Crown Lager/VB Extract Recipe

[Shamus O'Sean]

20 hours ago, PeterC1525230181 said:

I had assumed that the 'Thomas Coopers Golden Crown Lager' extract can was so labelled to strongly hint that it makes something close to Crown Lager without actually saying so. If that is correct, wouldn't that be the easiest route to addressing the original question?

I did a beer I called Royal Pilsner using the TC Golden Crown Lager can as the base.  I pimped it up a fair bit though with a partial mash of 2kg Pilsner Malt and 200g of Carapils, 70 minute boil plus 22g Saaz 10 minute boil and 22g Saaz 15 minute steep.   Brewed with Saflager W-34/70 yeast.  This is a great brew.

Cannot speak for the TC Golden Crown Lager on its own though.

[ben 10]

VB is fermented @ 18° with a lager yeast. 

 

Quote

Victoria Bitter is fermented between 18-18.5°C, which is very warm for lager. Put simply, the higher the temperature, the quicker the fermentation as the yeast multiply and devour the sugars, turning them into alcohol. ... A warm, fast fermentresults in a beer with more flavour.

 

 

[Beerlust]

24 minutes ago, Ben 10 said:

VB is fermented @ 18° with a lager yeast. 

No wonder it tastes like arse! 

[Otto Von Blotto]

More flavour doesn't necessarily mean good flavour

[MitchellScott]

Bloody hell if I fermented a lager at 18C I could just imagine how it would taste 

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

They’d be pressure fermenting wouldn’t they? Less impact from temp?

[MitchellScott]

On 9/9/2019 at 8:31 AM, NewBrews said:

They’d be pressure fermenting wouldn’t they? Less impact from temp?

No idea, but you would think they would be using some form of pressure fermentation, then fermenting at a higher temp to increase production probably.

So I've made some adjustments as recommended from you guys and this is where I am a (below). My Vintage Ale will be kegged tonight so this brew will be the next to go down in the next few days.

I have removed the grains and made the hop boil 60min with only one addition. Should I add any other late addition at all?

Mitch.

[Otto Von Blotto]

If you want it authentic as possible I wouldn't bother with late hopping. The real one certainly doesn't have any.

[Beerlust]

Hi Mitch.

If VB is your go here, you'll need a little crystal malt to darken the beer & offset some of the drying character of dextrose. Currently your beer is the colour of a pilsner. Also I'd shift your dextrose to malt ratio to get the FG down around 1.006-7 mark I'm led to believe VB is. I've not tested the FG of VB as I have no plans to ever brew it & would rather give my hard earned coin to a charity than pay for that beer. 

My own bias aside, if you are interested in finding out the FG of VB, simply buy a can/stubbie, de-gas it, bring it up to approx. 20°C, then take a hydrometer reading.

The Fermentis S-23 & Wyeast 2124 lager yeast strains seem to be the popular choice to ferment this beer.

Best of luck,

Lusty.

[MitchellScott]

2 hours ago, Beerlust said:

Hi Mitch.

If VB is your go here, you'll need a little crystal malt to darken the beer & offset some of the drying character of dextrose. Currently your beer is the colour of a pilsner. Also I'd shift your dextrose to malt ratio to get the FG down around 1.006-7 mark I'm led to believe VB is. I've not tested the FG of VB as I have no plans to ever brew it & would rather give my hard earned coin to a charity than pay for that beer. 

My own bias aside, if you are interested in finding out the FG of VB, simply buy a can/stubbie, de-gas it, bring it up to approx. 20°C, then take a hydrometer reading.

The Fermentis S-23 & Wyeast 2124 lager yeast strains seem to be the popular choice to ferment this beer.

Best of luck,

Lusty.

Thanks very much Lusty, some good tops and help there. Might steal a bit of one of dad's schooners to test it haha. 

Cheers! Will update on how I go once I get the brew going. 

Mitch. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

And fine the crap out of it. You want it crystal clear too. 

[MitchellScott]

6 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

And fine the crap out of it. You want it crystal clear too. 

What type of finings/geltain/whatever else there is do you recommend?

I've never really used it.

Mitch.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'd try biofine clear. Removes yeast and chill haze. 

[MitchellScott]

5 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I'd try biofine clear. Removes yeast and chill haze. 

Will probably just have to use what my LHBS has now I think about it. I know they keep some finings and I think gelatin. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by MitchellScott

[Otto Von Blotto]

If it is you might as well just get it from the supermarket. It's likely cheaper there. I'd use it in the fermenter during the cold crash, at least then it can be left behind when it's kegged or bottled. 

[MitchellScott]

On 9/11/2019 at 6:59 PM, Beerlust said:

FG down around 1.006-7 mark I'm led to believe VB is.

You are pretty on the money Lusty!

Stole a sample of his Crown Lager last night and let is de-gass overnight and come to room temp. Tested this morning and it read basically spot on 1.006. There was still a little gas in the sample so might drop to 1.005 after its fully de-gassed but gives me a good number to aim for.

Cheers!!

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

My megaswill clones get to a similar FG. Only thing id contradict lusty on is to not use dextrose. Use white sugar instead to get the authentic megaswill taste.

[Beerlust]

8 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

My megaswill clones get to a similar FG. Only thing id contradict lusty on is to not use dextrose. Use white sugar instead to get the authentic megaswill taste.

I'm with ya on that Greeny provided Mitch uses a lager strain to ferment it.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[MitchellScott]

24 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

I'm with ya on that Greeny provided Mitch uses a lager strain to ferment it.

Cheers,

Lusty.

Yep certainly will be. 

Probably either S-23 or W34-70.

 

Cheers.

[Beerlust]

10 hours ago, MitchellScott said:

You are pretty on the money Lusty!

Stole a sample of his Crown Lager last night and let is de-gass overnight and come to room temp. Tested this morning and it read basically spot on 1.006. There was still a little gas in the sample so might drop to 1.005 after its fully de-gassed but gives me a good number to aim for.

Cheers!!

It sounded like you doubted me Mitch? LOL

I would never intentionally steer you wrong mate. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm interested in how it turns out.

Best of luck with the brew & give us your opinion on the end result.

Lusty.

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

The conversation around this beer got me thinking a bit. Not because I would like to brew a beer like this necessarily, but how I would be able to attain a low FG from an extract base without some of the cidery aftertastes often associated with the use of sugar or dextrose in conjunction with malt extracts, particularly liquid malt extracts that seem to have a lower fermentability than dry forms.

My thoughts got to thinking about invert sugar. Many British beers with a low final gravity use invert sugar to increase fermentability in place of using a crystal malted grain source that is less fermentable & would otherwise add body to the final beer whereas invert sugar derived from cane sugar (usually) will ferment out much further but retain similar residual caramelised flavours.

@Coopers DIY Beer Team @Coopers  As a mere point of difference from your direct competitors & a way to better hone DIY recipes closer to style, have you ever thought of releasing a range of invert based sugar "Enhancers" that would work well with your kit tins? 

I would personally be interested in such a range on a tier 2 or 3 level, & from a manufacturing aspect given the source, I wouldn't think they would be very expensive to manufacture.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[MitchellScott]

So have re-done this in IanH spreadsheet.

Looks like to get 20L of brew and maintain an approx 1.006FG, I'll need 1.5kg LME and 1kg white sugar (giving 4.9% kegged ABV). Now this is obviously going to be too light in color (approx 2.8EBC) so will need to steep some grains to get a bit of color I guess. What grains would work for this sort of brew? I usually use Crystal but obviously we don't want the sweetness of crystal in this sort of beer.



Recommendations?

Edited September 15, 2019 by MitchellScott

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

2 hours ago, MitchellScott said:

So have re-done this in IanH spreadsheet.

Looks like to get 20L of brew and maintain an approx 1.006FG, I'll need 1.5kg LME and 1kg white sugar (giving 4.9% kegged ABV). Now this is obviously going to be too light in color (approx 2.8EBC) so will need to steep some grains to get a bit of color I guess. What grains would work for this sort of brew? I usually use Crystal but obviously we don't want the sweetness of crystal in this sort of beer.



Recommendations?

I wouldn't go 1kg sugar mate. 300 or 400gm should be about right. As far as a steep. About 30gm of roasted barley. Top up the rest of the brew with malt to get to your ABV. 

[MitchellScott]

8 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

I wouldn't go 1kg sugar mate. 300 or 400gm should be about right. As far as a steep. About 30gm of roasted barley. Top up the rest of the brew with malt to get to your ABV. 

Adding anymore malt will increase the expected FG of the beer though. After testing the commercials they sit right around 1.006. 

I'll have to see if my LHBS has roasted barley. They do little 200g packs of speacialty grains but I've emonky ever got crystal. 

Mitch. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Maybe try using dry malt instead of liquid. It tends to be a bit more fermentable for some reason.