipe and the steps you took when brewing and will see if we can get you on the right path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Yep, need to know your ingredients and process first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 Hi, thank your for your replies. My process was to add the extract heated in warm water ( to make it easier to get out of the can), then to add it to the fermenter along with 1 litre of boiling water. I then mixed that in and added 1kg of the Coppers Dry Malt. Then I topped it up with 22 litres of regular tap water. It was initially sitting on about 22c for the first few hours, then it was down to room temp which was 8c. I have stored the fermenter in the laundry as it is the coldest area of the house and it has remained at this temp for the past 2 weeks. All of my equipment had been sanitised prior to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 I have decided to chuck it when I get home later. It looks and tastes wrong. I will repeat the recipe and see what happens this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journeyman Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 45 minutes ago, AJS83 said: I have decided to chuck it when I get home later. It looks and tastes wrong. I will repeat the recipe and see what happens this time. Make sure you give that FV a bloody good clean and sanitise. Also, no removing the lid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 22 hours ago, AJS83 said: My barometer reading has been stable for the last couple of days, Use a hydrometer next time.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Thanks. Sorry I meant to say hydrometer. I am not sure how it got infected, as I cleansed everything throughly. It was only my 3rd attempt. The first two were a reasonable success. I guess it’s just bad luck. I will try, try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, AJS83 said: Thanks. Sorry I meant to say hydrometer. I am not sure how it got infected, as I cleansed everything throughly. It was only my 3rd attempt. The first two were a reasonable success. I guess it’s just bad luck. I will try, try again. Hey mate. Reading your process and recipe you didn't really do anything really wrong. Don't lose heart with it. A couple of pointers though. If you do a euro lager again then do this. Get yourself 2 2 litre coke or water bottles. Clean and sanitise them. Put 360gm of your dry malt in a pot with 3.6 litres of water. Boil it on your stove for 5 minutes and then cool it down to 20 degrees in your sink with cold water. Put it into the 2 coke bottles then add half the yeast packet to each bottle. Swirl it up a little. Put the cap on the bottles but dont tighten it. Leave it loose. Do this about 36 hours before you make your batch. Then do what you did before adding the can with the rest of your malt etc then tip in the coke bottles. You will get a great ferment from that and don't open the lid. Just let it go and take your hydrometer readings after about 6 or 7 days. I think you wont get any issues then. Edited July 23, 2020 by Greeny1525229549 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 45 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said: Hey mate. Reading your process and recipe you didn't really do anything really wrong. Don't lose heart with it. A couple of pointers though. If you do a euro lager again then do this. Get yourself 2 2 litre coke or water bottles. Clean and sanitise them. Put 360gm of your dry malt in a pot with 3.6 litres of water. Boil it on your stove for 5 minutes and then cool it down to 20 degrees in your sink with cold water. Put it into the 2 coke bottles then add half the yeast packet to each bottle. Swirl it up a little. Put the cap on the bottles but dont tighten it. Leave it loose. Do this about 36 hours before you make your batch. Then do what you did before adding the can with the rest of your malt etc then tip in the coke bottles. You will get a great ferment from that and don't open the lid. Just let it go and take your hydrometer readings after about 6 or 7 days. I think you wont get any issues then. +1 with what @Greeny1525229549 said, don't lose heart keep at it @AJS83. You will amaze yourself with just how good a beer you can brew with a kit and kilo and will look back on this episode as a learning experience. Take our collective words for it, one day you will sit back sipping one of your best and say to yourself, "how bloody good is this". Unfortunately from that point on you will be hooked and dive deeper into this rabbit hole of home / craft brewing. To inspire you I went an cracked one of my Green Neck Lagers a bit early (bottled 4th April 2020) which uses the European Lager kit and was done as per Coopers recipe, its very bloody nice I must say. Now on the re-do brew list. Just wish I had chilled two bottles for tonight. Sorry about the chill haze on the outside of the glass, should have wiped it down before the pic was taken. Also there are those in here that like to take the piss, but hey you are among mates, maybe they are not your own but they are somebodies mates, well hopefully. That may give them a license to do just that, so take it as it comes. Cheers - AL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBooz2 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Forgot to mention, my Green Neck Lager did look a little darker than I was expecting when I took a gravity sample at around about BD+10. However when I went to bottle after a further 7 - 10 days of cold crash at 2 C it had cleared up beautifully. Just an afterthought @AJS83. Cheers - AL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said: Hey mate. Reading your process and recipe you didn't really do anything really wrong. Don't lose heart with it. A couple of pointers though. If you do a euro lager again then do this. Get yourself 2 2 litre coke or water bottles. Clean and sanitise them. Put 360gm of your dry malt in a pot with 3.6 litres of water. Boil it on your stove for 5 minutes and then cool it down to 20 degrees in your sink with cold water. Put it into the 2 coke bottles then add half the yeast packet to each bottle. Swirl it up a little. Put the cap on the bottles but dont tighten it. Leave it loose. Do this about 36 hours before you make your batch. Then do what you did before adding the can with the rest of your malt etc then tip in the coke bottles. You will get a great ferment from that and don't open the lid. Just let it go and take your hydrometer readings after about 6 or 7 days. I think you wont get any issues then. Thanks mate, I will definitely be following your advice. And this time I will not be removing the lid for a sneaky look, I am sure this was my biggest downfall. Edited July 23, 2020 by AJS83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) I wouldn't be worried about lifting the lid - that's hardly an infection worry. I do it to drop in a hop bag and fish it out, give it a squeeze before leaving the wort to settle before bottling, all sanitised hands of course. Never had any infections. I think you just got unlucky and got a bad yeast, or maybe your kit was out of date, which means the yeast will be too. The wort was way too dark for the Euro. I still only brew KK but rarely use the tin yeast, not becasue they're suss, but I find others more reliable and predicable in action. For ales it's Nottingham bought fresh, or harvested from a brew and kept in the fridge and used a few times. For other beers, I'll buy a style specific yeast - wheat, Belgian etc Edited July 23, 2020 by Lab Cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 @AJS83 so what have your gravity readings been? You wrote you had the brew at 8C. This might be too low and the yeast might not have done it's magic yet. Does it taste vinegary? Don't worry too much about smell because different beers have differing odours but if it tastes shite it most likely is shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean's of Ale- Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 @AJS83 Taste it mate, pour half a glass into a wine glass swirl & sip it, if it tastes ok your good mate. As for the color if your Coopers European lager kit is more than 12months old the malt will darken over time, I've used a Breiss Munich malt extract that resembled a dark ale because the extract had age but it still tasted fine. If your hydrometer reads 1.008 or lower bottle it, just taste test first. Good luck matey- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bribie G Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) Where did you get your tin from? Liquid malt extract, which is basically what Coopers tins are, will darken alarmingly after a few months if kept in a hot shop on a shelf. Whilst it's good to support local home brew shops I've had tins that are just about out of date and have been kept in the heat over the summer in non air-conditioned shops and they have been shockers. Again not knocking all LHB shops but you at least want to be buying fresh tins from shops that move lots of stock, such as Big W or direct from Coopers. Edited July 24, 2020 by Bribie G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) On 7/24/2020 at 4:06 PM, Bribie G said: Where did you get your tin from? Liquid malt extract, which is basically what Coopers tins are, will darken alarmingly after a few months if kept in a hot shop on a shelf. Whilst it's good to support local home brew shops I've had tins that are just about out of date and have been kept in the heat over the summer in non air-conditioned shops and they have been shockers. Again not knocking all LHB shops but you at least want to be buying fresh tins from shops that move lots of stock, such as Big W or direct from Coopers. Hey sorry for the late reply. I brought it off the coopers website last year. It was still in date. When cleaning the fermenter out I found a split on the rubber seal surrounding the tap, so maybe that was my problem. Anyway I have ordered myself a replacement tap and another batch of the European Lager as well. In the meantime I have put down a Mr Beers Golden Ale in the smaller fermenter. It seems to be coming along well, and should be ready to bottle next week . Thanks for the advice, I will go for fresh tins next time. Edited July 27, 2020 by AJS83 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 12:16 AM, MUZZY said: @AJS83 so what have your gravity readings been? You wrote you had the brew at 8C. This might be too low and the yeast might not have done it's magic yet. Does it taste vinegary? Don't worry too much about smell because different beers have differing odours but if it tastes shite it most likely is shite. Hey to be honest I never tested the gravity reading as it really smelt off and tasted like vinegar, so I chucked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) On 7/24/2020 at 2:19 PM, Ocean's of Ale- said: @AJS83 Taste it mate, pour half a glass into a wine glass swirl & sip it, if it tastes ok your good mate. As for the color if your Coopers European lager kit is more than 12months old the malt will darken over time, I've used a Breiss Munich malt extract that resembled a dark ale because the extract had age but it still tasted fine. If your hydrometer reads 1.008 or lower bottle it, just taste test first. Good luck matey- Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I chucked it as it tasted really bad. I have just ordered another batch, so will try again next week. I am currently having ago at a craft beer in the smaller fermenter and so far it seems to be going along well. Once I can crack a few good home brews and get some experience I will have a go at adding some dry hopes or other ingredients. But for now, I think it’s best for me to keep it simple, so I get the basic principles of home brewing then I can experiment a bit more. Edited July 27, 2020 by AJS83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean's of Ale- Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) Ditching a batch is heart breaking, I wish you good fortune on the next brew matey- Edited July 27, 2020 by Ocean's of Ale- Being politically correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJS83 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 It was, I hate wasting beer! Thank you, I am positive this Golden Ale will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Jones Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Next time you think you have a bad brew fill a couple of bottles, prime and cap them and leave them as you would a "good brew". You can then do the smell/taste test to confirm if it was bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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