Beerlust Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hi Brownsworthy. Just got home from doing the tour at Murray's and I must say it was a lovely day! Tried to put the screws on one of the brewers he told me that there was some Munich malt in it (well spotted Hairy) when I asked about the hops he wasn't so forth coming he said they were American I asked if it was a blend like Zythos or FF he said no and that it was a blend of 4 types and that if you know American hops you should be able to pick them out (I'm obviously not very good at it! ). That would have been a cool day! The fact that the brew apparently has Munich Malt in it' date=' has me taking the rest of their descriptors of the beer with a pinch of salt also as this was conveniently left out of their grist on the website. [img']whistling[/img] I actually phoned Murray's SA rep yesterday simply to find out where I could purchase some from here in SA. He was only able to provide two addresses that he knew they supply to. Neither have it! Don't be at all disheartened in anyway with the path a few of us have led you on. Of course the brewer is going to say it's not one of the two proprietary hop blends. That was always highly unlikely. It was always likely going to be a blend of their own with particular attention at various stages in the boil & dry hopping with specific varieties. The proprietary blends will get you in same ballpark without the headaches associated with trying to guess their hop schedule. I'd like to try the beer first before suggesting hops & schedules etc. but would almost lay money, Simcoe or Columbus provide the piney character, Citra is in the mix, as is Cascade, along with Centennial, & perhaps Amarillo ahead of potentially a few others. Once you've tasted the two brews you now have planned, you'll have a better idea of what needs adjusting to produce something even closer. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Once you've tasted the two brews you now have planned' date=' you'll have a better idea of what needs adjusting to produce something even closer. [img']wink[/img] OR made something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Once you've tasted the two brews you now have planned' date=' you'll have a better idea of what needs adjusting to produce something even closer. [img']wink[/img] OR made something better. +1 Good call Ben. Very true. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 G'day guys I also forgot to mention that said there was no wheat in it!? So yeah Lusty I'm not putting much faith in their description as well I asked about their yeast and if it was an American ale yeast he said it was though it was a blend from wyeast. FRED is bottle conditioned so I asked if it was the same yeast used during fermentation and he said no it is seeded with a yeast to provide carbonation and impart no flavour. I then said so there's no point harvesting the yeast to brew with and he said it would work though wouldn't get me close to the mark. So I threw the three longnecks I had cultured in the bin this afternoon. My first attempt at culturing yeast and it was pointless. I think again Lusty, without even trying it, your pretty close wit those hops I've only brewed with citra, cascade and amarillo and I think it may contain these though as I said before I'm not that good at it. Keep hassling those suppliers mate and hopefully they'll have it in soon enough. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 G'day guys, A mate was up at Murray's yesterday he said he saw a pallet 4 foot high of Amarillo so that's one ticked off the list as they only use New Zealand and Australia hops in all their other brews. Kegging today so will be making a start tomorrow just realized that one would be in the fridge and one in the cupboard. Cupboard has been keeping about 22C- 23C so not to warm I would rather try to keep them at the same temp but I'm to keen to get on with it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 G'day fellas, Now I only purchased 90g of Zythos and 90g FF so I was thinking of bittering with a combo of 15g Amarillo and 15g Citra for each and use the others as late additions to make more use of their flavour and aroma. I thought I would go 30g Amarillo/Citra @ 60, then 20g @ 20 min, 20g @ 10 min, 30g @ flame out and 20g dry hop. The Zythos has AA% 9.7 and the FF 9.9%. These are my first extract brews and I haven't yet played around with spread sheets and such so I wouldn't have a clue about IBUs and all that just flying by the seat of my pants. Any thoughts? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi Brownsworthy. Re-creating hop schedules used in commercial beers is never easy, especially when very little is disclosed as is the case here. I've used Amarillo & Citra as bittering additions in the past & due to their co-humulone levels being very low (21-24%) they present very smooth when used this way. In a sweet malted beer this can present a problem where the malt dominates the bittering & unbalances the beer where it presents too sweet at the glass despite the IBU numbers suggesting otherwise. As the quote from Murray's website stated an "assertive bitterness" & a somewhat sweet malt bill, I'd personally be reluctant to use them back end for bittering here in a beer style where you want some 'bite' in the bitterness. That's just my view though. The following schedule is what I would go with (& will when I get around to brewing this recipe). For a first time with the hop, get a feel for it, & keep it simple. Zythos (9.7%AA) 45gms @ 60mins (52.38 IBU) Zythos 15gms @ 20mins (10.60 IBU) Zythos 15gms @ 15mins (8.66 IBU) Zythos 15gms @ 5mins (3.46 IBU) = 75.1 IBU (same as quoted for the commercial beer) Then dry hop with other suitable blends @ 50gms or more+ Hairy has sampled the beer, & that goes a long way to guessing proposed hop structures when attempting to clone beers. Hopefully he'll pass on his thoughts & offer some further advice at some point. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Excellent Will do Lusty I think you're right about keeping it simple and getting a feel for the hops thanks again mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 IMO with big beers they are better served getting more IBUs from the later additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 IMO with big beers they are better served getting more IBUs from the later additions. Any thoughts on schedule with 90g? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 IMO with big beers they are better served getting more IBUs from the later additions. Any thoughts on schedule with 90g? That's the hard thing. Not really enough hops to hit it hard. My last IPA had 226 grams of hops in it. I'd be bittering with Citra and going hard late with the Zythos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Wow Thanks heaps ben will take note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 That's what my mouth says. Perhaps go with Lusty's idea. Drink and go again. It's all about learning. A year of IPA making has me with what I lovee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 G'day guys So last Sunday I got the first attempt down I'll call it Frederick 1. 1.5kg Light Malt Extract 1.5kg Amber malt extract 500g LDM 250g Dry Wheat Malt 250g Carared 90g Zythos 2×us-05 Steeped Carared then boiled in 5 liters of water and LDM I tried to stick to Lusty's hop schedule, 45g @ 60 min 15g @ 20 min 15g@ 15 min 15g @ 5 min, though my electronic scales decided to play silly buggers and had to use the old kitchen scales which resulted in 20 - 25g for the 5 min addition. Then chuck it all in the fv yeast pitched @ 22C fermenting 23- 24C. Then on Monday I put down Frederick 2 1.5kg Light Malt Extract 1.5kg Briess Liquid Munich malt 500g LDM 250g Dry Wheat Malt 250g Carared 30g Citra 90g Falconers Flight 2 × us -05 Steeped Carared then boiled with LDM 30g Citra @ 60 min, 15g FF @ 20 min, 15g FF @ 15 min, 15g FF @ 10 min, 15g FF @ flame out and keep 30g for dry hopping. Threw it all in the fv yeast pitched @ 23C fermenting @ 18C. I wanted to make a bit more use of the FF for flavour / aroma and wanted to dry hop with some so I used the Citra for bittering, as ben had suggested, hopefully it won't put much flavour out and lets the FF shine. Both are going well and smell amazing, whether they're close to Fred or not I'm still extremely excited about doing my first 2 extract brews and have learnt alot in doing so. Thanks again fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi Brownsworthy. I can't help but admit I am very envious of both the brews you have down right now. I would expect them to produce a pair of scrumdiddlioceous beers that even Ned Flanders would be proud of! Really cool hop schedules combined with solid malt bills = yummy beer. On the serious side, once drinking, definitely analyze & compare the two, & then head it in the direction you want to achieve from there. I feel you've gone about reproducing something like the FRED IPA in a very clever & measured way that will certainly have you reproducing something close to that in good time. I'll look forward to your thoughts & comments on these brews down the track. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Thanks again Lusty, Couldn't have done it without your help mate will keep you posted ! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I very much like this style/area of beer flavour, so I reckon it might be me thanking you down the track on this one! Love your work. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 All the best and let us know how they turnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Shall do Ben, And thanks for your assistance mate you have inspired me to take it up a notch with the hops I will be doing another extract IPA in the next month and will aim to use 150g - 200g of assorted US hops probably Amarillo, Citra, Cascade and maybe Simcoe or Chinook. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm having a few pale ales tonight that I brewed with a late kettle addition of Chinook. Really enjoying them, and will definitely be doing more pales with late additions of Chinook, I'll also dry hop the next one I do. Not a big enough fan of IPAs anymore to brew one myself, but I do enjoy them from time to time and I reckon Chinook would be a good addition to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 G'day guys Been busy with kegging up these two brews this morning and because I've got a couple of mates coming around tomorrow to watch the UFC tomorrow I thought I would give the gash slug's method of force carbing a go to speed things up a bit and I must say it has worked better than other methods I'd tried in the past. After chilling the kegs to 0 C I forced carbed them and thought I would have a little taste test which resulted in mixed results. The Zythos hopped brew, which was a little darker as expected, unfortunately has no real tropical or fruity flavour/aroma it's more earthy with pine and lime not bad at all just not what I'd expected from the descriptions I'd read. Now the Falconer's Flight hopped brew was dead set not that far off FRED IPA and I think just about one of my best by far it has a beautiful tropical/citrus flavour/aroma a lovely amount of bitterness and malt sweetness and the colour was just about right if maybe a little darker. I am truly impressed with how close this brew is to what was intended and can't wait to get onto the next one. The misses even had a smell and taste of it and said "that's it! It's the same." So we'll see what the mates think tomorrow I know it was a little bit rushed and I'm sure it'll clear up and get better over the next week though I'm pretty happy with it anyhow. Thanks again fellas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Nice one! If you are in the ballpark then you should have a pretty good beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Good stuff Brownsworthy! I'm glad at least one of the two proprietary blends came close. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 G'day Hairy I could send you one down, as I have bottled up 4 × 750ml bottles, so you could let me know what you think if you like? and as a little thank you for the help you've given me along the way. If so just send me an email to my "user name" @live.com Cheers mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownsworthy Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I could send you one down' date=' as I have bottled up 4 × 750ml bottles, so you could let me know what you think if you like? and as a little thank you for the help you've given me along the way. If so just send me an email to my "user name" @live.com Cheers mate[/quote'] That goes for you to Lusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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