Kveik, Sabro, or impatience = off citrus flavour?

[loafing_about]

I tried a few new things recently - my first kveik and my first use of Sabro hops and now I don't know if the brew needs more time to condition, I don't like the Sabro hops or the kveik yeast flavour, or potentially the batch is infected.

Brew was 21L based on 1 x Preachers Hefe wheat, 500g LDME, and a 30 g galaxy hop tea steep. Fermented at 35 degrees for 2 days then as activity slowed dry hopped with 50g Sabro for 3 days then cold crash for 3 days. Bulk prime and in the bottle for (just) 10 days. Two samples so far one around day 6 and day 10.

Both had some carbonation, but not quite fully done but the main flavour pushing through was like an over ripe lemon that sat in the fruit bowl for too long - a sweet sourness is my best description.  

I had read kveik could condition quickly so hence the really short conditioning time - I'll keep trying again in a few more weeks, but wondering if anyone has any thoughts if the brew is infected?

Thanks

 

[Tone boy]

1 minute ago, loafing_about said:

Both had some carbonation, but not quite fully done

The sweetness is probably from the sugar that hasn’t been eaten by the yeast yet. Not sure about the lemon - I have never used Sabro though.
What temp are you bottle conditioning at? Remember kveik likes it hot, so that applies to primary and secondary (bottle) fermentation.
Our mate over the ditch @BlackSands the Sandman uses kveik, and bottles as well. I reckon he might be able to offer some insight here…whatchya reckon Sand Man?

[Classic Brewing Co]

22 minutes ago, Tone boy said:

The sweetness is probably from the sugar that hasn’t been eaten by the yeast yet. Not sure about the lemon - I have never used Sabro though.
What temp are you bottle conditioning at? Remember kveik likes it hot, so that applies to primary and secondary (bottle) fermentation.
Our mate over the ditch @BlackSands the Sandman uses kveik, and bottles as well. I reckon he might be able to offer some insight here…whatchya reckon Sand Man?

That makes sense Toner, I have used Kveik in 4 recent brews, Pale Ale/Real Ale/Dark Ale/English Bitter - I haven't noticed any lemon flavour but fruity, citrus, piney all very nice, I think it was more pronounced in the Pale & Real Ales.

[Shamus O'Sean]

@loafing_about, in my view it could be the Sabro hops.  I used them in a Pale Ale.  Amongst their other attributes, I could pick up coconut, vanilla and mint.  Plus a creaminess.  These are unusual for a hop and some people do not like Sabro for those flavours. 

[loafing_about]

7 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

@loafing_about, in my view it could be the Sabro hops.  I used them in a Pale Ale.  Amongst their other attributes, I could pick up coconut, vanilla and mint.  Plus a creaminess.  These are unusual for a hop and some people do not like Sabro for those flavours. 

@Shamus O'Sean that’s my fear - I then used the remaining 50g sabro to dry hop a FWK NEIPA that’s just started cold crash

fingers crossed that both turn out

[Marty_G]

I have had that sweet sourness of lemon a couple of times. Unfortunately it has been in double batches where I have been I have persevered through the 1st leg but had to ditch the second both times.  It is not the sabro as it has no strong lemon notes.  Not 100% sure of the cause but discussing it with some of my professional brewer mates it is either a bacteria or  a wild yeast.  

From my experience the beer gets worse with age.   I would suggest giving your fermenter a good soak in PBW or any other sodium percarbonate based soaker. Take everything apart and make sure you do the tap and all washers as well. Give a good rinse, then sterilise with StartSan and reassemble.   You will find that the beer while drinkable now will not improve so you may want to ditch and start again. 

Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.  

 

https://learningtohomebrew.com/homebrew-beer-tastes-sour/

Edited April 8, 2022 by Marty_G

[loafing_about]

12 hours ago, Marty_G said:

I have had that sweet sourness of lemon a couple of times. Unfortunately it has been in double batches where I have been I have persevered through the 1st leg but had to ditch the second both times.  It is not the sabro as it has no strong lemon notes.  Not 100% sure of the cause but discussing it with some of my professional brewer mates it is either a bacteria or  a wild yeast.  

From my experience the beer gets worse with age.   I would suggest giving your fermenter a good soak in PBW or any other sodium percarbonate based soaker. Take everything apart and make sure you do the tap and all washers as well. Give a good rinse, then sterilise with StartSan and reassemble.   You will find that the beer while drinkable now will not improve so you may want to ditch and start again. 

Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.  

 

https://learningtohomebrew.com/homebrew-beer-tastes-sour/

Thanks Marty,  I'll leave the NEIPA through crashing then sample and if same notes are present won't bother with bottling, unless by some miracle the  kveik hefe has turned a big corner.

Cheers all

[Pints]

10 days is very young. The flavors will def mellow out and change over the next few weeks. Try it at 4 weeks 

[Marty_G]

4 hours ago, PintsAtMeLocal said:

10 days is very young. The flavors will def mellow out and change over the next few weeks. Try it at 4 weeks 

Not if it has fermented with a bacteria or wild yeast. Those buggers do not improve. The sourness is a giveaway that is has been contaminated.  But yes under normal circumstances they should continue to condition after packaging.  

[Popo the Reprobate]

Could just be the kveik. It can throw citrus esters. A bit different to your regular ale yeast if that's what you are comparing it to.

[ben 10]

Sabro is gross and should be banned

[Popo the Reprobate]

13 minutes ago, interceptor said:

Sabro is gross and should be banned

Wrong haha

[BlackSands]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:49 AM, Tone boy said:

Our mate over the ditch @BlackSands the Sandman uses kveik, and bottles as well. I reckon he might be able to offer some insight here…whatchya reckon Sand Man?

Yeah... been using kveik voss regularly for over two years now.  I'm not aware of any particular off-taste issues, and certainly not anything resembling "over-ripe lemon".  Apart from extremely slow bottle conditioning during our Winter months voss has served me very well.   

[loafing_about]

I've been trying a bottle of this every week or so which has been an interesting process. While it seemed to carbonate relatively quickly (less than 10 days) which I out down to the kveik,  it took a while to properly conditon. My fears of a lactic acid bacteria contamination have given way to the knowledge that Sabro hops are not in my top 5! The over ripe lemon flavour is giving way to a more rounded lemon creamy flavour with hints of the wheat hefe in the background. I've gone from pouring most of the bottle down the sink each week to now needing to be a certain mood and appreciating the different taste of Sabro and actually almost enjoying it. Super unlikely to buy Sabro again but did decide to bottle the NEIPA and just waiting for that to suitably condition.