King Ruddager Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 How do you guys go about choosing when and, more importantly, what quantity of hops you add to a boil? I've seen the aroma/flavour/bitterness progression chart thing before, so I have some idea of timing, but how much is a lot? Our story begins with an Aussie Pale Ale tin and 80g of cascade pellets. I want to add them so there's a good balance of flavour and aroma and have even considered doing 4 grams a minute for 20 minutes just for the hell of it ... but probably not [wink] So yeah, help? Oh, these pellets have been in the freezer for two weeks now. That's ok, right? Re-sealed their bag but couldn't vacuum it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1525228310 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 How do you guys go about choosing when and, more importantly, what quantity of hops you add to a boil? I've seen the aroma/flavour/bitterness progression chart thing before, so I have some idea of timing, but how much is a lot? Our story begins with an Aussie Pale Ale tin and 80g of cascade pellets. I want to add them so there's a good balance of flavour and aroma and have even considered doing 4 grams a minute for 20 minutes just for the hell of it ... but probably not [wink] So yeah, help? Oh, these pellets have been in the freezer for two weeks now. That's ok, right? Re-sealed their bag but couldn't vacuum it ... The couple of times I experimented with my own hop schedule I did not achieve what I wanted and was a little dissatisfied. Nowadays I stick to recipes that have been tested and generally received the thumbs up. All Grain brewing takes up enough time and costs enough for the budget conscious like me that I want to limit the likelihood of brewing something that will hang around. Are you contemplating boiling the contents of the Pale Ale can together with your hop additions? Boiling the hopped malt will alter the flavor and aroma that Coopers designed. Cascade is a hop very suitable for dry hopping as I am sure you are aware and if you are looking for some fruity flavour then perhaps 40gms of those pellets dry hopped in the FV would be the go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi Ruddy! [happy] A good question. Hop schedules differ from beer style to beer style. They will also differ greatly from using pre-hopped kit tins, to extract & all grain brews. As you are using a pre-hopped kit tin, & one I am very familiar with, I would suggest you throw approx. 15gms of cascade @ 15mins, 10gms @ 10mins, 15gms @ 5mins, 15gms @ 2mins or flameout & the remaining 25gms dry hop @ 4-5 days into primary ferment. The end result will be quite nice. [biggrin] At the end of the day, how much hops you throw at a brew is an individual preference. As JohnM25 stated, a good start to understanding what levels of hopping you prefer, is to make a few tried & tested recipes of beer styles you like. Once you've tasted them, you can better gauge a level that you like & adjust future recipes accordingly. I hope that helps. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 As a few have said try a few ways and see how u go. Just before i pitched the yeast on a coopers pale ale where i added for first time Wheat extract 750 grams aprox didnt weigh then 500 grams light dry malt and looked at my leftover bag of Amarillo with about 40 to 50 grams left in it hard to say. They all went in for 5 min boil and 10 soak. Ive had more hops in than that before but not knowing the exact amount ill never duplicate it again [devil] Ill certainly try if its any good [biggrin] sometimes just do it [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hey Ruddager Earlier this year I scored (fell off the back of the truck) a wide selection of hops, many of which did not fit into the tried and true recipes. Therefore I have had to design quite a few of my own hop schedules. In fact I have thrown in both specialty grains and the hops without any reference to a tried and true recipe and I am having some great results. I use IanH's spreadsheet and keep track of the IBUs, ABV & EBC in another spreadsheet. My main reference here is using the kit as a base, with a kit it is a waste of time boiling for more than 20 minutes, if you want that kind of bitterness get a bigger kit. With the Coopers Pale Ale kit and Cascade boils going from 20 down you can't really go wrong. Lusty's suggested schedule should be spot on, some times you just have to hop it and see. I did my first home brew with hops before I had really tried craft beers apart from the odd Fat Yak and Moo Brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 As you are using a pre-hopped kit tin' date=' & one I am very familiar with, I would suggest you throw approx. 15gms of cascade @ 15mins, 10gms @ 10mins, 15gms @ 5mins, 15gms @ 2mins or flameout & the remaining 25gms dry hop @ 4-5 days into primary ferment.[/quote'] Okie dokie, let's see what we've got then ... So: - First addition at 15 gives a good amount of flavour - Second gives a lot more aroma with a lot less flavour - Third and fourth additions are almost all aroma - Dry hop also adds aroma, right? The big question is simply: why? Not because I'm questioning the logic, but rather because I'd like to understand the reasoning behind it. To me this looks as though it's balanced to aroma rather than flavour. Is this something to do with aroma being less prominent and therefor requiring a greater addition, or is it just better that way? PS. Don't worry, I won't be boiling the kit. I already understand that it's pre-hopped for bitterness. PPS. WTF? When I put Cooper's basic recipe (sans hops) into IanH's spreadsheet it comes out as too low in both bitterness and colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 For example (I should really learn to write e.g. [innocent] ) I am just trying this one . I am sure that no one else has done this before [bandit] and I am sampling it after 51/2 weeks in the bottle it\u2019s a spicy citrus concoction. And very drinkable [happy] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamianM2 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I think the interesting thing with doing your own hop additions is the changes is flavour over time. I think if you use hops in the style you are after and don't go completely silly then you can't really go wrong, especially with late additions. Do what you think and go from there. You never seem to get a definitive answer in home brew land, mostly because everyones methods and tastes are different so work out what works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi again DamianM2. - First addition at 15 gives a good amount of flavour - Second gives a lot more aroma with a lot less flavour - Third and fourth additions are almost all aroma - Dry hop also adds aroma, right? The 1st & 2nd additions certainly are flavour focused. What you have neglected to notice with your example of the chart, is that they both add a certain amount of bitterness at their introduction points into the boil, all be it on the minimal side. The 10 minute & below introductions (Including the Dry hop addition) into the boil are certainly more aroma focused with some flavour benefits. As you have already stated, you are using a kit tin as your base, so it already has hop, flavour & bitterness aspects to it. If you have brewed this kit tin as suggested in it's recommended method & liked that taste, then added bitterness is not what you are seeking. It's a flavour/aroma that you want, & the additions at 15mins & lower into the boil will reapt you the flavours you are looking for. [happy] If however, you are looking for some added bitterness with this mix, then throw a portion of approx. 15-20gms @ 30mins of this boil process. At the end of the day' date=' how much hops you throw at a brew is an individual preference.[/quote'] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Now there's a Fopar if I've ever seen one [w00t] That - First addition at 15 gives a good amount of flavour - Second gives a lot more aroma with a lot less flavour - Third and fourth additions are almost all aroma - Dry hop also adds aroma, right? when in actual fact he didn't write anything like that [lol] I think that maybe Ruddager may be able to file a lawsuit for plagiarism [innocent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I was waiting to see if anyone else noticed and posted regarding that. [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 All good advice so far. But it all comes down to experience and experimentation. Some times you have to do a brew a few times to get the additions right. And if you haven't used a particular hop before it is hard to know what to do with it. For example, a 30g dry hop with Cascade is much different to a 30g dry hop of Galaxy. Lusty, I read your hop schedule. I thought you were anti flame out AND dry hop additions [unsure] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hi Hairy. Lusty' date=' I read your hop schedule. I thought you were anti flame out AND dry hop additions[/quote'] Very perceptive of you...[lol] I did however say..."15gms @ 2mins or flameout ". I did use the flameout reference as to not exclude those that believe in the addition point. [tongue] Let's just say I'm warming to the idea but it is all subject to the cooling time after the addition is added & I'm betting the time frame between when that is finally added into the FV mix differs greatly from brewer to brewer/adopted technique to technique. [rightful] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I love Hops no doubt about it but here is a Aus pale ale recipe I made and I fookin love[love] [love] [love] 1 can pale ale 1kg of LDM 300g sugar 20g cascade 10g amarillo 10g chinook @ 15 mins 10g amarillo @ 5 mins dry hopped day 3 15g amarillo and 20g chinook. I was going to put more hops in but I was running low turned out quite nice smells amazing. I never boil the kits that will make them more bitter and as others stated it will change the flavour of the kit. If you want more bitterness 30 to 60 min boils are what you are looking for the longer the boil the more bitterness. Flavour additions at 15 mins are best in what I have found and also the 5 min addition which is mainly for aroma but does impart a bit of flavour. I also found Dry hopping does wonders for awesome aroma and some slight flavour. I have done a sparkling ale kit with a tonne more hops than this schedule but was bloody awesome. I have done flameout additions a couple of times and found in my personal opinion a waste of hops but that is my own personal feeling about flameout additions. I honestly would say once you know where you stand with your taste for hops to experiment and find where your tolerance is as even 15 min additions will add a little bitterness once I got the hop bug I just kept adding more and more hops to each brew and every brew is tasting better and better as I go but it does come to a point though where you do need to balance the malt hop ratio out but for small additions of hops you don't have to worry about that. Cheers 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 The 10 minute & below introductions (Including the Dry hop addition) into the boil are certainly more aroma focused with some flavour benefits. Please explain to us a 10 minute IPA? [bandit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 The 10 minute & below introductions (Including the Dry hop addition) into the boil are certainly more aroma focused with some flavour benefits. Please explain to us a 10 minute IPA? [bandit] I suggest you read the thread from the top down, then look to comment. That comment looks kind of isolated & unrelated to the topic at hand. [innocent] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 very much related, it's a hop schedule. The fact of the matter is you can do an intense flavour addition that is also an aroma and a bittering addition, it all depends on you and how much faffing about you want to do to a recipe and how much hops you have on hand and are willing to throw at a brew (and to a degree what equipment you use) For example there is also cube hopping where none at all are put into the boil and all the hops are placed into the cube... Hop schedules are fun and can vary from brews where you stand over them and continuously add hops in a dribble fashion to 5 mins intervals to 10 mins to all at the end. There are differences in result for all of them. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH1525226084 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 PPS. WTF? When I put Cooper's basic recipe (sans hops) into IanH's spreadsheet it comes out as too low in both bitterness and colour? What style beer have you selected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 What style beer have you selected? Australian pale ale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 ....and how much hops you have on hand and are willing to throw at a brew ... Nowhere near as many as you do Yob [biggrin]. BTW I started hop additions on my first malt extract only brew at 30 mins and had 125g of three varieties down to flame out for 33 IBU. Only prob was 3 hops was too much first up, too much going on in the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH1525226084 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Check this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 What style beer have you selected? Australian pale ale Hey Ruddager If you are boiling the hops to Anthony's schedule then you will need to do an 8 minute boil. In a small boil of 3 litres I get 26 IBU when 25 g of Cascade are added at 15 minutes and another 25g at 7 minutes. You can then Dry Hop the final 30g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Nice one Adam, it's good to see people researching styles.. not thats its any more of a guide and unless you are entering comps there is no hard and fast rules. Keep in mind that for an Australian Pale Ale style there is little to no hop aroma. At the risk of getting any backs up, Coopers Pale ale is a classic example of this style with a bittering addition only!! Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien E1 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Nice one Adam, it's good to see people researching styles.. not thats its any more of a guide and unless you are entering comps there is no hard and fast rules. Keep in mind that for an Australian Pale Ale style there is little to no hop aroma. At the risk of getting any backs up, Coopers Pale ale is a classic example of this style with a bittering addition only!! Yob Coopers Pale and Sparkling ales are also just about the only commercial examples of the style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I only realized the other day my Aus Pale ales and Sparkling ales aren't even them any more as such they are more American pale ales and IPA's [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.