Yeast Starters

[Swill Bill]

Well that went to plan not! Made my starter and harvested about 800ml and put it in the fridge 2 days ago. Went to brew today only to find my flask bloody frozen. Fridge is damn good. The mason jar is thicker walled and it was still fine so used that to make a bigger starter and harvest some yeast.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Jeez, what temperature is the fridge sitting at?

[Swill Bill]

My bad there as I thought I was moving it away from cooler to normal but got that aroung the wrong way. Shes a beauty though a 1950's Kelvinator that works a little to good. oh and i got it for free a few years ago with seals perfect.

[Otto Von Blotto]

My bad there as I thought I was moving it away from cooler to normal but got that aroung the wrong way. Shes a beauty though a 1950's Kelvinator that works a little to good. oh and i got it for free a few years ago with seals perfect.

I made that mistake with my fermenting fridge too although at the other end of the scale. It's a similar vintage Frigidaire and I turned it down to zero thinking it was coldest then wondered why it wouldn't drop below about 5C. Dad explained how it worked' date=' so I turned it up to 7 and it went down to 0C easily. I run it through a temp controller so it doesn't freeze anything. The one time I cold crashed a 25 litre batch in it without a temp controller it turned it into a beer slushie.

 

It only dawned on me later that they weren't using Celcius in Australia back in those days so any wonder it didn't add up.. [img']lol[/img]

 

Keep an eye on the seals though, I had to replace mine a few months ago after they just got too hard and the door wouldn't close properly. Otherwise though, the things are built to last - that's the only repairs the thing has ever needed in its lifetime so far.

[ChristinaS1]

And for those of you who don't yet have flasks and a stir plate, there is also the low tech Shaken not Stirred method:

 

https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/16000/

 

Although it was designed with liquid yeasts in mind, I tired it with 7gm of 19 month old yeast from the Irish Stout kit, which I assume is S-04; it is in the FV now. I made the starter the night before brew day and pitched it at the 12 hour mark, at which point there was some krausen on the starter, but it wasn't quite at high krausen. That does not seem to have made much of a difference though as it took off like a rocket. Beer was at high krausen at the 8 hour point and krausen dropped on day 3.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[James Lao]

Just had my first attempt at rehydrating yeast then making a starter.

Was apprehensive at first, but thought I have been making good beer for 12 months now so I thought I would have a crack at it.

Same cleaning and sanitisation principles I use for making my normal beer.

Seems to be going well so far, 12 hours to get a 40mm krausen ( dry pitch is usually 24 hours)

Made 2 starters for 2 FVs

Got 2 x 4 litre spring water bottles and made up 2 x 3 litre starters.

Made the starters about 24 hours before brewing, gentle swirling of the bottles every hour or 2.

Pitched 2 litres of starter into the wort, and saved 1 litre in a preserving jar bought from Coles for about $3.

Would like to get a Stir plate set up eventually but the low tech version seems to be doing the job.

Can't wait to taste the finished product.

Thanks to all on the forum giving top advice !

 

Cheers

 

James

 

 

[joolbag]

Mr Lao I am going to do the same as you - I am keen to start using starters, for the sole purpose of pitching the right amount of yeast for my brews. I will start with dry yeast, which by most accounts 1pkt is an underpitch and will build it up in a starter for my higher gravity brews to see if it makes a difference to the end product.

 

Keen to hear how you go as you are a brew ahead of me!

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Jools

[Swill Bill]

I just pitched my first starter yesterday arvo and this morning when I checked before going to work it was bubbling away like mad. I have only used dry yeast in the past and I must say this is the most action I ever have seen.

[Waylon]

Ive just made used a starter using WLP810 again...steam lager yeast

 

I stepped the starter up twice using the 5 litre flask, poured yeast into jars and then pitched into my fermenters, the last 500ml I split into to separate 250mls of yeast ive began another 5 litre starter with one and the other is in the fridge.

 

Happy days

[Away]

My first yeast starter was pitched last night at 8:30 pm. The starter had gone past peak krausen by half a day but it didn't matter, the brew is cracking along less than 12 hours later! Previously, when pitching dry US-05 from the sachet, I had experienced lags of up to 36 hours.

 

My US-05 was harvested from a previous brew. I only have two litre Mason jar to make my starter in, so I needed all of the yeast for a 46 litre batch that I made last night.

 

Next time I will have a 3 litre flask and will be able to hold back some of the starter for the following batch, as Kelsey does.

 

I also had a newbie in with me for last night's session and he's hooked on home brewing already...

 

Cheers

[Otto Von Blotto]

I have had quick lag times with the crash and decant method as well, by pitching the yeast cold straight from the fridge rather than letting it warm up for hours first. This method probably suits harvesting a portion of it more than the pitching at high krausen method does, although it can still be done.

[Waylon]

My 250mls of saved yeast added to the 5 litres worth of wort in a 5 L flask is now vary active on the stir plate!

 

The two fermenters are also vary active fermenting @15 degrees ATM

[James Lao]

Day 5 and took a gravity sample and it was 1.010 , from about 1.054 ish.

Nottingham ale yeast usually chews through it.

Last time I used Notty on a similar gravity ale it got to 1.007 - in 12 days I think from memory.

So it looks on track do doing the same thing but in record time ( for me anyway), with the help of the starter.

Will bump the temp up to 20 degC and dry hop .

Happy days !

 

 

[Waylon]

After 3 days my 5 Litre flask of WLP810 yeast had climax of high krusan last night with no visible signs of yeast dropping in suspension!

But this morning day 4 , noticed krusan had dropped dramatically and have a yeast cake bed developing...so cold crash the flask in fridge to go dormant until next fermenter is ready!

[James Lao]

Bottled 2 days ago and the brew finished at about 1.007, which is lower than when I just dry pitched, previously.

Taste at bottling time seemed good, ( nice and hoppy - dry hopped with mosaic and Galaxy).

It seemed there was , more 'yeast' or trub in the fermentor, sticking to the sides etc.?

Normally with Nottingham I can see the top third of the fermenter (at least), clear towards the end of the ferment, but this time the clearing seemed a bit less?

Now after 2 days in the bottle there seems to be flaky bits floating at the top of the bottles.?

This was the first time I rehydrated and made a yeast starter, but also I used the stainless hop tea balls for my dry hop, for the first time.

Was wondering if the flaky bits in suspension are bits of hops the escaped from the hop balls, or is just yeast?

If it is hop matter will it drop out during bottle conditioning?

Don't recall ever seeing flaky bits in the bottle on any of my other brews..

Any experience or advice appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

James

[Otto Von Blotto]

Could be hops yeah, or maybe yeast but probably more likely hops. They will settle out into the sediment when the beer is chilled in the fridge. I can't say I've noticed more krausen sticking to the sides purely because of making starters though. That is more to do with the wort make up and yeast strain. I've noticed yeast go mental in the starter and then show hardly any krausen in the main batch too.

 

Speaking of starters, I just pitched some 1469 into a 2L starter to get it ready for pitching into another batch of my red ale. It was boiled last night about an hour before I went to bed and left on the stove to cool down by itself like a no-chill cube as I usually do with starters. Hopefully this time it doesn't fire up to the point of escaping the bloody flask though! I think I'll continue with the boiling them at night and leaving them to cool overnight over the warmer months, they should cool down quicker than they do during the daytime.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Guess that 1469 was still in good numbers after being in the fridge for nearly 2 and a half months. Pitched it about 6 this morning and when I got home for my break about midday it had a healthy inch or so of krausen on top of it. Pretty happy with that!

[Burton Snatch]

Noticed a bit of discussion on various threads regarding experimentation with yeast starters a higher temps.

As a novice to this, can someone tell me, is the higher temp the water temp the yeast is placed in to develop the starter pre-pitching, or the F.V's initial temp before cooling to an optimum fermenting temp.

One brewing book I've been reading is John Palmer's 'How to Brew', and while I'm sure there's much debate still ongoing as to it's information, one part that shocked me was his recommendation for starter temps between 35 and 40 degrees C !?

IT got me very interested, especially after recent posts on here.

[Beerlust]

Hi Burton Snatch.

 

Put simply, yeast propagate much better at higher temperatures than they do at lower beer fermenting type temperatures. During higher temperatures the propagating yeast are throwing a lot of esters & unwanted flavours & aromas, but assists growth. Fermenting yeast at lower temperatures controls & minimizes these by-products to more beer friendly & controllable levels.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Burton Snatch]

Ok, so get them up and running, then tame them with temperature for the job at hand!

 

I always thought that anything over 23 degrees would kill them off!?

A combination of mythinformation from relatives with little brewing experience, and can yeast info maybe.

[Mark D Pirate]

Ok' date=' so get them up and running, then tame them with temperature for the job at hand!

 

I always thought that anything over 23 degrees would kill them off!?

A combination of mythinformation from relatives with little brewing experience, and can yeast info maybe.[/quote']

 

Depends on strain !

lager yeast would be very uncomfortable

Ales maybe getting that way

Saisons are still wearing a beanie

simply put they are all slightly different in what they bring to a beer , even different ale strains bring different properties to the party

[Otto Von Blotto]

Those higher temps are for re-hydration in water, not making yeast starters. From recent reading it would appear that the yeast are perfectly happy being re-hydrated in temps around 35-40 regardless of being ale or lager yeast.

 

Once re-hydrated if using this higher temperature, it's probably advisable to acclimatise them to the cooler wort slowly by adding small amounts of it to the yeast in its re-hydration container to bring it down before pitching it into either a starter wort or the full batch.

 

With actual yeast starters, I don't know what anyone else does, but I always make mine at ambient temps over the warmer months, and around 22-24C in the cooler months with my heated stir plate. The idea of them is to propagate the yeast to adequate levels for pitching so the temp is less critical in terms of flavour contribution.

 

Once they ferment out I put them in the fridge for a couple of days after stealing some for later use, then on pitching day I take it out of the fridge, decant off the "beer" (leaving a small amount to swirl up the yeast) and pitch it into the batch straight away while it's still cold. I use the same technique when pitching my harvested yeast into starters.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Swill Bill]

 

With actual yeast starters' date=' I don't know what anyone else does, but I always make mine at ambient temps over the warmer months, and around 22-24C in the cooler months with my heated stir plate. The idea of them is to propagate the yeast to adequate levels for pitching so the temp is less critical in terms of flavour contribution.

 

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey[/quote']

 

Even lager yeast?

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yep, they're perfectly happy fermenting up there. The problem with doing this in an actual batch is the crappy flavours that would likely be produced from it. With pretty well all the "beer" being decanted off the yeast cake before it's pitched into the main batch it doesn't really matter. 100-200mL or so in 25 litres of beer ain't gonna be noticed

[Otto Von Blotto]

Bloody thing escaped the flask again! Not as violently as last time though.

 

Maybe I'll have to start using the 5 litre flask for this damn yeast