Coopers Lager Yeast 15gr - what is it?

[Suicid]

Hi folks!

Is it something rebadged or something coopers propietary?

If it is rebadged, then what is original badge? Once I read it is fermentis s-189, but it was not confirmed anywhere else.
 

Edited March 8, 2024 by Suicid

[Pale Man]

What makes you think it's lager yeast?

[ChairmanDrew]

Where did you find this? It just looks like the generic Coopers yeast, but bigger.

[Graculus]

GERMAN LAGER YEAST (15G)

Is this it?

I wasn't aware Coopers sold 15 grams of yeast.

 

Quote

Coopers DIY Beer German Lager Yeast produces floral and fruity aromas resulting in a beer with a crisp finish. Ideal for any lager style.

Recommended Fermentation Temperature: 12-15°C (Will ferment up to 22°C with higher ester production, which may be desirable in some styles)
Flocculation: High
Attenuation: 80-84%

Net Weight: 15g
Storage: Refrigerate

 

 

$7.95

 

Edited March 9, 2024 by Graculus

[iBooz2]

@Suicid , S-189 is a Swiss lager yeast so I think it is S-23.

From the description of S-23 it's about the only lager yeast that produces fruity and estery lagers when fermented at normal lager temperatures so I would put my money on rebadged S-23.  There will be some Coopers numbers on the back of the sachet to identify it from the other 15 g sachets they sell on-line or distribute with their recipe kits.

@Graculus, yes that's the packet he is talking about, its available in the Coopers on-line store as you already know. 

Edited March 9, 2024 by iBooz2

[MuzzyMalterWhiteBeerdo]

There will be a code on the back which will help indentify what it is. Usually starts with R followed by numbers eg. Coopers Stout kit yeast comes with R0007 and Pale Ale comes with R3426.

[iBooz2]

1 hour ago, Beerdo said:

There will be a code on the back which will help indentify what it is. Usually starts with R followed by numbers eg. Coopers Stout kit yeast comes with R0007 and Pale Ale comes with R3426.

@Beerdo, The OP already knows it is a German lager yeast because that's what he ordered or that's what came in the recipe pack he ordered, and the yeast was stipulated in that.  What I think the OP is asking is what strain of German lager yeast it is hence my post above.  The number on the back will only say German Lager, Coopers will not tell you what actual strain that yeast is.

Edited March 9, 2024 by iBooz2

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

4 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Suicid , S-189 is a Swiss lager yeast so I think it is S-23.

From the description of S-23 it's about the only lager yeast that produces fruity and estery lagers when fermented at normal lager temperatures so I would put my money on rebadged S-23.  There will be some Coopers numbers on the back of the sachet to identify it from the other 15 g sachets they sell on-line or distribute with their recipe kits.

@Graculus, yes that's the packet he is talking about, its available in the Coopers on-line store as you already know. 

+1. Id bet 100 bucks its S23

[Aussiekraut]

I've come across S-23 before but never used it. What put me off was the "fruity esters". In a lager? Am I just a snob or does this sound wrong to others too? Sure, even lager yeast imparts its signature on beer but subtly. However the fruity esters are what gets me. Has anybody used this yeast to brew a lager? Do you know of any commercial beers made with it? I'd like to try before I buy  I know the yeast originates from Berlin but I cannot think of a beer that would suit the taste profile. I'm a little conflicted; keen to try it but also put off enough not to  

[Classic Brewing Co]

26 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

I've come across S-23 before but never used it. What put me off was the "fruity esters". In a lager? Am I just a snob or does this sound wrong to others too? Sure, even lager yeast imparts its signature on beer but subtly. However the fruity esters are what gets me. Has anybody used this yeast to brew a lager? Do you know of any commercial beers made with it? I'd like to try before I buy  I know the yeast originates from Berlin but I cannot think of a beer that would suit the taste profile. I'm a little conflicted; keen to try it but also put off enough not to  

The only time I have ever used it was for a Stout, I bought 2 x kits on special& they both contained S-23.

The first brew was great, but the other was brewed getting closer to winter & the yeast stalled & tainted the brew, not a severe infection but it got poured down the drain.

I won't bother with it again.

[RDT2]

19 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

The only time I have ever used it was for a Stout, I bought 2 x kits on special& they both contained S-23.

The first brew was great, but the other was brewed getting closer to winter & the yeast stalled & tainted the brew, not a severe infection but it got poured down the drain.

I won't bother with it again.

Are you talking about S04 (ale) or S-23?

Edited March 9, 2024 by RDT2

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 minutes ago, RDT2 said:

Are talking about S04?

Yeah, I got side-tracked there a bit, I will go & stand in the corner. 

[RDT2]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Yeah, I got side-tracked there a bit, I will go & stand in the corner. 

Yep and Annie’s on her way to make sure

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, RDT2 said:

Yep and Annie’s on her way to make sure

Yikes, you remembered the axe.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

4 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I've come across S-23 before but never used it. What put me off was the "fruity esters". In a lager? Am I just a snob or does this sound wrong to others too? Sure, even lager yeast imparts its signature on beer but subtly. However the fruity esters are what gets me. Has anybody used this yeast to brew a lager? Do you know of any commercial beers made with it? I'd like to try before I buy  I know the yeast originates from Berlin but I cannot think of a beer that would suit the taste profile. I'm a little conflicted; keen to try it but also put off enough not to  

Used it once. Never ever again. Yes it gives of fruity esters which is not what i want in a lager. I want clean and crisp for my lagers. If you wanted to make an NZ hoppy lager i think it would work well.

[iBooz2]

4 hours ago, RDT2 said:

Are you talking about S04 (ale) or S-23?

 

3 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Yeah, I got side-tracked there a bit, I will go & stand in the corner. 

Well, we all thank you for your input, Mr Biden.  

[iBooz2]

I have used S-23 but it was in a steam beer four years ago.  It did not turn out well because I had accidentally cold steeped dark crystal malt instead of light crystal malt.  The small pre-milled bag bought from a LHBS was only labelled "crystal malt" and no EBC numbers or anything.  I found out later when I ordered a bigger batch of the light crystal, un-milled from KL and it was a totally different colour.  It was using a Coopers Real Ale kit can and Northern brewer hops for a 10-minute boil so not really a precursor of any fruity notes and I did not notice any.  As a matter of fact, I found a bottle of this just the other day, the last bottle somehow survived.  I will chill it down and try it in a week, wonder if it will be any good after four years.

Edited March 10, 2024 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

5 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I've come across S-23 before but never used it. What put me off was the "fruity esters". In a lager? Am I just a snob or does this sound wrong to others too? Sure, even lager yeast imparts its signature on beer but subtly. However the fruity esters are what gets me. Has anybody used this yeast to brew a lager? Do you know of any commercial beers made with it? I'd like to try before I buy  I know the yeast originates from Berlin but I cannot think of a beer that would suit the taste profile. I'm a little conflicted; keen to try it but also put off enough not to  

I thought you were going to experiment with a fruity Pilsner.  See thread here.

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

Used it once. Never ever again. Yes it gives of fruity esters which is not what i want in a lager. I want clean and crisp for my lagers. If you wanted to make an NZ hoppy lager i think it would work well.

That's what my thinking is. Lagers and fruity esters aren't a particularly good fit IMHO. 

[Aussiekraut]

Just now, iBooz2 said:

I thought you were going to experiment with a fruity Pilsner.  See thread here.

Yes, I am indeed. Or at least I will, probably next week if all goes to plan. I am also a little torn about that one. I am keen to try the hops and think the best way to showcase them is a clean beer with nothing much to distract from the hops. Whether it is a good idea, I will know when it is done  At least I set it up as an NZ Pilsner, not a European one, so I always have an excuse either way  

[iBooz2]

26 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Yes, I am indeed. Or at least I will, probably next week if all goes to plan. I am also a little torn about that one. I am keen to try the hops and think the best way to showcase them is a clean beer with nothing much to distract from the hops. Whether it is a good idea, I will know when it is done  At least I set it up as an NZ Pilsner, not a European one, so I always have an excuse either way  

I too have a fruity one in the brew queue, but it will not be until probably September this year.  I might give S-23 a go in that one along with the Wai-iti hops for a nice summer sipper.

[Triple B Brewing]

6 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I've come across S-23 before but never used it. What put me off was the "fruity esters". In a lager? Am I just a snob or does this sound wrong to others too? Sure, even lager yeast imparts its signature on beer but subtly. However the fruity esters are what gets me. Has anybody used this yeast to brew a lager? Do you know of any commercial beers made with it? I'd like to try before I buy  I know the yeast originates from Berlin but I cannot think of a beer that would suit the taste profile. I'm a little conflicted; keen to try it but also put off enough not to  

Hey @Aussiekraut, I brewed a STEAM BEER Coppers Recipe without deviation which users 2 x 11.5g Saflager S-23 Dry Yeast. I rated that brew 4/5. My notes were: "After 7 days of conditioning first taste is good, clean, while it’s a good drink as is, I think I would like to taste more hops. Suggest dry hopping with 25g of US Northern Brewer Hops. An honest simple brew, easy to make - A Good base brew. I would make again. 4/5".

I have also used S-23 in the Coopers recipe VINTNER'S LAGER (again without deviation). This brew uses one 11.5g Saflager S-23 Dry Yeast and the supplied Coopers yeast from the 1.7kg Thomas Coopers 86 Days Pilsner can of extract. I will only just tap that keg tonight, but it was showing early promise as "a beer with a lot going on". - we'll see what the final verdict is in about 4 hours I reckon  

I also have the Coopers Dark Larger BLACK BEARD SCHWARZBIER scheduled for the end of June this year. This brew will use one 11.5g Saflager S-23 Dry Yeast and the supplied Coopers yeast from the 1.7kg Coopers European Lager can of extract.

So that's 3 brews I have picked out from the Coopers range of Kits n Bits recipes that are all listed as a type of Lager which use the S-23 yeast.

No idea on its use in commercial beers sorry.

Cheers ta cold beers  

[Triple B Brewing]

3 hours ago, Triple B Brewing said:

Hey @Aussiekraut, I brewed a STEAM BEER Coppers Recipe without deviation which users 2 x 11.5g Saflager S-23 Dry Yeast. I rated that brew 4/5. My notes were: "After 7 days of conditioning first taste is good, clean, while it’s a good drink as is, I think I would like to taste more hops. Suggest dry hopping with 25g of US Northern Brewer Hops. An honest simple brew, easy to make - A Good base brew. I would make again. 4/5".

I have also used S-23 in the Coopers recipe VINTNER'S LAGER (again without deviation). This brew uses one 11.5g Saflager S-23 Dry Yeast and the supplied Coopers yeast from the 1.7kg Thomas Coopers 86 Days Pilsner can of extract. I will only just tap that keg tonight, but it was showing early promise as "a beer with a lot going on". - we'll see what the final verdict is in about 4 hours I reckon  

I also have the Coopers Dark Larger BLACK BEARD SCHWARZBIER scheduled for the end of June this year. This brew will use one 11.5g Saflager S-23 Dry Yeast and the supplied Coopers yeast from the 1.7kg Coopers European Lager can of extract.

So that's 3 brews I have picked out from the Coopers range of Kits n Bits recipes that are all listed as a type of Lager which use the S-23 yeast.

No idea on its use in commercial beers sorry.

Cheers ta cold beers  

OK, so here's an update on the Coopers recipe VINTNER'S LAGER  - Sure it's still a little hazy, but it's only day 6 in the keg (so only a teenager really), and yep there certainly is a bit goin' on here. I can definitely taste the hop combination of Nelson Sauvin and Enigma, both as a bittering agent and also as a dry hop flavour, there is also a fair amount of malt flavours coming through with the addition of 250g Carahell Malt (cold steeped).

To the question of fruity notes, yep, I'm getting those notes as well, subtle, but there welcomed in the overall party that my taste buds are havin' at the moment IMHO.

In my overall (too early to really tell) rating - Happy camper - while its pretty busy in flavour profile, two minutes after the last mouthful, I'm lookin' for more - which in my books equals a strong 4+ outta 5  

I'm now empty, so I gotta get another 

Cheers !

[Aussiekraut]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

I've used S-23, W-34/70 and Lallemand Diamond and to be honest, I couldn't pick much difference.  They are cold ferment, need a warm diacetyl rest to avoid butter, and take up a lot of fermenter fridge space for a long time.  Then you need to cold store for a long time to drink them.  Nice beer but a lot of work for little return.  I can't say I noticed anything fruity with S-23.

I use W34 or Dubbya as it is called affectionally exclusively for German style lagers. Nova is great and I use it a fair bit. Diamond I've only used once and the beer is currently in the fermenter but it isn't a suitable candidate to test the yeast flavours. One day I will do a double batch and ferment them at the same time with different yeasts but otherwise equal treatment. Then we'll see if I can pick up the difference. I agree, lagers take a long time. usually 3 weeks in the fermenter and then whatever time I give them to actually mature in cold storage. Maybe I will get myself some S-23, just to try it. I'm sure it won't throw fruity flavours like Verdant does  

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, glivo said:

My maternal grandfather had a saying when we drove through any town while on day trips or going away on longer family fishing holidays.  "Good beer in that pub", he'd say as we drove through the main street of most any country town.  At one point he was a travelling sales rep so he knew most of them.  His comment would often result in my grandmother suggesting we stop "so the kids can have a break".  She was quite partial to a drop of the amber as well but only drank middies.  They were around in the days when you had to be a "traveller" to buy a beer at the bar on a Sunday, hence the term "Sunday Driver", which had nothing to do with Church attendance.  My Pop's name was Thomas Cooper.  (No, not the same one.)

Anyway, I will soon honour his memory by starting to make Thomas Cooper Golden Crown Lager for the first time.  The nights are growing colder, down to overnight 11'C this week, so time to go the Lager route again.  Just the other day I managed to purchase 2 cans of extract from the local HBS, reduced as they are just OOD by only 6 weeks (8 weeks today).  I was going to use the last pack of Diamond Yeast I have left over, but I've now read that the yeast provided with the extract is a Lager Yeast.  It is marked R3424 and by all accounts it's supposed to be a lager yeast.

The instructions here, are a bit confused (with one obvious error) but it does say, "while your brew ferments try to keep the brew temperature consistent and at the lower end of 13°C-18°C."  This certainly suggests it is in fact a lager yeast.

I will harvest and wash this yeast from the first 2 FVs and reuse it throughout this winter.  If it works out, I may even attempt to freeze some for next year.  I can't find anywhere what this yeast is although I guess it doesn't matter too much.  It's a cold ferment lager yeast so that will do me.

Yeast Expiry:  Batch code = 19521. This gives 170 days in 2021, 365 days in each 2022 and 2023 plus 40 days in 2024.  This is a total of 940 days during which the yeast is "good" and still in date, so surely after just an extra 50 or 60 days it should still be OK.  I've used older yeast without it causing any issue.  In fact, I've never come across a packet that didn't work.

This is not the OS Coopers Lager can is it? That one used to come with an ale yeast. he yeast is very old and while it may only be a fairly short time over the BB date, it may not be particularly viable. Since you are into washing yeast and keeping some, it may be an idea to make a starter to see what you get. If you overbuild the starter, you can even set some aside for another starter and keep it going that way. Less hassle than harvesting the slurry and washing the yeast.