Using a Dishwasher to Clean Bottles

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

So why are you trying to compare methods to breweries to discredit someone else's method? 

My point is when you drink a beer in a pub the glass has been through the dishwasher with  solution including detergent and well rinsed.

Do you enjoy the beers and glasses you drink in pubs or complain and tell them what you would do? 

You go beyond an opinion when you do what you do beating you're own drum. 

 

Mate I am over this, I really don't care about going on & on about this subject, as I said before I just responded with my opinion as someone raised the topic.

So, I think you are barking up the wrong tree & I will continue with my methods.

Hasta la vista baby.

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, Kegory said:

I've never seen no rinse sanitizer advertised anywhere. Coopers recommend sanitizing everything but they don't actually sell it.

They used to I still have some empty bottles of the stuff.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

22 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Mate I am over this, I really don't care about going on & on about this subject, as I said before I just responded with my opinion as someone raised the topic.

So, I think you are barking up the wrong tree & I will continue with my methods.

Hasta la vista baby.

You don't care about going on and on? Lol that certainly is the biggest joke of the day.

  If you cant understand or acknowledge that comparing methods to what commercial brewers may do isn't having a dig at someone else's methods. And that by doing so you are trying to discredit that method you are truly lost. 

So by saying each to their own while also having a little dig is pointless as you undo saying it with the dig.

You also tip toed around the fact that you have drank from a glass in a pub washed with the methods you discourage.  Never seen a post where you said it was a bad beer or glass. 

So yes please if you can't answer any of these questions with facts or explain you're hypocrisy please be quiet on the subject.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Uhtred Of Beddanburg

[GregT5]

How did this thread degenerate into a slanging match about glass washing techniques when the OP asked for people's opinions about washing BOTTLES in a dishwasher?

[Oldbloke]

3 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

Exactly so times have changed and we are now told by the people who want to sell product that no rinse sanitiser is essential.

Apparently rinsing takes away the safety part of what you just cleaned.  But I'm sure as in old blokes experience failures were minimal and not worth the worry? 

If you rise with clean town water it should be fine. Town water is to all intense and purposes, sterile. 

 

Sanitising isn't about eliminating bacteria.  It's just about minimising the numbers of bacteria.  People forget they are in the air in the billions and on everything we touch. You can't eliminate them from everything.

 

e.g. you wash your dishes and then put them away in the cupboard.  Same with cutlery. They sit there a day or two gathering bacteria.  You don't sterilise them 20 seconds before you use them do you. Why would beer bottles be any different? If they are clean they will be OK.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

10 minutes ago, GregT5 said:

How did this thread degenerate into a slanging match about glass washing techniques when the OP asked for people's opinions about washing BOTTLES in a dishwasher?

Read back to the start if you want that answer. In all fairness a bottle and a glass are both glass so really you could consider cleaning methods similar. Its all about the rinsing

 

11 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

If you rise with clean town water it should be fine. Town water is to all intense and purposes, sterile. 

 

Sanitising isn't about eliminating bacteria.  It's just about minimising the numbers of bacteria.  People forget they are in the air in the billions and on everything we touch. You can't eliminate them from everything.

 

e.g. you wash your dishes and then put them away in the cupboard.  Same with cutlery. They sit there a day or two gathering bacteria.  You don't sterilise them 20 seconds before you use them do you. Why would beer bottles be any different? If they are clean they will be OK.

Exactly well said

[Kegory]

50 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

If you rise with clean town water it should be fine. Town water is to all intense and purposes, sterile. 

 

Sanitising isn't about eliminating bacteria.  It's just about minimising the numbers of bacteria.  People forget they are in the air in the billions and on everything we touch. You can't eliminate them from everything.

 

e.g. you wash your dishes and then put them away in the cupboard.  Same with cutlery. They sit there a day or two gathering bacteria.  You don't sterilise them 20 seconds before you use them do you. Why would beer bottles be any different? If they are clean they will be OK.

That's comparing apples with oranges. With the dishes you put food on them then eat it. It is quite different to filling a vessel with a sugary substance and then holding them at a warm temperature for weeks on end.

Maybe it's not necessary but that analogy is not a like for like comparison.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

9 minutes ago, Kegory said:

That's comparing apples with oranges. With the dishes you put food on them then eat it. It is quite different to filling a vessel with a sugary substance and then holding them at a warm temperature for weeks on end.

Maybe it's not necessary but that analogy is not a like for like comparison.

Most of the time that comes down to an individual and tolerances. Overseas can eat food made with poor hygiene and practices that would put some people in hostpital but they are fine. 

The same can be said for beer and way its made and stored. In the old days all beer was probably considered off in today's standards. 

The ones they said were off and tipped must have been shockers. Old blokes point is still valid if he personally has experience with it.

Rinse well after use and run through the dishwasher and cover until use works for him. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

9 hours ago, GregT5 said:

How did this thread degenerate into a slanging match about glass washing techniques when the OP asked for people's opinions about washing BOTTLES in a dishwasher?

Mate I have no idea, someone asked the question, I simply answered it & shared my methods.

Unfortunately, everybody else answered it too obviously with different ideas. 

Thats OK I will just carry on as I have been for many years.

[Cheap Charlie]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:00 PM, GregT5 said:

How did this thread degenerate into a slanging match

What have I started?

On 7/16/2023 at 11:02 PM, Oldbloke said:

If you rise with clean town water it should be fine. Town water is to all intense and purposes, sterile. 

I would have to disagree there, my town water is garbage and I always filter it, but fine for rinsing yes.

On 7/15/2023 at 2:51 PM, Aussiekraut said:

What the cleaning agents in the tabs and the clear rinse would do regarding head formation, I can't tell but since my beer glasses seem to perform better, it might be ok.

Since I started washing my beer glasses in the dishwasher, I have also noticed an improvement in performance.

On 7/16/2023 at 6:23 PM, Oldbloke said:

My simple suggestion is justvtry it.

I did, with the advice from other sites on the web I read, they said to use the dishwasher without detergent etc. They didn't turn out that well, i.e. condensation on the inside. I will try it again using detergent and rinse aid as you suggest.

On 7/15/2023 at 1:34 PM, Classic Brewing Co said:

Do NOT ever eliminate sanitising anything to do with brewing at home.

TBH I don't bother much with santisation, as I often dirty batch a few brews in a row. I'm guilty of rinsing utensils in hot tap water and stirring my brews with them. In fact, I dispensed with using stellarsan "magic spray" solution altogether! It always makes me laugh when I see home brew videos and the brewers go mad with the magic spray - even spraying the yeast packet before opening! I guess using it just makes them feel better So far I've never had a problem, but I don't use plastic equipment as I feel they are breeding grounds for bacteria - I mainly use glass and stainless steel equipment.

On 7/16/2023 at 7:15 PM, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

and we are now told by the people who want to sell product that no rinse sanitiser is essential.

Yes, I agree - a scam, although I do use it to clean my gear from time to time.

On 7/16/2023 at 5:59 PM, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

You blokes really do like going on about the same stuff over and over.

I should have researched further within the forum - I was just curious on the other members' methods. It has been a fun read and thanks for the input guys!

[Oldbloke]

28 minutes ago, Cheap Charlie said:

What have I started?

I would have to disagree there, my town water is garbage and I always filter it, but fine for rinsing yes.

Since I started washing my beer glasses in the dishwasher, I have also noticed an improvement in performance.

I did, with the advice from other sites on the web I read, they said to use the dishwasher without detergent etc. They didn't turn out that well, i.e. condensation on the inside. I will try it again using detergent and rinse aid as you suggest.

TBH I don't bother much with santisation, as I often dirty batch a few brews in a row. I'm guilty of rinsing utensils in hot tap water and stirring my brews with them. In fact, I dispensed with using stellarsan "magic spray" solution altogether! It always makes me laugh when I see home brew videos and the brewers go mad with the magic spray - even spraying the yeast packet before opening! I guess using it just makes them feel better So far I've never had a problem, but I don't use plastic equipment as I feel they are breeding grounds for bacteria - I mainly use glass and stainless steel equipment.

Yes, I agree - a scam, although I do use it to clean my gear from time to time.

I should have researched further within the forum - I was just curious on the other members' methods. It has been a fun read and thanks for the input guys!

I'm, surprised about your water.  It's a requirement it meet AU standards. Certainly most towns do. You could check out your water supplier/board and ask. If in doubt boil I guess. Or add some chlorine, then air.

 

Plastic should be ok. SS would be better though. Wood was banned from butchers knives years ago for hygiene reasons. They pretty much all have plastic handles now.

 

Your dish washer should have a drying cycle. 95% of mine come out dry. Perhaps check yr settings.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Oldbloke

[Cheap Charlie]

9 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

I'm, surprised about your water.  It's a requirement it meet AU standards. Certainly most towns do. You could check out your water supplier/board and ask. If in doubt boil I guess. Or add some chlorine, then air.

It certainly does meet Australian Standards. Unfortunately it is full of chlorine and other chemicals which I don't like. Ever since I installed an under sink filter, the taste alone of the water is just like bottled water and I can't go back to town water after drinking filtered water for years. It makes a better brew too.

I will give the dishwasher another run next time I clean a bunch of bottles.

[Oldbloke]

10 minutes ago, Cheap Charlie said:

It certainly does meet Australian Standards. Unfortunately it is full of chlorine and other chemicals which I don't like. Ever since I installed an under sink filter, the taste alone of the water is just like bottled water and I can't go back to town water after drinking filtered water for years. It makes a better brew too.

I will give the dishwasher another run next time I clean a bunch of bottles.

Yes, the chlorine (unscented bleach) is added to all water supplies.  It kills the bacteria.  (But not everything) The amount added varies of the levels of bacteria/contamination in the source water. 

 

Chlorine evaporates pretty quickly.

IIRC pour directly from your tap about 5 litres into a bucket. Give it the sniff and taste test. Then try it again in say 8 hours. Chlorine smell will be reduced, taste too. Try again next day. 

 

IIRC. About 1 teaspoon of unscented household bleach will sterilise about 100 ltrs after about 30 minutes.

 

Could well be corrected tho.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

@Cheap Charlie no rinse sanitiser is handy to use sometimes as it does help to keep stuff clean.  

My point was not explained very well.  I more meant that it was not needed every time if something had already been cleaned with sodium perc or bleach then rinsed in hot water. 

It's an extra step that's been added and some people do 3 or 4 steps of cleaning/sanitising each time they brew or bottle.

That's up to the individual but for years before no rinse sanitiser all people did was clean and rinse and im sure failures were minimal. 

One in every dozen brews I might give equipment both sodium perc and no rinse sanitiser but not every one.

3 1/2 years since brewing this time around and not a single infected brew or bottle or keg. 

Before then years before when brewed I had some infection with old fermenter with low tap and airlock. Before I found out about taking tap apart to clean.

[Pale Man]

A bit off topic but I did a side by side glass clean with Bi Carb Soda ala @Classic Brewing Co  advice, and washing up detergent, my method.

Both glasses my favourites. Washed in a clean sink, and swilled thoroughly with hot water.

Both still pour a thick and lasting beading head.

To me its all about getting rid of the grease and grime, no matter how you get there in the end.

[Oldbloke]

1 hour ago, Pale Man said:

A bit off topic but I did a side by side glass clean with Bi Carb Soda ala @Classic Brewing Co  advice, and washing up detergent, my method.

Both glasses my favourites. Washed in a clean sink, and swilled thoroughly with hot water.

Both still pour a thick and lasting beading head.

To me its all about getting rid of the grease and grime, no matter how you get there in the end.

I agree. But this thread is about bottles. For some reason people keep talking about glasses.  

[Kegory]

22 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

I agree. But this thread is about bottles. For some reason people keep talking about glasses.  

That's the nature of the internet. Also the nature of people. Getting people on the internet to stick to the topic at hand is as easy as herding cats.

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

I agree. But this thread is about bottles. For some reason people keep talking about glasses.  

Glass is glass, bottles should be be treated like  glasses, treat them right & you will have have a nice head on you beer.

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 hours ago, Pale Man said:

A bit off topic but I did a side by side glass clean with Bi Carb Soda ala @Classic Brewing Co  advice, and washing up detergent, my method.

Both glasses my favourites. Washed in a clean sink, and swilled thoroughly with hot water.

Both still pour a thick and lasting beading head.

To me its all about getting rid of the grease and grime, no matter how you get there in the end.

Good on you Pale bloke, I agree that is important, difference is your AG brews would still still get a head in a swagman's billy tin.  

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

5 hours ago, Pale Man said:

A bit off topic but I did a side by side glass clean with Bi Carb Soda ala @Classic Brewing Co  advice, and washing up detergent, my method.

Both glasses my favourites. Washed in a clean sink, and swilled thoroughly with hot water.

Both still pour a thick and lasting beading head.

To me its all about getting rid of the grease and grime, no matter how you get there in the end.

Exactly what I have said multiple times the excessive rinsing is required by most methods with the same results. So all this nonsense I won't let this near my bla bla bla is pointless. 

And I did think someone had said hasta la vista baby to this topic but apparently was harder than he thought.

@Oldbloke @Kegory yes off topic happens all the time and we are all guilty of it whether or not we realise it.

Someone once tried to say it to me on here when first joined. Then found countless times them and many others on here babling on about different things in the wrong thread

Crap happens move on

Edited July 19, 2023 by Uhtred Of Beddanburg

[Pale Man]

10 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

I agree. But this thread is about bottles. For some reason people keep talking about glasses.  

Ah get a grip

[Cheap Charlie]

23 hours ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

One in every dozen brews I might give equipment both sodium perc and no rinse sanitiser but not every one.

That's what I do, and yet to have an infected brew.

[Cheap Charlie]

@Oldbloke Hey mate, I followed your method and used a tablet with rins aid and the bottles came out perfect with no condensation on the inside! No more grease and grime on the outside (after a lot of uses) and a lot easier than individually washing the outside. Most of those bottles were rinsed not long after I poured a beer as I usually do, some the next day, and they were all spotless on the inside. My dishwasher apparently gets up to 70º so good enough for me

 

[Graculus]

@Cheap Charlie all well and good if that's the way you want to clean.  Personally it's not what I would do, but anyhow.

Seems like too much hassle for me. Like when would the dishwasher ever be empty for one thing.

I've never washed bottles like that, but isn't using a tablet & rinse aid detergent, which most people would keep away from their beer bottles and glasses?

I'm just wondering the the 70C water would have been sufficient.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Graculus

[Cheap Charlie]

14 minutes ago, Graculus said:

I'm just wondering the the 70C water would have been sufficient.

yeah each one to their own beliefs, all good. I will try it out and post back on this thread the results after I bottle again with these bottles