Crown Lager/VB Extract Recipe

[RepSpec]

so...this was just

1.8kg LDM

.6kg white sugar

POR 30g @ 60mins (how much LDM was in your boil?

S23 yeast.

Question for the largering process...

Can you give a run down of how you actually fermented it and temps etc.

Also Re lagering...

I use PET bottles...do they have to stay at cold temps while secondary fermintation is happening and in storage? Because i dont have the room for that, and kegs arent an option.

Most of my ales sit in boxes out of the sun, but not at cold temps.

I would like to try this, however if i need to store it cold, i cant and dont want to "ruin" the beers (further )

[MitchellScott]

2 hours ago, RepSpec said:

so...this was just

1.8kg LDM

.6kg white sugar

POR 30g @ 60mins (how much LDM was in your boil?

S23 yeast.

Question for the largering process...

Can you give a run down of how you actually fermented it and temps etc.

Also Re lagering...

I use PET bottles...do they have to stay at cold temps while secondary fermintation is happening and in storage? Because i dont have the room for that, and kegs arent an option.

Most of my ales sit in boxes out of the sun, but not at cold temps.

I would like to try this, however if i need to store it cold, i cant and dont want to "ruin" the beers (further )

Hi mate.

Yeast was pitched at appox 18C and the fridge brought that down to 12C over a few hours. It was fermented at 12C then when it was a few points away from FG I raised the temp up to 18C for a few days to finish off fermentation and also perform a Diacetyl rest. Then cold crashed at 2C for 1-2 weeks before bottling/kegging.

When bottling most people usually bottle, leave at ambient temps for 2 weeks then store at cold temps to "lager" the beer. The beer will still be fine if you don't lager it, however, they generally are a nicer beer when lagered properly.

My boil was 10L so therefore used approx 1kg of LDM in the boil to being the SG to 1.040.

Cheers, Mitch.

[Otto Von Blotto]

It's easier to get closer to those types of beers with AG. Those couple of XXXX Bitter ones I did were very close to the original. I only did them to see if I could, but I don't think I'd have gotten as close using extract, although with proper yeast management and good temp control it'll still turn out pretty well as you've found. 

I doubt I'll brew another one though, unless the missus brother and his missus move up here for some reason

[RepSpec]

Dry pitch yeast or re-activate it? And how many packets...reading the notes on the yeast, it suggest 1 pack for 10-15ltrs? Im assuming 1 would be sufficent?

I always re-activate us05 when i do my ales.

How long did u leave it before trying it?

Edited December 12, 2019 by RepSpec

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'd probably pitch two. You want it as bland as possible for that style. 

[MitchellScott]

I pitched two packs dry straight in, no re-hydration. If I was using one pack I'd definitely be rehydrating, but would recommend two for the OG in a lager.

[MitchellScott]

Thought I'd share this, a few nights ago cracked open the last bottle that I put away for a 6 month lagering period. 

Was pretty bloody good. Bit drier than a VB as such, probably more along the lines of a Dry beer like Great Northern or Carlton Dry. Super refreshing. 

Cheers, Mitch. 

[Tricky Micky]

Mitch, just for a newbie mate could you possibly type up the process of the 10 Ltr boil, the ingredients used, along with the various steps and directions.

 

 

[amberfiend]

On 9/8/2019 at 7:43 AM, Otto Von Blotto said:

I think it's meant to approximate an old Coopers beer of the same name rather than crown lager (which is really just VB in a fancier bottle)

i almost brought a slab of crown lagers a few weeks back at dans because they were on a members special for about $46 , i remember as a teen being told something along the lines of "crown lager is like the cream skimmed off the top of the brewing vats of fosters lager" lol, i know it sounds absolutely ridiculous to hear now, but as a teen with no clue about brewing it seemed feasable at the time

*if it goes back on special at a similar price i would still be tempted, its been over 15 years since i last tasted a VB , carlton draught, crown etc. would be a new experience to drink it again now its been that long lol

[MitchellScott]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:35 AM, Mickep said:

Mitch, just for a newbie mate could you possibly type up the process of the 10 Ltr boil, the ingredients used, along with the various steps and directions.

 

 

Hi mate. General rule of thumb is to have an approx 1.040 gravity in your wort for boiling. To achieve this you want give or take 100g per liter of DME.

So fill the pot to 10L, add in 1kg of DME, get it to the boil, then add in your 30g of POR and start timer. Once you hit 30mins, take it off the heat and cool it down ASAP (I used a bath with some water in the bottom of it).

That's it :). Not hard at all.

Mitch.

[Tricky Micky]

16 hours ago, MitchellScott said:

Hi mate. General rule of thumb is to have an approx 1.040 gravity in your wort for boiling. To achieve this you want give or take 100g per liter of DME.

So fill the pot to 10L, add in 1kg of DME, get it to the boil, then add in your 30g of POR and start timer. Once you hit 30mins, take it off the heat and cool it down ASAP (I used a bath with some water in the bottom of it).

That's it :). Not hard at all.

Mitch.

Thanks Mitch,

I boiled for 60 minutes before cooling. I may have misread your prior posts in the thread regarding the boil time.  for future reference could I swap out the S23 yeast for an ale yeast like US-05? 

[MitchellScott]

11 hours ago, Mickep said:

Thanks Mitch,

I boiled for 60 minutes before cooling. I may have misread your prior posts in the thread regarding the boil time.  for future reference could I swap out the S23 yeast for an ale yeast like US-05? 

You will probably end up with a pretty bitter beer as you have boiled for the 60mins instead of 30. But if you don't mind that it will be fine.

Sure you can sub in US-05 but keep in mind that is an ale yeast so you wont be producing a lager beer. It will probably be a very bland beer with US-05 too as that is an extremely neutral yeast flavour wise. I would be keeping the S23 or even using W34-70.

Mitch.

[Tricky Micky]

Mitch or anyone else who wants to pitch in. 

I've followed your recipe although a few mistakes along the way ie; 60 minute boil and 22 litre volume instead of your 21.

This was the first brew where I've had complete Temp control. Reached OG and FG targets exactly. 12 degree ferment. Diacetyl rest 3 days @ 18 degrees and cold crash 7 days at 1 degree.

Bottled and bulk primed @ 3.2 V's CO2. Day 12 PET bottles firm with little give. Stored at approx 16 degrees C. Opened one to taste. Wow what a difference the temp control has made.

Even though some here might suggest I was tasting cats piss I was shocked at just how balanced this beer was at least compared to my last Lager which  had no Temp control and no D rest or cold crash.

The beer is very drinkable. I probably have altered the flavours somewhat with the extra volume of a water, but it was okay.  My question is could I add a little crystal malt to this brew and maybe some maltodextrin as the head on the beer was non existent? I mean none zip nada. Like using BE3 and adding the the balance of the rest of the ingredients required

TIA

Edited October 21, 2020 by Mickep

[iBooz2]

@Mickep

In my experience you will have to add a grain steep to get better / retain any head.

I always add a cold steep of say 200 – 300 g of carapils/carafoam grains.  I cold steep these overnight in 3 litres of filtered water and this becomes the basis of my boil liquid.

Try this Recipe:

2 x 1.5 Kg cans Coopers Liquid Light Malt.

250 g Carapils/Carafoam grains (single cracked).

23 Litres batch size.

2 x 11.5 g W-34/70 yeast sachets.

30 g Pride of Ringwood hops.

200 g Dextrose.

ABV keg = 4.5 Bottle = 4.9

EBC = 4.8    IBU = 18.4   BU:GU = 0.41

Method.

Put the milled grains into half of a hop sock (I get them from kegland and cut into halves or quarters depending on required size) tie both ends off and place into 3 litres of cold filtered water in a 20 litre Woolworth's SS pot.  Steep the grains overnight in your fridge and when ready to brew, wring the bag out and keep the liquid in your boiling pot.  Add 5 litres of filtered water to the pot and bring to the boil.  Whilst the pot is coming to the boil, add the first can 1 x 1.5kg can of Coopers liquid light malt and bring the whole lot up to a rolling boil.

Boil for 5 minutes, and then add 25 g of Pride of Ringwood hops which you have previously placed in ¼ of a hop sock (tied at both ends of course).  Boil this for 30 minutes.  In the meantime place another 5 g of Pride of Ringwood hops in another ¼ of a hop sock and once the original 30 minutes is up, toss it in and boil the whole lot including previous hop sock for another 5 minutes and then flame out and cool.

Have an ice bath ready.  I use a big plastic tub that I put two x 1 litre milk bottles full of frozen water laid across the bottom to use as a base for the big pot.  Now in each corner of the big plastic tub I put 1 x 2 litre orange juice bottles standing upright in the corners to fill the void between the tub and the pot and these help hold the pot upright.  The big pot sits in the middle with it lid on and I then poor enough cold water into the tub to conduct the heat out of the pot being careful not to pour any water into the wort.  Just put enough cold water into the tub to cool the wort, too much and the big pot will float/tilt over.

The time it takes to cool the big pot is about 15” for say 3 – 5 litres and 45” for 8 – 10 litres.  This gives you time to organise your FV.  Give the big pot a bit of a swirl around from time to time during cooling to move the warmer wort out to the sides of the pot.

Now in the sanitised FV you will put in a few litres of cold filtered water, and then add say a just boiled kettle of filtered boiling water which is about 1.5 litres or so.  Then put the second can 1 x 1.5 kg of Cooper’s liquid light malt and the 200 g of dextrose into the FV and mix thoroughly.

When the boiled wort has cooled enough, say 27 C or so tip that into your FV and fill up to 23 litres mark with cold filtered water.  You can pre chill a 15 litre cube of water which helps bring the temp down really quickly for yeast pitch.  When Temp is about 18 C pitch both sachets of yeast and fit the lid then put FV into the temp controlled fridge set for 13 C.

Ferment out for 14 days then bump temp up slowly to 18 C for a few days more and then cold crash slowly down to 2 C and leave for 7 days to clear.

Keg or bottle.  If using PET bottles I use 1 x Coopers carb drops and 1 x cube of CSR white sugar.  I leave bottles for about 4 weeks at ambient temps then store very cool for a few months.

Anyway hope that helps and gives you more ideas.

Cheers - AL

 

[MitchellScott]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:12 AM, Mickep said:

Mitch or anyone else who wants to pitch in. 

I've followed your recipe although a few mistakes along the way ie; 60 minute boil and 22 litre volume instead of your 21.

This was the first brew where I've had complete Temp control. Reached OG and FG targets exactly. 12 degree ferment. Diacetyl rest 3 days @ 18 degrees and cold crash 7 days at 1 degree.

Bottled and bulk primed @ 3.2 V's CO2. Day 12 PET bottles firm with little give. Stored at approx 16 degrees C. Opened one to taste. Wow what a difference the temp control has made.

Even though some here might suggest I was tasting cats piss I was shocked at just how balanced this beer was at least compared to my last Lager which  had no Temp control and no D rest or cold crash.

The beer is very drinkable. I probably have altered the flavours somewhat with the extra volume of a water, but it was okay.  My question is could I add a little crystal malt to this brew and maybe some maltodextrin as the head on the beer was non existent? I mean none zip nada. Like using BE3 and adding the the balance of the rest of the ingredients required

TIA

Glad you enjoyed this one mate. It was certainly an easy drinker that is pretty easy to make.

In regards to you head issue, you will probably find that it will improve with time in the bottle, but because you have a decent amount of sugar in the brew and a pretty low FG, its always going to be hard to keep a good head on it.

As AL said, steeping grains can certainly help with this. You can also try more malt and a bit less sugar too. I personally wouldn't be using Maltodextrin in this sort of beer. Crystal malt or Carapils would certainly work though

As you can see in a few posts above, the bottle that was stored and lagered properly had a great 1cm head for the whole beer. I did use a nucleated Headmaster glass with it too though, so that would have definitely helped.

Another thing you could try is using LME instead of DME, that is something I personally didn't test, but when I was doing extract brews and I was making ales, I did find the LME superior to DME. Never tried it in a lager though.

Cheers and happy brewing

Edited October 26, 2020 by MitchellScott

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, MitchellScott said:

Glad you enjoyed this one mate. It was certainly an easy drinker that is pretty easy to make.

In regards to you head issue, you will probably find that it will improve with time in the bottle, but because you have a decent amount of sugar in the brew and a pretty low FG, its always going to be hard to keep a good head on it.

As AL said, steeping grains can certainly help with this. You can also try more malt and a bit less sugar too. I personally wouldn't be using Maltodextrin in this sort of beer. Crystal malt or Carapils would certainly work though

As you can see in a few posts above, the bottle that was stored and lagered properly had a great 1cm head for the whole beer. I did use a nucleated Headmaster glass with it too though, so that would have definitely helped.

Another thing you could try is using LME instead of DME, that is something I personally didn't test, but when I was doing extract brews and I was making ales, I did find the LME superior to DME. Never tried it in a lager though.

Cheers and happy brewing

Cheers Mitch.