Cubing All Grain Beers.

[Pale Man]

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Pale Man

[Back Brewing]

1 hour ago, Pale Man said:

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

I have been doing a lot of reading on this subject and it all comes down to what hops and the time in the wort above 80c it is sill bittering

I found a thread with a lot of aussie brewers who have been doing it for years and methods have ranged from any late additions 20 minutes and under get thrown into the cube when you pour the wirt into the cube.

Another guy says he pours off 2 litres of wort when he is transferring to the fv and does a mini boil with the hop addition intervals and pours that into the wort

[Kegory]

Would a hop spider solve that problem by removing the hops from the hot wort before you pour it into the cube?

[Back Brewing]

17 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Would a hop spider solve that problem by removing the hops from the hot wort before you pour it into the cube?

It does a bit but some hops still get into the wort I'm going to cube when I go all grain but I'm going to do the mini boil 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Back Brewing

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Pale Man said:

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

Paley,

Lose the Chiller, a waste of water unless you have something like @Shamus O'Sean or @Hoppy81 the unit that comes with the BrewZilla is a very basic & a waste of time, without mentioning the extreme waste of water, I just cannot justify it.

I have been using the no-chill method for some time, Keg land sell the 20l cubes for $10 each. I have a few of them. You can safely store the wort for up to 2 months.

I have a system where I wait until the hot wort is down to about 80c & simply drain the BZ via the blue tap, the cube sits on a floor trolley from Bunnings ($18) & it is easy to fill it if you place it right near the tap.

One it is filled depending on your batch size, say 20l, you can either leave it or simply top it up with water which will result in a lower ABV, but it is OK.

It is important to quickly fit the cap & move it around on the floor rotating it each side & finally leave it on its side to help sanitise the tap area.

I use the tiled laundry floor & it is good to go in the morning.

Cheers

Phil

[Classic Brewing Co]

I forgot to mention if you want to get scientific you have to adjust your hop schedule, but TBH I have never bothered & simply follow the brew instructions & do a infusion of 50 gms with your favourite hops. 3-4 days before kegging works for me.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Classic Brewing Co

[Back Brewing]

2 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

Also the 20 litre cube from kegland says at the absolute brim it will take 23 litres

[Back Brewing]

Some of the experienced no chill brewers have pitched a brew 6 months later that's the beauty of no chill you can have a few brews around and pitch them when needed 

[Kegory]

26 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

Some of the experienced no chill brewers have pitched a brew 6 months later that's the beauty of no chill you can have a few brews around and pitch them when needed 

So, basically you are making a FWK when you cube it.

[Back Brewing]

7 minutes ago, Kegory said:

So, basically you are making a FWK when you cube it.

That is exactly what a fwk is so if you know someone who does all grain you can give them the grains,hops and yeast 

They then brew it and cube it for you then you take it home put it in the fv and pitch the yeast

Edited November 11, 2023 by Back Brewing

[Kegory]

23 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

That is exactly what a fwk is so if you know someone who does all grain you can give them the grains,hops and yeast 

They then brew it and cube it for you then you take it home put it in the fv and pitch the yeast

Do you sanitize the cube or do you just rely on the hot wort to pasteurize it?

[Back Brewing]

3 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Do you sanitize the cube or do you just rely on the hot wort to pasteurize it?

Sanize first I would also hit it with sodium percarbonate first keep everything clean

Edited November 11, 2023 by Back Brewing

[Classic Brewing Co]

18 minutes ago, Kegory said:

Do you sanitize the cube or do you just rely on the hot wort to pasteurize it?

You have to sanitise the cube as you do everything. 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

4 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

I cube basically eveything now. I used to fast chill lagers but what i do now is essentially a fast chill. Yes no chilling does bugger around with a hop schedule. You have two choices in my opinion. Adjust the hop schedule or what i tend to do is cube it and drop the cube in a cold water tub with 4 frozen PET bottles. This drops it quickly below the temp which more bittering will happen. Now i wouldnt do this if you are keeping the cubes for a long time. It wont give enough time at high temp to sterilise the cube. I always pitch the next day so it doesnt matter really. As long as the cube is clean. Some drop the cube in pools which does basically what i do. 

Anyway thats an option for you mate

[RDT2]

21 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

20 litre is big enough it will expand and you well and truly have enough. I have only cubed pilsners, dunkels, aussie lagers and stouts and just added the initial bittering hops at 45 rather than 60. Never done a neipa or a late hopping/whirlpool beer as such though! I fine with gelatine and beer come out clear for my lagers etc!

[Pale Man]

Some good replys thanks people!! I forgot about kegland and went and bought a cube on ebay thats cost me more. Oh well.

[Aussiekraut]

15 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Im getting back into my All Grain brewing. I dont want to have to deal with chilling my wort, and then so I'm going down cubing my wort.

Theres some good brewers around that do this. So any advice would be good.

I keg, so is a 20 litre container ok?

Hopping..........do I need to change my hop schedule? Hops are in a hot wort for quite a while. Do I under hop for bitterness and flavour?

Any advice is welcome.

I moved away from chilling when we moved house and am quite happy cubing. I use two Kegland cubes which are perfectly fine for what I need them to do. They hold a keg with a little extra, catering for fermenter loss.

I never worried bout the impact of hops. I use a hop spider and while there are always some bits getting into the wort, most of the hop matter would have dropped out after the whirlpool. Those minute amounts won't have much impact if any. The wort cools fast enough to ensure there isn't much AA isomerised to make things any more bitter, especially after an 80C hop stand, and if the hops have been in >80C wort, there is no BA left to isomerise I would presume. 

The only real downside of cubing is that you lose a day from kettle to FV. 

I also sanitise the cube before I fill it and put it into the fridge to get it to pitching temp fairly quickly.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Aussiekraut

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Aussiekraut said:

I moved away from chilling when we moved house and am quite happy cubing. I use two Kegland cubes which are perfectly fine for what I need them to do. They hold a keg with a little extra, catering for fermenter loss.

I never worried bout the impact of hops. I use a hop spider and while there are always some bits getting into the wort, most of the hop matter would have dropped out after the whirlpool. Those minute amounts won't have much impact if any. The wort cools fast enough to ensure there isn't much AA isomerised to make things any more bitter, especially after an 80C hop stand, and if the hops have been in >80C wort, there is no BA left to isomerise I would presume. 

The only real downside of cubing is that you lose a day from kettle to FV. 

Yeah, I agree cubing is the way to go & I too have never bothered to worry about the hops, I just follow the recipe & so far all of the beers have tasted fine, if I think it needs it I add ann infusion 4 days before kegging.

For those who have the bigger more effective chillers, that's OK too but I have nowhere for the water to go than down the drain which is a shocking waste. I have no lawn out the back anymore as I have paved & landscaped with veg & herbs growing.

[Aussiekraut]

2 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Yeah, I agree cubing is the way to go & I too have never bothered to worry about the hops, I just follow the recipe & so far all of the beers have tasted fine, if I think it needs it I add ann infusion 4 days before kegging.

For those who have the bigger more effective chillers, that's OK too but I have nowhere for the water to go than down the drain which is a shocking waste. I have no lawn out the back anymore as I have paved & landscaped with veg & herbs growing.

Yeah, water usage is an issue. I used to use a 15m coil immersion chiller, which got the wort to pitching temp in 20-40 minutes, depending on the season. I did let the water run off into the pool at the old place as it needed frequent topping up anyway but without a pool, I cannot justify using 150+ litres of water, sometimes twice a day on double brew days. Putting a cube into the fridge cools it off fairly quickly anyway.

Chill or no chill is always good for arguments about wasting time, being lazy etc. I remember the hefty discussions here a few years back  

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Aussiekraut said:

Yeah, water usage is an issue. I used to use a 15m coil immersion chiller, which got the wort to pitching temp in 20-40 minutes, depending on the season. I did let the water run off into the pool at the old place as it needed frequent topping up anyway but without a pool, I cannot justify using 150+ litres of water, sometimes twice a day on double brew days. Putting a cube into the fridge cools it off fairly quickly anyway.

Chill or no chill is always good for arguments about wasting time, being lazy etc. I remember the hefty discussions here a few years back  

Well as soon as I stopped it, brew day was over an hour earlier. 

 

 

[NBillett09]

Maybe I don’t have a proper grasp on how the coil or counter flow chiller work, but is it really not that feasible to have it circulating water into/from a bucket or other vessel, perhaps with ice in it?  That would solve the wastage aspect.

[Pale Man]

1 hour ago, NBillett09 said:

Maybe I don’t have a proper grasp on how the coil or counter flow chiller work, but is it really not that feasible to have it circulating water into/from a bucket or other vessel, perhaps with ice in it?  That would solve the wastage aspect.

Chilling with anything is not an option for me at the moment. Thats why this thread. My work hours have changed and I have to squeeze everything into a weekend.

And I'm planning to bang out some all grain beers that my kegs wont keep up with. So storage of wort is on the cards.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Pale Man

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 minutes ago, Pale Man said:

Chilling with anything is not an option for me at the moment. Thats why this thread. My work hours have changed and I have to squeeze everything into a weekend.

And I'm planning to bang out some all grain beers that my fermenter / fermenters wont keep up with. So storage of wort is on the cards.

It was always my intention to have 3-4 kegs on tap with a few filled cubes on standby, but it hasn't happened yet, a lot of work but it would be worth it.

This Xmas I intend to crank up my brew days & try & make it happen.

That's why the no-chill method is such a no brainer. 

[Pale Man]

3 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

It was always my intention to have 3-4 kegs on tap with a few filled cubes on standby, but it hasn't happened yet, a lot of work but it would be worth it.

This Xmas I intend to crank up my brew days & try & make it happen.

That's why the no-chill method is such a no brainer. 

I changed my post to say kegs not fermenters.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, Pale Man said:

I changed my post to say kegs not fermenters.

Yeah, it makes more sense now.