Mid-Strength Nirvana

[Chuznut]

Hi guys.

 

My first attempt at reproducing a beer close to the mid-strength Throwback IPA made by Pirate Life Brewing' date=' exceeded even my own expectations. I was genuinely surprised at how good it turned out.

 

Time to brew it again with a couple of small adjustments based on my observations identified from the first brew.

 

Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale kit 1.7kg

Light Dry Malt Extract 500gms

CaraHell grain 200gms

CaraBohemian 200gms

½ tsp yeast nutrient @ 15mins

Cascade 25gms, Ahtanum 25gms, & Centennial 20gms 3½ litre hop tea steeped @ 75-80°C for 30mins

Centennial & Ahtanum 25gms each dry hopped

Nelson Sauvin & Motueka 15gms each dry hopped

US-05 yeast from 1 litre starter

Brewed to 23 litres

Ferment @ 18°C

OG = approx. 1.036

FG = approx. 1.009

EBC = 15.3

IBU = 36.2

Kegged ABV = 3.5%

 

I'm really looking forward to this one once it's ready for drinking.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/quote']

 

Hey Lusty,

 

Just wondering if you've got this one kegged yet? I'm keen to try making a Throw Back clone myself sometime soon, so just curious how this one turned out.

[Beerlust]

Hi Chuznut.

Hey Lusty' date='

 

Just wondering if you've got this one kegged yet? I'm keen to try making a Throw Back clone myself sometime soon, so just curious how this one turned out. [/quote']

Unfortunately I had an aceto-bacteria related problem with this most recent attempt. I recently spoke of how that happened over in the mistakes thread. My post on that can be found HERE.

 

In the end I was just glad I caught it before I threw the dry hops in.

 

I've been pretty crook all week (still am ) & haven't even looked at a beer lately. I loved the initial recipe beer so much, it was always going to be brewed again. If I'm feeling better come Sunday, I'll likely mix up another batch, making sure to pitch the yeast a lot sooner.

 

What's great about the Sparkling Ale kit for this brew is it's near perfectly bittered for an IPA-likeness at this 3.5%ABV level. What that means is you can use ALL of your lovely aromatic hops to post boil flavour the beer & dry hop for a very aromatic beer on the nose. I'd also speculate that the Sparkling Ale kit has a greater percentage of ale malt to wheat malt compared to the Pale Ale kit that I prefer here.

 

If you do decide to use the Sparkling Ale kit for a beer like this at this ABV level, I certainly would not be adding any hops into a boil or exposing them to boiling temperature in conjunction with it. The beer will simply end up too bitter IMHO.

 

If you would prefer to boil some hops, then the Pale Ale kit is a better option, & the methods outlined in the Coopers DIY: Beer O'Clock Session IPA would be a better way to go about it.

 

I admit if I hadn't come across that Pirate Life Throwback IPA, I doubt I would have ever entertained brewing a beer like this.

 

Good luck when you get around to brewing one. It's a ripping little beer style that has me feeling almost guilt free should I sit down for an afternoon session of it!

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Chuznut]

I know that this is a very simplistic view, but I was wondering whether the Nelson's Light recipe could potentially be a good recipe to base an extract clone of the Throwback IPA on?

 

I've never made the NL before, but Lusty, I see that you've done a few of the NL's before, so you'd have a better idea on whether this might get close?

 

Basing it on the ingredients listed on Pirate Life's website, I was thinking something along the lines of -

 

23L

1.5kg Light DME

500g Wheat DME

300g Light Crystal + 200g Carapils (30 min steep) (I've never steeped Carapils before, but from what I've read, it mostly just helps with head retention?)

25g Simcoe @ 30mins

20g NZ Cascade @ 0mins (30min steep)

25g Crystal dry hopped (I can't figure out why someone would've named a hop variety 'crystal'?)

US-05 Yeast

 

Going off of that IanH's spreadsheet, that'd give me -

OG - 1.036

FG - 1.009

ABV - 3.6% (kegged) Unfortunately I don't have kegs, so it'd be 4.0% for me in the bottle, but I can live with it being a bit higher than the original, for fear of losing too much flavour if I were to raise the volume to around 25L

IBU - 27.4 (Given that there is a 30min steep, and IanH's spreadsheet doesn't take this into account, I'd imagine that this figure would go up in real life closer to the 35 IBU target)

EBC - 10.7 (Not sure what the EBC of the Throwback is, but to me it looks quite light)

 

I'd probably raise the amount of hops a little bit to give it that extra aroma and perhaps bitterness that the original has, but apart from that, can anyone see any reason why this one wouldn't get close to the Throwback IPA? Or any tweaks that you think might help?

 

Cheers

 

Blake

[Otto Von Blotto]

Can't help with the actual recipe as I haven't brewed Lusty's one or researched the actual beer but a couple of things... Carapils is basically just a really really light crystal malt, and yeah it basically adds body and helps in head retention like any crystal, but without really changing the flavour like other crystal malts do.

 

Yes, you'll get a bit of extra bitterness from the 30 minute hop steep, how much is anyone's guess though. It won't be a massive increase though, probably a few IBUs.

 

10.7 EBC isn't all that dark, this pilsner of mine came out around 9-10 EBC if it helps 'imagine' the colour, and the other photo is a pale ale around 16-17 EBC

 

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Chuznut]

Thanks Otto.

 

Off the top of my head, the colour of the Throwback would be closer to your pilsner than to your pale ale, though it's probably somewhere in between the 2.

[Beerlust]

Hi Chuznut.

I know that this is a very simplistic view' date=' but I was wondering whether the Nelson's Light recipe could potentially be a good recipe to base an extract clone of the Throwback IPA on?

It's a good view IMHO.

 

Initially I thought about doing an extract/partial attempt of this Pirate Life beer, but quickly realized I could get really good bang for my buck by using the Sparkling Ale kit as the base & saving a lot of time on brew day. Not to mention being able to use all of my lovely aromatic hops for steeping & dry hopping.

 

I've never made the NL before' date=' but Lusty, I see that you've done a few of the NL's before, so you'd have a better idea on whether this might get close?[/quote']

I bottled an almost all-grain version of this recipe for my father last week. PB2's Nelson's Light recipe is the BEST light beer I've ever tasted, period. My Dad loves it, I reckon it's great, & the handful of friends I've poured one for said they couldn't believe it was a light beer & really enjoyed it. I learned a lot from my first brewing of this recipe.

 

I ran your recipe through IanH's spreadsheet & ended up with some slightly elevated numbers than those you notated.

 

It's not uncommon for hop numbers to be a little different from brewer to brewer due to alpha levels of the hops being purchased, but for the rest of the malt based ingredients at 23 litres brewed I get...

 

OG = 1.039

FG = 1.008

EBC = 13.1

Kegged ABV = 4.0%

Bottled ABV = 4.4%

 

Your recipe has more dry weight vs my LME based recipe, plus you have increased grain levels for the steep. To me, this would account for the different numbers. Check your EBC numbers for your Light Crystal & CaraPils in IanH's spreadsheet. Light crystal generally runs at approx. 100 EBC, & CaraPils at around 5-6 EBC. I'd be surprised if 300gms of Light Crystal kept you under 10 EBC here.

 

The pictures the Otto man was kind enough to post are a good indicator of those respective EBC's. The Pirate Life Throwback IPA is definitely in the lighter spectrum around Kelsey's pilsner colour. In my own recipe, I've deliberately gone away from that lighter colour & am hoping to add a bit of noticeable caramelisation into the flavour of the beer. A bit of added sweetness can curb the feeling of harsh bittering tones & boost the malt character of a beer at the same time. Something I feel could work well in this lower ABV beer.

 

Apart from that, your recipe looks good, & if you want that noticeable flavour/aroma like the Pirate Life beer presents, definitely ramp up the dry hopping & flameout hop additions. The commercial beer is not cheap to buy & coincidentally neither are hops. I'd suggest there is a link between the two here.

 

I'll be kegging my re-brew of my latest version of this on Saturday.

 

Good luck with the brew.

 

Lusty.

[Chuznut]

Thanks Lusty,

 

 

Initially I thought about doing an extract/partial attempt of this Pirate Life beer' date=' but quickly realized I could get really good bang for my buck by using the Sparkling Ale kit as the base & saving a lot of time on brew day. Not to mention being able to use all of my lovely aromatic hops for steeping & dry hopping. [img']happy[/img]

 

 

I'd like to be able to make this clone using a kit as the base, but I try and stay away from them nowadays, as I find I still occasionally get that 'homebrew twang' taste when I use them. I dont get it every time (probably about 1 out of 3 brews), but I can't figure out why sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't, so I usually just avoid them and stick with extract brewing when I can, as I never get that twang with my extract brews.

 

I'll have to try the spreadsheet again in the morning. Not sure why my figures came out so different to yours.

[Gigantor]

Was going to give this recipe a go (the extract version), which came from the Spring 2015 edition of Beer & Brewer. A nice Session IPA.

 

Cheers,

Pete

 

 

[porschemad911]

Looks like I might get the chance to try the Pirate Brewing Throwback IPA, they're here for Canberra Beer Week!

[Beerlust]

Was going to give this recipe a go (the extract version)' date=' which came from the Spring 2015 edition of Beer & Brewer. A nice Session IPA.[/quote']

The recipe looks good Pete. A little higher in ABV than what I'm brewing, but certainly a good whack & mix of some lovely hops in that recipe all the same.

 

If you do get around to brewing it, I'll look forward to your tasting notes on it down the track.

 

Looks like I might get the chance to try the Pirate Brewing Throwback IPA' date=' they're here for Canberra Beer Week![/quote']

If you do get along to the show, definitely give their beers a go John!

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

I kegged the brew I listed in post#48 & have now poured a couple from it. For what I set out to accomplish in creating a beer that reproduces something reminiscent of the Pirate Life Throwback IPA, I admit I am totally stoked with the outcome the current beer recipe has produced.

 

For a 3.5% ABV beer it has some wonderful levels of complexity & is just a joy to drink as a session beer. Deceiving aroma on the nose, that leads into a lovely mix of citrus hop & malt flavour, with a great late lingering bitterness on the tongue that tells you it's an IPA you're drinking, not an APA & challenges all of your senses along the way.

 

I also love the fact this beer is kit based & made using the Coopers Sparkling Ale kit.

 

Sorry, I can't hide my joy. To me it's one of those beers you always hope you'll create, & I have here.

 

Just stoked!

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Chuznut]

Was going to give this recipe a go (the extract version)' date=' which came from the Spring 2015 edition of Beer & Brewer. A nice Session IPA.

 

Cheers,

Pete

 

[/quote']

 

The recipe looks good. I'm assuming that the pale malt extract is meant to be DME rather than LME?

 

Does anyone know exactly what the Calcium Sulphate, Calcium Chloride, Sodium Chloride and Magnesium Sulphate are supposed to do? I've never seen a recipe requiring any of those things before.

[Beerlust]

Hi Chuznut.

Does anyone know exactly what the Calcium Sulphate' date=' Calcium Chloride, Sodium Chloride and Magnesium Sulphate are supposed to do? I've never seen a recipe requiring any of those things before. [/quote']

They are used to create a specific mineral profile in your water. Used in certain quantities & combinations it is said they can influence final beer flavours.

 

You'll notice quite a number of the all grain brewers on the forum posting various combinations of these chemicals in their listed recipes to reproduce the water profile used in certain styles of beer.

 

Water profiling is something I have some interest in, but at my current level of brewing, it's not really worth worrying about.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Chuznut]

Hi Chuznut.

Does anyone know exactly what the Calcium Sulphate' date=' Calcium Chloride, Sodium Chloride and Magnesium Sulphate are supposed to do? I've never seen a recipe requiring any of those things before. [/quote']

They are used to create a specific mineral profile in your water. Used in certain quantities & combinations it is said they can influence final beer flavours.

 

You'll notice quite a number of the all grain brewers on the forum posting various combinations of these chemicals in their listed recipes to reproduce the water profile used in certain styles of beer.

 

Water profiling is something I have some interest in, but at my current level of brewing, it's not really worth worrying about.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

 

Makes sense, although I assumed that if you wanted to do water profiling, you had to do tests on the water in your specific area first before you knew what chemicals to add to it? As opposed to this recipe which just tells you to add those chemicals regardless of what your water is like?

[BeerEngineer]

Hi all! Just put down a citra/amarilla extract IPA and am planning on using some leftovers to make a session IPA at around 3.5-4%. Here’s what I’ve got so far, would be interested in hearing some feedback:

 

For 11 L:

1kg LDME

150g Medium Crystal

10g Citra @ 30 min (23.28 IBU)

10g Amarillo @ 10 min (7.03 IBU)

10g Citra @ 10 min (10.92 IBU)

15g Amarillo @ Flameout

15g Citra @ Flameout

15g Cascade Dry Hop

15g Citra Dry Hop

US-05 yeast

 

OG=1.036

FG=1.009

ABV=3.8% (Bottled)

IBU=41.2

EBC=14.6

 

I guess my questions are:

• Is a 30 minute boil ok, or is there another reason 60 minute boils are usually done?

• For a lower abv IPA, is this too much hops to be using and will it be super overpowering? I’m a big fan of hoppy beers and really enjoy the Pirate Life Session IPA if that helps.

 

Thanks all!

BeerEngineer

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I think for extract beers, 30 minutes is fine for a boil length. There are reasons for 60+ minute boils in all grain brewing but I won't go into them here.

 

I'll wait for someone else to advise on the hops. I don't have much experience brewing IPAs and certainly not any mid strength ones, although on the surface it appears to be pretty well balanced so I don't think it would be super overpowering.

[Beerlust]

Hi BeerEngineer.

 

The recipe looks great except for the hop you are primarily using to bitter the beer @ the 30 minute boil point. Citra has a low co-humulone level that makes it very smooth in regard to how bitterness presents from it when long boiled over 60-90mins. When you shorten the boil time of any hop, the bitterness extracted from it is generally less harsh anyway, so doing this with a hop that is already very smooth can create a beer that lacks a suitable level of bitterness.

 

In situations like this, don't always rely on the IBU numbers to tell the story. Given you wish to create an IPA-like feel in the beer I would look to change that hop addition.

 

The following Blog article explains it very well (IMHO).

 

Hops...More Than Just Simply Alpha Acids

 

I hope that helps, & good luck with the brew,

 

Lusty.

[BeerEngineer]

Thanks for the replies guys, really appreciate it!

 

I'll substitute the 30 min Citra addition for either Magnum or Cascade :) I've previously bittered with Amarillo before and certainly did notice that it was smoother than the predicted IBU's would have suggested, so will keep this in mind from now on! :D

 

Thanks again lads!

[Otto Von Blotto]

Magnum will have the same effect, it's a very smooth bittering hop as well.

 

I quite like using it in APAs, as I enjoy that aspect in them. But it might not suit an IPA. Actually the last IPA I brewed I didn't even use a traditional bittering addition, I simply threw in some Mosaic as a first wort hop and then the rest was Centennial and Mosaic as late additions.

[Hairy]

Both Citra and Magnum are fine. Citra will be nice as a bittering hop in a 30 minute boil.

[Beerlust]

Hi Hairy.

Both Citra and Magnum are fine. Citra will be nice as a bittering hop in a 30 minute boil.

Have you ever bittered a beer using Citra @ 30mins as the main bittering addition? Given it's an IPA we're talking about producing here' date=' I don't think that suggested hop configuration would cut it here. [img']innocent[/img]

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hi Beer Engineer,

 

I'd just do a one hour boil and be done with it. A 60mins boil is the traditional bittering addition and it works very well to get the bitterness into a brew without adding flavour or aroma. It is a predictable way to a get result you are looking for and it uses far less hops in the boil. This is not only cheaper, but also there is a lot less vegetable matter in the boil deal with when it comes time to getting the wort into the FV

 

Both Citra and Magnum are good bittering hops. I've use both with success.

 

I'm not sure I like the style you attempting. I just don't think it works. I think you need A higher gravity to balance out the bitterness. You just can't make an OG of 1.038 work with and IBU of 40. At least not a simple Pale extract brew. It'll be unbalanced toward the hops. It'll be a thin and bitter pale ale .

 

just my 2 cents

 

[Hairy]

Just my 2 cents.

 

Cheers' date='

 

Lusty.[/size']

It is you that places that value on your advice, not I

 

I wasn't itching for a fight, just letting him know that the hop choices are fine.

 

I have bittered beers with both Citra and Magnum. I have added citra as an equivalent 30 minute addition, but in addition to a 60 minute Magnum addition. They were good.

 

My last IPA was bittered with Magnum at 60 minutes and various other hops late. It was as bitter as a South Sydney supporter yesterday and took a while to calm down. Not everyone likes a harshly bittered IPA and it appears that only substandard beer judges expect it.

 

I find most session IPAs to be pale ales bittered at the top end of the scale. When done right they are pretty good. When done poorly they taste like bitter, hoppy water.

 

I have a six pack of Little Bling IPA this weekend and I really like this. But I still think it is really a pale ale.

 

I am yet to try the Pirate Life one.

[Beerlust]

I wasn't itching for a fight' date=' just letting him know that the hop choices are fine.[/quote']

Me either, I was just genuinely interested in whether you had used this hop @ 30mins as your primary bittering hop for an IPA, & if you had, what you thought.

I have bittered beers with both Citra and Magnum. I have added citra as an equivalent 30 minute addition' date=' but in addition to a 60 minute Magnum addition. They were good.[/quote']

My question answered.

My last IPA was bittered with Magnum at 60 minutes and various other hops late. It was as bitter as a South Sydney supporter yesterday and took a while to calm down. Not everyone likes a harshly bittered IPA and it appears that only substandard beer judges expect it.

I don't like harshly bittered beers period. The harshness can be avoided through better hop selection @ the bittering end. IPA's though have to have a noticeable bitterness (IMHO) or else it's just a Pale Ale to me.

I find most session IPAs to be pale ales bittered at the top end of the scale. When done right they are pretty good. When done poorly they taste like bitter' date=' hoppy water.[/quote']

+1

 

I've had a few (mainly British styled) IPA's that are just overly bitter & don't have the malt background to hold it. Very imbalanced & lack any notable flavour. Not enjoyable at all.

I have a six pack of Little Bling IPA this weekend and I really like this. But I still think it is really a pale ale.

There's an increasing amount of these claimed craft IPA's out there in the marketplace' date=' that are not true IPA's at all in my eyes.

 

The distinction of what a Pale Ale is & what an IPA is, is becoming increasingly blurred, & I admit I don't like worrying about that if I pick up a 6 pack of an IPA (I haven't tried) off the shelf, & whether it will be truly representative of the style.

 

In conversations I've had with Chad on the forum over the years regarding IPA's & how they should present, we appear to be on a similar page, particularly in how to approach bittering them.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/size']

[Hairy]

There can be a fine line between bitterness with bite and harsh bitterness. It is easy to cross that line, especially when trying recipes and hops for the first time.