Pellicle problem

[Nevadan]

Hello... I'm still pretty new to brewing problems. I've only had a couple. I'm making a beer that requires adding fruit juice half-way through. I believe that what I currently have is a pellicle layer on top. The beer tastes fine right now. No taste problems at all. I've read comments from the masters who say that if the beer tastes fine, to go ahead and bottle it. But to avoid bottling the pellicle layer on top and don't mix the pellicle into the beer. So here's my question. How do I get the fruit juice in through that top pellicle layer without totally disturbing it? Could I put the fruit juice into a turkey baster and carefully poke it through the top pellicle layer and squirt it in? Or would that still create too much disturbance? Any thoughts, ideas or bona fide fixes would be awesome. And thank you all in advance. Happy New Year!

[Graculus]

Do you have another FV you can syphon it into?

That's what I did the other week when I thought I may have had nasties on the surface.

As it turned out I don't think I did.

Perhaps a pic of the wort? It could just be harmless.

Happy New Year.

[Malter White]

7 hours ago, Nevadan said:

Hello... I'm still pretty new to brewing problems. I've only had a couple. I'm making a beer that requires adding fruit juice half-way through. I believe that what I currently have is a pellicle layer on top. The beer tastes fine right now. No taste problems at all. I've read comments from the masters who say that if the beer tastes fine, to go ahead and bottle it. But to avoid bottling the pellicle layer on top and don't mix the pellicle into the beer. So here's my question. How do I get the fruit juice in through that top pellicle layer without totally disturbing it? Could I put the fruit juice into a turkey baster and carefully poke it through the top pellicle layer and squirt it in? Or would that still create too much disturbance? Any thoughts, ideas or bona fide fixes would be awesome. And thank you all in advance. Happy New Year!

Hi mate.
As @Graculus mentioned a photo could be helpful. I ditched a brew just this week that had floaties that were unfamiliar to me. I posted a photo after the event and some of the wiser heads on here suggested it was probably OK to brew and drink. The floaties looked too unappealing to my inexperienced eye so out it went.
I had a pellicle infected stout about a year ago. The floaties were a different look. With pellicle it had a skin-like appearance, like the top of boiled milk that's cooled down. I brewed and drank that one without trying to include any pellicle, however I'm sure some got in. The beer though tasted fine but I did have some tummy rumbling after drinking it. Not sick just a bit of trumpeting. I reckon a SANITISED turkey baster will work well for your recipe.
 

[Classic Brewing Co]

15 minutes ago, Malter White said:

Hi mate.
As @Graculus mentioned a photo could be helpful. I ditched a brew just this week that had floaties that were unfamiliar to me. I posted a photo after the event and some of the wiser heads on here suggested it was probably OK to brew and drink. The floaties looked too unappealing to my inexperienced eye so out it went.
I had a pellicle infected stout about a year ago. The floaties were a different look. With pellicle it had a skin-like appearance, like the top of boiled milk that's cooled down. I brewed and drank that one without trying to include any pellicle, however I'm sure some got in. The beer though tasted fine but I did have some tummy rumbling after drinking it. Not sick just a bit of trumpeting. I reckon a SANITISED turkey baster will work well for your recipe.
 

Fortunately, I have never had that problem but seen a few in my time, as Malter says a photo would help so that some of the learned Brew Masters could comment.

 

[Nevadan]

Thanks everyone. I'm having a hard time downloading these photos right now. Weather is nasty, it’s snowing, and I live in the sticks with bad internet already. I'll keep trying… I have no problem working to save the batch. I've only had a brewing problem one other time. It was an Irish Stout. I didn't know what pellicle was back then. The difference with that batch, was that it had a really bitter taste. Someone suggested that I skim it, re-boil it and re-yeast it for a bit. Don't know if that was the technically correct advice, but it worked. It ended up great. On this one, the scum seems to be similar to that first batch, but this beer actually tastes just fine. So obviously the problems are a little different. 

[Nevadan]

Without the flash

[Nevadan]

With the flash

[ozdevil]

16 minutes ago, Nevadan said:

With the flash

i can tell you that is not a pellicle ,  i would dare say that is the krausen  subsiding  and just yeast rafts  which is pretty normal

 

[Nevadan]

7 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

i can tell you that is not a pellicle ,  i would dare say that is the krausen  subsiding  and just yeast rafts  which is pretty normal

 

Ahhhhhh. Okay. Thank you!!! ... It's the first time I've seen it like this on a batch... I'm still pretty new to brewing (about a dozen batches) and am definitely here to learn. If it's still there on bottling day, is it fine to bottle? Or should I try to keep it out of the bottle?  I really do appreciate all of you chiming in to help me out. 

[Malter White]

54 minutes ago, Nevadan said:

With the flash

That looks very similar to the one I threw out and was told later by wiser heads that I shouldn't have. Live and learn I guess.
It won't hurt if it gets in the bottles  because it should settle as sediment but appearances do count for a bit so I'd sanitise a large spoon and scoop as much off as i could before bottling.

[Nevadan]

1 hour ago, Malter White said:

That looks very similar to the one I threw out and was told later by wiser heads that I shouldn't have. Live and learn I guess.
It won't hurt if it gets in the bottles  because it should settle as sediment but appearances do count for a bit so I'd sanitise a large spoon and scoop as much off as i could before bottling.

It's definitely why I came here. To learn everything I can and hopefully master this one day. I think i'll take your advice and scoop out what's left at the end. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 minutes ago, Nevadan said:

It's definitely why I came here. To learn everything I can and hopefully master this one day. I think i'll take your advice and scoop out what's left at the end. 

@Nevadan this is definitely the place to learn, if you have any questions post them & there will always be someone to assist you.

[Malter White]

@Nevadan I'm sure you will anyway but just remember to sanitise the spoon first.  

[ben 10]

pellicle

 

 

[Nevadan]

8 hours ago, Malter White said:

@Nevadan I'm sure you will anyway but just remember to sanitise the spoon first.  

I definitely will. I'm not very good at much, but I'm definitely an over-achiever on the sanitizing!  Haha. Thanks again and hope you had a great New Year's Eve. 

[Nevadan]

9 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

@Nevadan this is definitely the place to learn, if you have any questions post them & there will always be someone to assist you.

Thank you. It's greatly appreciated. Hope you had a great New Year's Eve. 

[Nevadan]

4 hours ago, beach_life said:

pellicle

 

 

Well, I learned that I need to learn the difference between pellicle and yeast rafts. Thanks and Happy New Year! 

[Nevadan]

I have one final question on this, and then I'll leave it alone. Because I thought I had a pellicle problem, I checked the gravity and taste of the beer way earlier than I normally do. It has already reached final gravity and the beer tastes like it should when it's done. The reason I bring it up, is because it's only 1/3 of the way through the recommended fermenting time. I've never checked taste and gravity this early before. I haven't even added the fruit juice yet, which is supposed to go in at the halfway point... Is this normal? Or should I add the fruit juice earlier/ bottle it earlier? Can the final gravity get lower than it should if I let it sit?   Thanks. 

[Aussiekraut]

10 minutes ago, Nevadan said:

I have one final question on this, and then I'll leave it alone. Because I thought I had a pellicle problem, I checked the gravity and taste of the beer way earlier than I normally do. It has already reached final gravity and the beer tastes like it should when it's done. The reason I bring it up, is because it's only 1/3 of the way through the recommended fermenting time. I've never checked taste and gravity this early before. I haven't even added the fruit juice yet, which is supposed to go in at the halfway point... Is this normal? Or should I add the fruit juice earlier/ bottle it earlier? Can the final gravity get lower than it should if I let it sit?   Thanks. 

Yeah, sometimes things go rather quickly, depending on the circumstances and the yeast used. I put a beer into the FV on Wednesday and yesterday it had reached FG. I'll check again tomorrow and then CC it until Saturday, then it is off to the keg  

[Classic Brewing Co]

13 minutes ago, Nevadan said:

I have one final question on this, and then I'll leave it alone. Because I thought I had a pellicle problem, I checked the gravity and taste of the beer way earlier than I normally do. It has already reached final gravity and the beer tastes like it should when it's done. The reason I bring it up, is because it's only 1/3 of the way through the recommended fermenting time. I've never checked taste and gravity this early before. I haven't even added the fruit juice yet, which is supposed to go in at the halfway point... Is this normal? Or should I add the fruit juice earlier/ bottle it earlier? Can the final gravity get lower than it should if I let it sit?   Thanks. 

It depends on how long your brew has been in the fermenter, I leave mine for 14 days which also helps clean the brew up also becomes clearer.

Others bottle/keg earlier but it sounds like you really need to leave it a bit longer to me.

[GregT5]

If you are adding fruit juice to your brew you are also introducing additional sugars. You will need to allow the yeast time to convert these sugars. I would check your SG readings for a few days after adding the fruit juice. 

[Nevadan]

59 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

Yeah, sometimes things go rather quickly, depending on the circumstances and the yeast used. I put a beer into the FV on Wednesday and yesterday it had reached FG. I'll check again tomorrow and then CC it until Saturday, then it is off to the keg  

I realized after the fact, that I added a little too much yeast. It called for two different amounts, depending on the alcohol level of the beer. I used the higher amount and shouldn't have. I hope your beer comes out great.

[Nevadan]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

It depends on how long your brew has been in the fermenter, I leave mine for 14 days which also helps clean the brew up also becomes clearer.

Others bottle/keg earlier but it sounds like you really need to leave it a bit longer to me.

It calls for 14 days. I put it in on the 27th and it was already at FG yesterday. I believe I added too much yeast. The directions list two different amounts, depending on the alcohol level of the beer you're brewing. I used the higher amount and should have used the lower. Maybe that's why this is happening. I'm gonna take your advice and just stick with the original plan and bottle after 14 days. 

[Nevadan]

31 minutes ago, GregT5 said:

If you are adding fruit juice to your brew you are also introducing additional sugars. You will need to allow the yeast time to convert these sugars. I would check your SG readings for a few days after adding the fruit juice. 

That's what I figured. I will definitely do that. Thanks! 

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Nevadan said:

I realized after the fact, that I added a little too much yeast. It called for two different amounts, depending on the alcohol level of the beer. I used the higher amount and shouldn't have. I hope your beer comes out great.

A little overpitch doesn't hurt and doesn't make too much of a difference. More important is the temperature at which you ferment and the type of yeast. Like Kveik can go through a batch in 3 days at 35C. Others take their sweet time at 18C. US-05 for example can easily take 36 hours before showing signs of activity and Lallemand Verdant takes about 12h. Mine will be fine, I have no doubt.

My routine for ales used to be brew on Sunday, leave in the FV until the Monday after, then take a reading and if it looks good, cold crash until Saturday, keg, repeat  I did take a reading halfway through but mainly to see how it goes. Lagers are a different story though.