Muddy Waters Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 [rightful] Allo Allo, what's going on here [rightful] This is going to get confusing but I 'aint changing - How about we call the other Muddy Ralph? Or maybe Dirty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 [rightful] Allo Allo' date=' what's going on here [rightful'] This is going to get confusing but I 'aint changing - How about we call the other Muddy Ralph? Or maybe Dirty? So now we are now voting on a name for the new Muddy [whistling. Well my offering is Murky [lol] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 For me the Draught kit was always the more durable of all the entry level kits. You wouldn't get as much fluctuation in flavour(s) if your temps were even 5-6\xb0C different from the last time you brewed it. My guess is the Lager tin is used in the DIY kit, because the term Lager is known globally & you can generally ask for & purchase a Lager in just about any country in the world. Ask for any of the other entry level types of style tins in the range & in some countries, they wouldn't even know what you are talking about. My 2 cents. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I do understand what you guys are saying, however, if these people were given good advice in regards to some excellent lager yeasts that perform really well at ambient temperatures in the high 20's they would not have these problems. Whitelabs WLP 810, San Fransisco Lager Yeast and Wyeast's 2112, Californian Lager Yeast work unbelievable well at those high temperatures and the taste test is spot on for a lager. I don't know if the problem is purely in the yeast, sure, it won't make a nice brew when it's fermented in the high 20s, but a lot of people add a kilo of dextrose or brew enhancers or whatever to it, which is also a cause of bad tasting brews. I think if the Lager tin was brewed at 18-20C, even 22-23C, with a kilo of dry malt, it would make a much nicer first brew than using dex or BEs. And it's not like it's any more difficult to throw a kilo of malt in as a kilo of any other powder. Not sure why they don't just put that in the recipe on the side of the tin to be honest. [whistling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hi Otto Man. [happy] Some of you guys do make me laugh sometimes, especially when it comes to "selling". Let's take a quick look at a first time brewer who has the DIY kit (most of us that have brewed for a while have read these over & over many times!). . . They will most likely... Contaminate through continually opening the lid on the FV believing they are monitoring the brew properly, or brew at too higher temperature. There are certainly other mistakes they will make that will impact negatively on their first brew, but these seem to be the most common. So they bottle their first brew & are not satisfied with what they taste after a couple of weeks once secondary fermentation completes a basic cycle. So what do 75%+ of them do? They start to ask questions as to why they failed & bit by bit & brew by brew they improve through better technique, better ingredients & better knowledge. Companies like Coopers know this. [biggrin] Extra sales are a guarantee. [innocent] Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***** Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Some of you guys do make me laugh sometimes, especially when it comes to "selling". Let's take a quick look at a first time brewer who has the DIY kit (most of us that have brewed for a while have read these over & over many times!). . . They will most likely... Contaminate through continually opening the lid on the FV believing they are monitoring the brew properly, or brew at too higher temperature. There are certainly other mistakes they will make that will impact negatively on their first brew, but these seem to be the most common. So they bottle their first brew & are not satisfied with what they taste after a couple of weeks once secondary fermentation completes a basic cycle. So what do 75%+ of them do? They start to ask questions as to why they failed & bit by bit & brew by brew they improve through better technique, better ingredients & better knowledge. Companies like Coopers know this. [biggrin] Extra sales are a guarantee. [innocent] Anthony. I am glad that you are not selling anything Anthony, or if you are let me know and I will make sure that I don't buy from you. I posit that what companies do is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. In the case at hand you give the people what they want. It may come as a big surprise to many here but there are still a multitude of people just brewing Kit and Kilo and some of them even use Beer Enhancers. So what do the Coopers Marketing people do, they find out what the majority of home brewers want then they package it accordingly. Not so that it stuffs up and people start to ask questions, but so that it works and people buy more. Its marketing 101. It just happens that marketing research has determined that along with all the other bits in the kit the BE1 and Lager kit have the best chance of ensuring return business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hi Scott. I am glad that you are not selling anything Anthony' date=' or if you are let me know and I will make sure that I don't buy from you.[/quote'] I'm sorry to tell you that I do sell for a living & have done for the last 13 yrs or so in the liquor industry. Don't confuse marketing strategies with honest advice. My reputation is my livelihood, so I don't give bad or altered advice. I posit that what companies do is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. I admire your conviction towards quality for a consumer, & agree with your standpoint. However, for an entry level brewer, if one of the top of the range Thomas Coopers beer kit tins were used in the DIY kit what would be the outcome for the first time brewer? Would it be any different? The answer is exactly the same as is the case now with the lager tin, a failed brew in most cases. So when they screw up for the same reasons as I outlined earlier, where do they go from there? They certainly can't go up in quality of kit tin. Add to that, they have made a brew that failed and was more expensive to buy due to the quality of ingredients contained in the TC range. Marketing strategy = FAIL. So what do the Coopers Marketing people do' date=' they find out what the majority of home brewers want then they package it accordingly. Not so that it stuffs up and people start to ask questions, but so that it works and people buy more.[/quote'] Scottie, the DIY kit is aimed at people with little to no experience in home brewing, not those that do have experience. Sorry that ideal is NOT good marketing 101 in this scenario. It just happens that marketing research has determined that along with all the other bits in the kit the BE1 and Lager kit have the best chance of ensuring return business. There's your marketing 101. [wink] Please don't take what I have said in a harsh or personal tone, as it is not meant that way. What I have said is true & honest based on 13 years of first hand experience in this field. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Ooh.. this thread is turning into pistols at noon... Muddy Vs MuddyWaters Beerlust Vs Scottie The winner from each goes on to the final! *sits back and reaches for the popcorn* By the way, I have to agree with Scottie on this and wonder where you learned your dodgy 'marketing 101'. And I for one welcome our new Muddy overlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 [roll] Muddy Vs Murky!! (BTW Welcome to the forum Murky [biggrin] ) Also, Have to agree with Scottie but I am already committed to a stoush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I'm a bit on the fence here. I tend to agree more with Scottie however. I can see where you're coming from Lusty with providing a dodgy first kit recipe so that people will ask questions and try to make better brews in the future, but most first time brewers would probably find the lager + BE1 or whatever to not taste too bad, and will buy more kits anyway. If later on they decide to branch out, that's up to them. After all, they're probably used to megaswill and have no idea what good beer tastes like - yet.[lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I will be cheering on Murky (sorry Muddy but I like an underdog). And also Scottie because he made more sense [biggrin] I would say the majority of home brewers started because they wanted to make cheap beer. I know people that still brew with the lager kit and BE1 or brewing sugar for every brew because thats what they like. Most people on here like their fancy-pants craft beer (myself included) but the reality is that 80-90% of the beer market is made up of sales from the big boys (XXXX Gold, VB, Tooheys New, Carlton Draught etc). That is what the majority of the public want and that is what Coopers give them in the DIY kit. This thread pops up every 6 months or so and PB2 stated that the Lager kit was their biggest seller. It isn't dodgy marketing; it is giving the public what they want. Now, when is this Murky Muddy vs Muddy Waters stoush commencing? [devil] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I bought my first complete Coopers brewing kit with the lager can back in August. The lager fermented at around 20 degrees and turned out to very drinkable indeed. the result is that i have now brewed 20 batches since. Thats another 20 cans plus a fair bit of BE 1 and 2 going into Coopers coffers. Had i purchased my kit last month i would have fermented the lager in the mid to high 20's and the resulting beer would have ended up down the drain, which is exactly what happened to the lager i did brew last month. If i didnt know what i know now, i wouldnt waste more of my time and money brewing. How many others will get a kit for Chrissy, brew lager at high temperatures and say homebrew is crap and never try again. for my 2 bobs worth, replace it with pale ale[happy] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Welcome aboard Muddy (this is going to get confusing [crying] ) 1025 seems a bit high for 5 days fermenting at 20 degrees. But before doing anything to your brew you should make sure you are using your hydrometer correctly. The reading last night day 6 was 1022 and the hydrometer checked properly. Taste was pretty good and there is still activity going on in the FV. Do you discard the first runnings in the tube and then refill? The first 1/3 or 1/2 a tube will have sediment from the tap which will lead to a higher false reading. Tip this out, withdraw some more and measure that. Also, make sure you de-gas the sample. Let it sit for a while or tip the liquid back and forth between two cups. Too many bubbles can lead to the hydrometer sitting higher in the liquid. Let us know if you get the same reading today. Yeah I do discard the first runnings from the tube and I ensure the sample is degassed by the book. It's definitely improving and will let it go a few more days. The taste and smell was very larger'ish and not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 A newbie here with a Lager in the FV at present. Day 6 of my first brew. .. My fingers are crossed. Muddy Well at first sight I thought what's Muddy talking about. Then I checked the post number and then thought how did Muddy do that. Then the penny dropped....[innocent] . Welcome to the forum new Muddy, as with many others I reckon you think this Lager is your best brew ever. The good news is that almost every brew from here on in will be your best brew ever. You are in the right place to develop your brewing skills. This forum is big enough for two Muddies [unsure] edit: Oh yeah listen to Hairy's advice re your SG reading. Well I'm 6' and 90kgs..not sure if I'm big enough to fill Muddy Waters shoes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 This forum is big enough for two Muddies I think it is a succession plan put in place by Coopers. Big Muddy isn't go to be around forever and he will need an apprentice to fill the void. Good luck Muddys! No plans there Hairy but thanks for the advice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 [rightful] Allo Allo' date=' what's going on here [rightful'] This is going to get confusing but I 'aint changing - How about we call the other Muddy Ralph? Or maybe Dirty? As a member of the constabulary, I think I should be the one saying Allo Allo Allo...but in all seriousness, if you need me to change Username to avoid being confused with a beer demi god, I'm happy to do so Muddy. (But I have too have been a Muddy Waters for 43 years) [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 [rightful] Allo Allo' date=' what's going on here [rightful'] This is going to get confusing but I 'aint changing - How about we call the other Muddy Ralph? Or maybe Dirty? So now we are now voting on a name for the new Muddy [whistling. Well my offering is Murky [lol] . In all seriousness, I can also be a Muds-that is a shortened nickname my beer drinking mates often use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 [rightful] Allo Allo' date=' what's going on here [rightful'] This is going to get confusing but I 'aint changing - How about we call the other Muddy Ralph? Or maybe Dirty? So now we are now voting on a name for the new Muddy [whistling. Well my offering is Murky [lol] . In all seriousness, I can also be a Muds-that is a shortened nickname my beer drinking mates often use... Oh, Murky is my younger brother.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Ooh.. this thread is turning into pistols at noon... Muddy Vs MuddyWaters Beerlust Vs Scottie The winner from each goes on to the final! *sits back and reaches for the popcorn* By the way, I have to agree with Scottie on this and wonder where you learned your dodgy 'marketing 101'. And I for one welcome our new Muddy overlord. Well if it's pistols Lord Eoin, I'm happy to bring my Smith & Wesson 40cal semi auto to the party...[rightful] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEoin Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Escellent! Another gun toting, beer swiller. New Muddy, I'm with you on this one. Old Muddy, I took the liberty of packing your bags and leaving them by the door! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I got my popcorn and chips and am ringside for the action... My money is on Muddy [cool] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Eh!L Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I'm with Bill. My money's on Muddy![sideways] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH1525226084 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I see I have missed some fun and games! There are probably 20 regular people on here, and if we were Coopers market I don't think they'd be going so well. So there is obvioulsy a helluvalotof people out there just making beer cos they can. And not to sound too high and mighty, but there are a helluvalotof people who don't know this sort of forum exists, or how to use it. I propose old Muddy stays as muddy and we refer to new muddy as "Mudster" [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 If I am to pipe up with an opinion then... Muddy and Muddy Waters are 2 different user names and nobody should be told to change their name if they don't want to or if it is not in the terms & conditions of registration. Anyhow... I have finished my bag of popcorn and am getting bored waiting for the action.... bring on the ring girls I says [love] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelD16 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 so general consensus seems that the lager kit is here to stay and i probly shouldn't give it such a hard time, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.