My First Brew Diary - Advice and Comments Appreciated

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

For the "use of tape" aficionados, here is my pitiful effort.  Gets the job done though and comes off easily.  Please don't laugh.

Hi Shamus, Your use of Neoprene Stubby Holders is good, I have the opportunity to score rejects & imperfections from some of my printers as I sell Stubby Holders. which I use often.

Attached is a photo of what they look like before final production, please excuse any attempt to promote any business that may be visible.

5 or 3 mm neoprene, glued and zig zag stitched seams, built in base. Made to fit 375 ml stubby beers Stubby holder.. Lays flat, then wraps around bottle or can. Full colour 5 mm neoprene, glued and zig zag stitched seams, glued in base. 

[DeviantLogic]

14 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Nice spotting.  It is actually a glass of Dass Alto done my way.  A very nice beer.  Plenty of amber/caramel aroma, but with an unexpected balancing bitterness in the tasting.

Looks and sounds rather tasty! I might have to give it a go eventually.

This morning I checked on my brew and the activity seemed to have subsided quite considerably. Yesterday there was a constant churning noise and the foam was bubbling a lot. Today I couldn't hear anything and the activity on top was minimal. I seemed to recall that yeast is more active at higher temperatures, so I kicked up my temp controller setting from 19C to 20C and left it alone for a few hours. When I checked on it again the activity hadn't kicked up at all, so I thought I may as well take a gravity reading. The reading came up about 1.011-1.012. I read here that because the sample was at 20C I should add 0.0009 to the reading. So that means I am sitting around 1.012-1.013. I'm quite surprised that the reading is so close to my predicted FG after only 72 hours, is this normal? I've read that it's quite common to increase the temperature slightly  towards the end of fermentation to help clear up diacetyl - a so-called diacetyl rest; in light of this, is it advisable for me to leave the temperature setting at 20C to aid this process?

 

I had planned to bottle this up and chuck on my second brew next Saturday, now I'm wondering whether it's reasonable to do it a bit sooner. (I've read conflicting things about whether it's beneficial to leave a completed brew on the trub for an extended period.) Would it be wise to stick to the original plan, or is it likely I can move my timetable forward by a few days or so without altering the quality of my finished product?

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just finished 23l Coopers Australian Pale Ale with BE2, Morgans - Pride of Ringwood x 12g. SG was 1040. I have set the ST-1000 to 18 degrees.

Would anyone disagree on that Temp ?

Cheers

Phil

[Shamus O'Sean]

16 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

@Shamus O'Sean so how do u think taping that stubbie holder to side works out for you? I seen some people put probe in small cup of water i usually just wedge mine in between door and fv. As suggested by Otto these other ways are more economical on the fridge have you tried the water cup too or always on side?

Always on the side these days.  I just left it dangling in the freezer for the first few temperature controlled brews.  Quickly found out from this forum that taped to the side under a piece of stubby holder is better.

A problem with the cup of water is when fermentation kicks in, it generates its own heat.  Taped to the side, the probe picks up this temp increase, and can turn on the fridge/freezer to keep the brew cooler.  The cup of water trick would not pick up this temperature increase.

[Shamus O'Sean]

3 hours ago, DeviantLogic said:

So that means I am sitting around 1.012-1.013. I'm quite surprised that the reading is so close to my predicted FG after only 72 hours, is this normal?

It is not common to finish this quickly.  However, it is not unheard of and probably no reason for concern.  Specially if circumstances were ideal: fresh yeast, good temperature, aeration of the wort, and plenty of the right nutrients in the wort.  

It might have a bit more to go.  Leave it for a couple of days at 20°C and recheck the SG. It is also good to do a cold crash to help clear up the beer.  Whether both the SG settles and if you will have time for a cold crash, by Saturday, remains to be seen.  Might get it done though.

[DeviantLogic]

33 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

It is not common to finish this quickly.  However, it is not unheard of and probably no reason for concern.  Specially if circumstances were ideal: fresh yeast, good temperature, aeration of the wort, and plenty of the right nutrients in the wort.  

It might have a bit more to go.  Leave it for a couple of days at 20°C and recheck the SG. It is also good to do a cold crash to help clear up the beer.  Whether both the SG settles and if you will have time for a cold crash, by Saturday, remains to be seen.  Might get it done though.

To clarify, my original timescale was to be bottling this batch up on Saturday February 6th. Doing it by this coming Saturday would feel a little bit rushed, but in light of the low SG reading today I was wondering whether it might be fine to start cold crashing this weekend and bottle up midway through next week. I'm happy to stick to the original timescale if it's likely to improve the quality of my brew, but I'm not looking to hold things up if the beer isn't likely to benefit from the delay. Online there seems to be a lot of proponents of letting the brew sit on the trub for several weeks, but I'm not sure if they are mainly kegging their beers. I will be bottling this beer, and given that it will undergo secondary fermentation in the bottle, I'm a bit confused as to whether I really need to be letting it sit in the primary for so long in order to ensure the best quality. I'm under the impression you have ran this kit before; what do you think is a reasonable timeframe from pitching to bottling (assuming SG has settled and allowing a few days to cold crash)?

[jamiek86]

@DeviantLogic im a bit confused wasn't you going away for 2 weeks? 6th of Feb u wouldn't be gone for 2. If u raise the brew by a few degrees up to 20 like Shamus said and is definitely finished by this weekend by all means cold crash it for a week until 6th Feb and should be fine so you dont feel have rushed into it. 

If its finished by Thursday and dont mind a 2 day cold crash and bottle thats your choice to make

Edited January 26, 2021 by jamiek86

[DeviantLogic]

15 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

@DeviantLogic im a bit confused wasn't you going away for 2 weeks? 6th of Feb u wouldn't be gone for 2. If u raise the brew by a few degrees up to 20 like Shamus said and is definitely finished by this weekend by all means cold crash it for a week until 6th Feb and should be fine so you dont feel have rushed into it. 

If its finished by Thursday and dont mind a 2 day cold crash and bottle thats your choice to make

I think you've confused me with someone else, I'm not going away. 

It's looking very much like it will be finished fermenting by the weekend, given the low SG rating today. I was expecting it to take longer, and had initially planned to bottle on Saturday February 6th based on this expectation. Now what I'm wondering is whether I could get away with bottling earlier without adversely impacting the quality of my beer. In a nut shell, I'm not sure how long (if at all), I should let my brew sit on the trub after it hits FG and was hoping for some guidance.

[Shamus O'Sean]

4 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

Would anyone disagree on that Temp ?

Nope.

I just put down a brew inspired by the Chubby Cherub recipe.  Except I did not have Nelson Sauvin hops, so I subbed in Mosaic hops instead.  Come the hop boil and time to measure out my hops and do you think I could find the Chinook that I was sure I had.  Nope!  Luckily I have a few other hops.  Decided to use Centennial instead.  The full ingredients list was:

• 1.5kg Thomas Coopers Amber Malt Extract
• 1.5kg Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract
• 0.5kg Light Dry Malt
• 25g Centennial (Instead of Chinook) - 25 minute boil
• 25g Mosaic (Instead of Nelson Sauvin) - 15 minute boil
• 25g Cascade - 5 minute boil
• 5 minute flame out rest for the hops, then add cold water
• 7th generation US-05 starter

Mixed to 24L because was getting an OG of 1.048ish at 23L.  Finished up with an OG of 1.046.

Fermenting at 18°C

Edited January 26, 2021 by Shamus O'Sean

[Classic Brewing Co]

Hi Shamus,

Thanks for your reply re: Temp   I thought I would be safe with that. There are too many variations & misleading information out there.

Your recipe sounds great, hope you enjoy it.

Cheers

Phil

[jamiek86]

@DeviantLogic its like everything its a matter of opinion but if fg has been reached and you have ability to cold crash a few days after the yeast has done all the cleaning up then how long you cold crash for or how long you wait is up to the individual. I certainly wouldn't want to be leaving a beer on the yeast cake for a week after fg has been reached before bottling or cold crashing not saying it would make it go off? but old saying fresh is best a few days after fg is more than enough to either bottle or cc

[Shamus O'Sean]

25 minutes ago, DeviantLogic said:

It's looking very much like it will be finished fermenting by the weekend, given the low SG rating today. I was expecting it to take longer, and had initially planned to bottle on Saturday February 6th based on this expectation. Now what I'm wondering is whether I could get away with bottling earlier without adversely impacting the quality of my beer. In a nut shell, I'm not sure how long (if at all), I should let my brew sit on the trub after it hits FG and was hoping for some guidance.

Hi DL, I got my "this" Saturday and "next" Saturday mixed up.  Your initial plan was good.  Your quicker fermentation can bring things forward a bit.

I have done the English Bitter three times.  For comparison here are the stats of these brews.

• The first was done and bottled (pre-cold crash capability) in 8 days.  OG 1.033; FG 1.005 (reached 2 days before bottling)
• Second was done in 7 days and cold crashed for 10 (I do not remember why for so long).  OG 1.035; FG 1.006 (reached at least 1 day before cold crashing)
• Third was done in 8 days and cold crashed for 5 days.  OG 1.041; FG 1.012 (reached at least 2 days before cold crashing)

In your case, being around 1.012 suggests it is nearly done.  Cold crash after 2-3 days of stable SG's.  If you are are still at 1.012 Wednesday morning 27/01/21 and Thursday morning 28/01/21, start your cold crash Thursday night.  Bottle any time from Sunday night onward.

A good hint is to keep your hydrometer sample in the tube, beside your fermenter, and measure it each day.  It will mimic what is going on in your FV.  Once the "mini" FV's SG stabilises over 24 hours I take a new fresh sample from the main FV.  Check the reading, I find it is often the same, or within a point or two.  Check again in 24 hours.  If the same again, it is done and ready for cold crashing.

[DeviantLogic]

2 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Hi DL, I got my "this" Saturday and "next" Saturday mixed up.  Your initial plan was good.  Your quicker fermentation can bring things forward a bit.

I have done the English Bitter three times.  For comparison here are the stats of these brews.

• The first was done and bottled (pre-cold crash capability) in 8 days.  OG 1.033; FG 1.005 (reached 2 days before bottling)
• Second was done in 7 days and cold crashed for 10 (I do not remember why for so long).  OG 1.035; FG 1.006 (reached at least 1 day before cold crashing)
• Third was done in 8 days and cold crashed for 5 days.  OG 1.041; FG 1.012 (reached at least 2 days before cold crashing)

In your case, being around 1.012 suggests it is nearly done.  Cold crash after 2-3 days of stable SG's.  If you are are still at 1.012 Wednesday morning 27/01/21 and Thursday morning 28/01/21, start your cold crash Thursday night.  Bottle any time from Sunday night onward.

A good hint is to keep your hydrometer sample in the tube, beside your fermenter, and measure it each day.  It will mimic what is going on in your FV.  Once the "mini" FV's SG stabilises over 24 hours I take a new fresh sample from the main FV.  Check the reading, I find it is often the same, or within a point or two.  Check again in 24 hours.  If the same again, it is done and ready for cold crashing.

This is immensely helpful; I will do exactly as you suggest. Thanks a lot! 

I'm ahead of the game with the hydrometer sample, as todays sample is sitting in the brew fridge alongside my fermenter.

When you cold crash do you typically just drop the temperature all the way (I gather this would be down to 2-4C?), or do you drop it more gradually?

[Shamus O'Sean]

20 minutes ago, DeviantLogic said:

When you cold crash do you typically just drop the temperature all the way (I gather this would be down to 2-4C?), or do you drop it more gradually?

Nice work with the hydrometer sample.

I ferment in a freezer.  For ales, to give the freezer a bit of a break, I firstly set the temperature controller to 10°C.  Once it has got there and stabilised a bit (about 8 hours), then I set to 1°C.  Isinglass fining treatment 12-24 hours later.  Polyclar fining treatment 24 hours after the Isinglass.  Cold crash for at least 2 more days then keg and bottle any spare volume.

[DeviantLogic]

21 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Nice work with the hydrometer sample.

I ferment in a freezer.  For ales, to give the freezer a bit of a break, I firstly set the temperature controller to 10°C.  Once it has got there and stabilised a bit (about 8 hours), then I set to 1°C.  Isinglass fining treatment 12-24 hours later.  Polyclar fining treatment 24 hours after the Isinglass.  Cold crash for at least 2 more days then keg and bottle any spare volume.

Thanks for sharing your process with me! I think I will do something similar. I have a vegetarian drinking buddy so I might forgo the fining agents.

The gravity fell even further overnight. My reading today was sitting around 1.080-1.090 at 20C, so adjusting for temperature that is around 1.090-1.010 which is at or below the predicted FG. There's also a bit of sediment in the bottom of the hydrometer tube which I guess is a result of the additional fermentation which took place overnight. I'm not expecting it to drop any further; assuming it doesn't, I will start cold crashing on Friday or Saturday and aim to be bottling by Tuesday.

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

1 hour ago, DeviantLogic said:

1.080-1.090 at 20C, so adjusting for temperature that is around 1.090-1.010

I think you knew what you meant, but that reading is 1.008 - 1.009 and corrected to 1.009 - 1.010. 

The sediment in the bottom is mostly yeast starting to settle out in your mini FV.

[DeviantLogic]

Thanks for the correction, that is definitely what I meant.

[DeviantLogic]

Seems the hydrometer must have gotten stuck to the side of the tube yesterday, as the reading was slightly higher today. It was right on 1.010. I think I will start cold crashing tomorrow night or Saturday, assuming there isn't any more movement on the hydrometer overnight. I will be sure to double check the reading with a fresh sample from the FV before I start the cold crash.

[DeviantLogic]

Reading from the sample I had already taken was steady today around 1.010:

I took another sample from the FV and the reading was about the same:

I'm satisfied that this batch has finished fermenting, and has been for two days or so. With this in mind, I have set the temperature controller to 10C and will drop it to 1-2C right before I head to bed. The beer is looking rather cloudy, but I had a taste and it is quite good. Here is what it looks like in the glass currently:

Depending on how quickly the brew clears up I intend to bottle somewhere between Sunday and Tuesday (inclusive). I'm just going to stick with the carbonation drops this time around. I'm thinking one drop per 740mL bottle will probably be more true to style than using two, but I'd be interested to get some experienced opinions on that. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by DeviantLogic

[iBooz2]

24 minutes ago, DeviantLogic said:

Depending on how quickly the brew clears up I intend to bottle somewhere between Sunday and Tuesday (inclusive). I'm just going to stick with the carbonation drops this time around. I'm thinking one drop per 740mL bottle will probably be more true to style than using two, but I'd be interested to get some experienced opinions on that. 

DL, it will get clearer with the cold crash that you are doing so all good there.

But in my opinion: If you are bottling into plastic "the PET" bottles and you really want dead flat beer then go ahead and use only 1 carb drop per bottle. 

If bottling in glass 740 ml then 1 x carb drop probably ok.  I know it is supposed to be an English Bitter but I think 2 carb drops may be closer to that style in PET.  Others more experienced with EB brews may have a better opinion to go by @Shamus O'Sean.

This is probably the one time I would not recommend the "Muzzy Method" because you want it close to style for a first brew.

Edited January 29, 2021 by iBooz2

[Stickers]

37 minutes ago, DeviantLogic said:

The beer is looking rather cloudy, but I had a taste and it is quite good. Here is what it looks like in the glass currently:

Depending on how quickly the brew clears up I intend to bottle somewhere between Sunday and Tuesday (inclusive). I'm just going to stick with the carbonation drops this time around. I'm thinking one drop per 740mL bottle will probably be more true to style than using two, but I'd be interested to get some experienced opinions on that. 

that looks a billion times better than my first batch, well done.

i switched over to the @MUZZY method early on and i wouldn't go back to just carb drops now, for one it's a smidge cheaper and i found it did add an extra bit of 'life' to the overall taste. if you're thinking of just one drop i'd maybe try one sugar cube just for that slight bump,

[DeviantLogic]

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I will just go with two drops this time, as I definitely don't want flat beer!

Before bed last night I set my temperature controller to 2C. I left my hydrometer and test tube with a beer sample in the fridge, as I had been doing all week. I woke up this morning to find that the beer in the tube had completely frozen! (Pics below.) This isn't very scientific, but my FV doesn't feel as cool to touch as the tube. I can't see any floating bits of ice in the FV, but to be honest it is quite hard to see in there. Should I be worried about this? I'm really not sure what the best practice is here. I bumped the temperature controller setting to 4C, reasoning that this was less likely to cause freezing but should still be cold enough to drop some of the particulate matter. Was this the right approach, or should I stick things out at 2C? (It occurs to me that at close to freezing temperatures, what the hydo tube does may not be a very good indication of what's going on in the FV; but, I'm really not sure about this either way.)

Also, I'm wondering whether being exposed to freezing temperatures could have damaged by hydrometer, does anyone know about this?

 

[Pickles Jones]

12 minutes ago, DeviantLogic said:

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I will just go with two drops this time, as I definitely don't want flat beer!

Before bed last night I set my temperature controller to 2C. I left my hydrometer and test tube with a beer sample in the fridge, as I had been doing all week. I woke up this morning to find that the beer in the tube had completely frozen! (Pics below.) This isn't very scientific, but my FV doesn't feel as cool to touch as the tube. I can't see any floating bits of ice in the FV, but to be honest it is quite hard to see in there. Should I be worried about this? I'm really not sure what the best practice is here. I bumped the temperature controller setting to 4C, reasoning that this was less likely to cause freezing but should still be cold enough to drop some of the particulate matter. Was this the right approach, or should I stick things out at 2C? (It occurs to me that at close to freezing temperatures, what the hydo tube does may not be a very good indication of what's going on in the FV; but, I'm really not sure about this either way.)

Also, I'm wondering whether being exposed to freezing temperatures could have damaged by hydrometer, does anyone know about this?

 

You wont have damaged the hydrometer unless it split and this would be unlikely.

I am also concerned about freezing in the FV and as I don't check the Fermenting Fridge every day I do my CC at 4C and it seems to works well.

[DeviantLogic]

1 minute ago, Pickles Jones said:

You wont have damaged the hydrometer unless it split and this would be unlikely.

I am also concerned about freezing in the FV and as I don't check the Fermenting Fridge every day I do my CC at 4C and it seems to works well.

That's good to hear. How long do you typically CC at 4C?

[Pickles Jones]

Just now, DeviantLogic said:

That's good to hear. How long do you typically CC at 4C?

 

Just now, DeviantLogic said:

That's good to hear. How long do you typically CC at 4C?

I started to CC yesterday and will give it four days.