Using a Dishwasher to Clean Bottles

[Cheap Charlie]

Are there any opinions or experiences out there for using a dishwasher to clean/sanitise bottles? I think I have read @Oldbloke uses a dishwasher to clean his Bundaberg Ginger Beer bottles (correct me if I'm mistaken). 

Is it worthwhile, i.e. is it effective? Pointless? Can you eliminate sanitising in solution if you rinse the bottles straight after pouring a brew? Tallies/longnecks vs stubbies?

Just a general bottle cleaning thread, just looking for opinions on how others clean their bottles. Cheers.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Cheap Charlie said:

Are there any opinions or experiences out there for using a dishwasher to clean/sanitise bottles? I think I have read @Oldbloke uses a dishwasher to clean his Bundaberg Ginger Beer bottles (correct me if I'm mistaken). 

Is it worthwhile, i.e. is it effective? Pointless? Can you eliminate sanitising in solution if you rinse the bottles straight after pouring a brew? Tallies/longnecks vs stubbies?

Just a general bottle cleaning thread, just looking for opinions on how others clean their bottles. Cheers.

This topic keeps coming up over the years & I have shared my thoughts & procedures many times.

It is not necessarily the opinion others, but I simply don't care.

None of my beer glasses go anywhere the dishwasher, the sink full of dishes as all soap, detergent products simply kill your chances of obtaining a decent lasting head on your beer.

I personally use a small amount of Bi-Carbonate of Soda in the sink with water & use a dedicated brush to give them a thorough clean paying attention to the rim of the glass inside & out.

Lipstick, greasy foods, potato chips etc. leave an oily film & it needs to be removed. I only use a dedicated cloth to clean the complete inside & they are rinsed thoroughly turned upside down to drain.

I dry them with a microfiber cloth that are only used for this purpose.

I am very fussy with a head on my beers & this is I achieve it.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, Classic Brewing Co said:

This topic keeps coming up over the years & I have shared my thoughts & procedures many times.

It is not necessarily the opinion others, but I simply don't care.

None of my beer glasses go anywhere the dishwasher, the sink full of dishes as all soap, detergent products simply kill your chances of obtaining a decent lasting head on your beer.

I personally use a small amount of Bi-Carbonate of Soda in the sink with water & use a dedicated brush to give them a thorough clean paying attention to the rim of the glass inside & out.

Lipstick, greasy foods, potato chips etc. leave an oily film & it needs to be removed. I only use a dedicated cloth to clean the complete inside & they are rinsed thoroughly turned upside down to drain.

I dry them with a microfiber cloth that are only used for this purpose.

I am very fussy with a head on my beers & this is I achieve it.

There are many topics on this subject on the internet & I didn't post them as other's have seen the a few times. We all have our own ways of doing things, but this process is the way I have done things for many years, the reason - it works!

Believe me, I have a few beer glasses 

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Cheap Charlie said:

Can you eliminate sanitising in solution if you rinse the bottles straight after pouring a brew? Tallies/longnecks vs stubbies?

Do NOT ever eliminate sanitising anything to do with brewing at home.

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, Cheap Charlie said:

Are there any opinions or experiences out there for using a dishwasher to clean/sanitise bottles? I think I have read @Oldbloke uses a dishwasher to clean his Bundaberg Ginger Beer bottles (correct me if I'm mistaken). 

Is it worthwhile, i.e. is it effective? Pointless? Can you eliminate sanitising in solution if you rinse the bottles straight after pouring a brew? Tallies/longnecks vs stubbies?

Just a general bottle cleaning thread, just looking for opinions on how others clean their bottles. Cheers.

Not sure if it is a good idea. Dishwashers are great and I find that dishwasher cleaned glasses have much better head retention than just sink washed. However, I have reservations regarding the jets getting inside the bottle in a way that they clean everything. What the cleaning agents in the tabs and the clear rinse would do regarding head formation, I can't tell but since my beer glasses seem to perform better, it might be ok.

I used to just rinse my bottles right after decanting, then put them on a shelf with the others. On bottling day, I'd soak them in a sodium percarbonate for an hour or two using an 80l tub. Then I'd rinse them and dry them on a bottling tree. When dry, I soaked them in a StellarSan solution and let them drip dry for half an hour. Time-consuming and possibly a little OTT but I didn't have any dramas. Some do pretty much nothing and appear to get away with it. 

But the topic around cleaning bottles is a little contentious around here. Some swear by the highest standards of cleanliness, others don't seem to give a crapperoony about things when it comes to cleaning and sanitising. In the end, the choice is yours and what works for you is what counts.

[Kegory]

I just soak my bottles in a tub of cleaning solution and every few days I pull them all out, give them a scrub with a bottlebrush, then rinse them thoroughly. I let them dry on the bottle tree then bag the tops and box them.

When I'm ready to use them I sanitize them with a no rinse sanitizer.

This method has worked for me for weeks going on months and I'm unlikely to change it in the foreseeable future.

Speaking of which, my tub is full and the bottles on the tree must be dry by now so I should put into practice what I'm preaching so there'll be some room in the tub tonight.

[Oldbloke]

@Cheap Charlie .

I just rinsed my bottles with warm/hot water shortly after drinking for years. But after a few brews they got a layer of dead yeast or scum inside. When this happened it would be "off" or a foamer. Then I cleaned bottles for years using a brush or similar and dish soap, say every second brew. worked ok, but not 100% & labour intensive. At one pointi i did try soaking them over night in a couple of commonly used detergents, such as nappy San, but results were poor.

 

For a few years now 95% just get a good rinse and in the dish washer daily up side down. Normal dish washer block + rinse aid stuff. They are in with dirty dishes.

 

95% come out sparkling.  No further cleaning or rinsing. 5% get a second go in the dish washer. I never sanitise bottles. Worst scenario I lose 1 bottle in 100. IMO not worth the effort. Sanitise FV every time.

 

Once out of dish washer they stand up right in a crate ready to fill, I just have a clean towel over them to stop dust or bugs getting in. If they are going to be sitting for say, over 2 weeks I push by hand a used cap on them to keep dust etc out.

 

Glasses were going in dish washer too. But, often that results in poor head. So usually hand wash and rinse in HOT water now.

 

I've posted a fair few pics here. My beer always has a great head. IMO proof that what I do works fine 1/6th of the effort.

[Oldbloke]

Just an add on to above.

I you want to go to the trouble of sanitising every stubby. Good luck, can do no harm. Horses for courses. But you need to consider the effort you putting to save perhaps 0.5% of your stubbies.

FV is a different matter.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

Tried the dishwasher many years ago when i was only bottling. Wasnt too impressed with the results to be honest. Mostly keg these days but i still bottle my high ABV belgian beers and long term sours. I basically do what @Aussiekraut does. Rinse well after use. Sodium percarbonate soak. When taking them out i decant half then put the finger over the opening and shake the bejesus out of it. After that i give them a roll in the starsan solution then let them drain before bottling. I still get a dodgy bottle every couple of batches. As others have said 1 in every 100 or so bottles i can live with.

[kmar92]

9 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

None of my beer glasses go anywhere the dishwasher, the sink full of dishes as all soap, detergent products simply kill your chances of obtaining a decent lasting head on your beer.

I remember that you were advocating the use of a detergent once before, some sort of super glass cleaner?

Detergent is fine to use to break down all the contaminants on beer glasses, you just need to make sure that the glass is rinsed well with hot water and then you will have a very good beer glass.

[ChairmanDrew]

I just rinse the bottles out after drinking, making sure there is no obvious sediment remaining.

Before bottling I always give them a rinse through with sanitizer solution. Years back when I first tried brewing I got complacent and started just giving them a quick rinse with boiled water. I had some pretty bad brews back then, wouldn't be surprised if the lack of proper sanitizing was to blame.

Edited July 15, 2023 by ChairmanDrew

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 hours ago, kmar92 said:

I remember that you were advocating the use of a detergent once before, some sort of super glass cleaner?

Detergent is fine to use to break down all the contaminants on beer glasses, you just need to make sure that the glass is rinsed well with hot water and then you will have a very good beer glass.

That was simply a product called "Beer Clean" it is American & my nephew works in the industry & was going to get some for me, but the freight outweighed the product cost.

I was only curious, but it never happened.

As far as you blokes that use detergent to clean your beer glasses, I say do what you want but it has NO place in my brewery/taproom. There are commercial products designed for this purpose.

Detergent is meant for your dishes as bleach is meant for your laundry.

I don't know of any breweries that use detergent for cleaning their equipment.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

You blokes really do like going on about the same stuff over and over. Must be hard for the ones retired and bored. 

All the different glass cleaning methods all require excessive rinsing to be rid of the cleaner in question. So at the end of the day the method used is not important for the same result. 

As far as I am aware most pubs use a type of dishwasher for their beer glasses.  And the cleaner they use is like what Classic was advocating but then didn't try after someone pointed out it contained detergent

I have been on holidays for a while and was busy for a while before that.

Just when I think the forum is getting stale a cleaning method debate surfaces again.

Back to bottles rinse well after use then do what works for you

[Oldbloke]

I wouldnt mind betting, when beer bottles were re-used about 10-20 years ago that they used detergent to clean them.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

12 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

I wouldnt mind betting, when beer bottles were re-used about 10-20 years ago that they used detergent to clean them.

Probably then rinsed and sanitised they should still be doing it today like over in Germany. The amount of energy used to clean break melt and remake is ridiculous. 

In this country most of what goes into recycling still makes landfill as government doesn't invest in propper Recycling plants. More common in regional areas.

[Oldbloke]

My simple suggestion is justvtry it.

 

If you have any obviously "grubby" stubby's or long necks, inspect them, then just put them in the dish washer, neck down.  (Use a rinse aid.) After its run the cycle, (cant check now but mine is about 60 minutes IIRC) have a look at them. You will be surprised at the result. 

[Oldbloke]

3 minutes ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

Probably then rinsed and sanitised they should still be doing it today like over in Germany. The amount of energy used to clean break melt and remake is ridiculous. 

In this country most of what goes into recycling still makes landfill as government doesn't invest in propper Recycling plants. More common in regional areas.

They would sanitise for sure. They are dealing with the public, so, possible litigation. That is not the case for home brewers. 

Agree, we should wash bottles for reuse too. Not crush and recycle or bury.

[Classic Brewing Co]

31 minutes ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

You blokes really do like going on about the same stuff over and over. Must be hard for the ones retired and bored. 

All the different glass cleaning methods all require excessive rinsing to be rid of the cleaner in question. So at the end of the day the method used is not important for the same result. 

As far as I am aware most pubs use a type of dishwasher for their beer glasses.  And the cleaner they use is like what Classic was advocating but then didn't try after someone pointed out it contained detergent

I have been on holidays for a while and was busy for a while before that.

Just when I think the forum is getting stale a cleaning method debate surfaces again.

Back to bottles rinse well after use then do what works for you

That is only because someone raised the question.

I really don't care what others cleaning/washing techniques are, I just merely offered my methods.

We are all different so as far as I am concerned anyone can do what they like. 

[Back Brewing]

59 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

I wouldnt mind betting, when beer bottles were re-used about 10-20 years ago that they used detergent to clean them.

Nope I first brewed about 35 years ago and we always used sodium pert and rinsed well never ever any detergent and back then there was no sanitisation product like there is now like stellasan 

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

31 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

That is only because someone raised the question.

I really don't care what others cleaning/washing techniques are, I just merely offered my methods.

We are all different so as far as I am concerned anyone can do what they like. 

So why are you trying to compare methods to breweries to discredit someone else's method? 

My point is when you drink a beer in a pub the glass has been through the dishwasher with  solution including detergent and well rinsed.

Do you enjoy the beers and glasses you drink in pubs or complain and tell them what you would do? 

You go beyond an opinion when you do what you do beating you're own drum. 

 

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

1 minute ago, Back Brewing said:

Nope I first brewed about 35 years ago and we always used sodium pert and rinsed well never ever any detergent and back then there was no sanitisation product like there is now like stellasan 

Exactly so times have changed and we are now told by the people who want to sell product that no rinse sanitiser is essential.

Apparently rinsing takes away the safety part of what you just cleaned.  But I'm sure as in old blokes experience failures were minimal and not worth the worry? 

[Kegory]

I've never seen no rinse sanitizer advertised anywhere. Coopers recommend sanitizing everything but they don't actually sell it.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

10 minutes ago, Kegory said:

I've never seen no rinse sanitizer advertised anywhere. Coopers recommend sanitizing everything but they don't actually sell it.

I don't think they do and alot of smaller companies that used to sell the expensive stuff in small doses have dropped off.

Since stellarsan and starsan have come up is not as many others around.

Despite what they say about no rinse and don't fear the foam. I believe excessive foam in FV or bottles and kegs damages the head on a brew. 

[Kegory]

I scoop out the excessive foam with my sanitized hand.

[Back Brewing]

1 hour ago, Kegory said:

I scoop out the excessive foam with my sanitized hand.

Hi fellow bomber supporter I wouldn't worry about the excessive foam get out what you can by draining and pour the wort in

I get as much as I can out when I keg then fill the keg I have foam flowing out the top of the keg and I find it doesn't interfere with anything

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Back Brewing