Kegging equipment?

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, glivo said:

As soon as I plugged it in, I could feel the warmth on the side walls.  That's the gas hole and tap hole on the side walls.

Looks OK.

[Back Brewing]

1 hour ago, glivo said:

I'm chomping at the bit to get some beer in a keg and try it out.  I'll probably start with Shamus' recommendation of 4 m and just trim it off if I think it's a bit weak on flow.  I don't have flow control devices yet, and I may find it unnecessary.  To be honest, I'm not that fussy.

As a guide if your using 4mm ID set your pressure at 10psi start with your length of beer line and look at pouring water at 2c to 3c into a glass from the keg 300mil in 10 seconds is around what your looking for the longer the line the slower the pour the shorter the line the faster the pour

If it's too slow just start shortening the line by 15 to 20 mm at a time until your happy ALSO don't forget if your psi is too low as the keg empties the head pressure is not enough to keep equilibrium so the beer at some stage goes flat as you can see it's trial and error to get it all balanced.

Edited May 3 by Back Brewing

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

10 hours ago, Back Brewing said:

As a guide if your using 4mm ID set your pressure at 10psi start with your length of beer line and look at pouring water at 2c to 3c into a glass from the keg 300mil in 10 seconds is around what your looking for the longer the line the slower the pour the shorter the line the faster the pour

If it's too slow just start shortening the line by 15 to 20 mm at a time until your happy ALSO don't forget if your psi is too low as the keg empties the head pressure is not enough to keep equilibrium so the beer at some stage goes flat as you can see it's trial and error to get it all balanced.

I always found these guides a bit out for my personal liking. Even 12 psi was never enough to serve a beer the way I like it. 

Yes it pours a bit slower to the recommended time but always tastes flat. Even gassing the beer at a higher psi and dropping to 12 was a pain for me. As a standard I now just gas and serve on 14 to 15 psi all the time.

The first pour might be a bit foamy and have to settle a bit but its gassed the way I like it.

@glivo will find what works for him I'm sure with trial and error.

I know some people get a bit technical with line and length etc. And if that works for them great. If I have to wait for the first beer to settle a little or if not pouring regular enough for the tap to stay cold and get a bit of foam so be it.

I do always have the problem with the last few liters going a little flat because I start turning the gas off towards the end. 

I can't stand wasting gas filling all that empty keg space with minimal beer in the bottom. So my sacrifice is the last few liters of beer to be underwhelming over a whole keg at to little serving pressure. 

 

[glivo]

1 hour ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

I always found these guides a bit out for my personal liking. Even 12 psi was never enough to serve a beer the way I like it. 

Yes it pours a bit slower to the recommended time but always tastes flat. Even gassing the beer at a higher psi and dropping to 12 was a pain for me. As a standard I now just gas and serve on 14 to 15 psi all the time.

The first pour might be a bit foamy and have to settle a bit but its gassed the way I like it.

@glivo will find what works for him I'm sure with trial and error.

I know some people get a bit technical with line and length etc. And if that works for them great. If I have to wait for the first beer to settle a little or if not pouring regular enough for the tap to stay cold and get a bit of foam so be it.

I do always have the problem with the last few liters going a little flat because I start turning the gas off towards the end. 

I can't stand wasting gas filling all that empty keg space with minimal beer in the bottom. So, my sacrifice is the last few liters of beer to be underwhelming over a whole keg at to little serving pressure. 

 

@Uhtred Of Beddanburg, I'm sure I'll work it out soon enough, but it is confusing to a beginning kegger when there are so many sources of contradictory, or at least varying, advice.  Dispensing pressure ranges from 6-8 psi to 12-15 psi and anywhere in between. Use 4mm ID line, no use 5mm.  Use 2.5m line length, no use 4m.  For now, I'll work with what I've got and see how it goes.

I understand where you're coming from with the gas in the near empty keg, but isn't that just part of the equation?  At the beginning you have hardly any CO2 head space and it gradually increases, so you have an average CO2 consumption over the duration of the keg.  You've now got me thinking about the remaining water in the test keg for my wife's Soda Water.  Have you done the maths to see how much gas you save by letting your end beer go a bit flat?  I'd be interested to know at what point you're better off dumping, if at all.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

15 minutes ago, glivo said:

@Uhtred Of Beddanburg, I'm sure I'll work it out soon enough, but it is confusing to a beginning kegger when there are so many sources of contradictory, or at least varying, advice.  Dispensing pressure ranges from 6-8 psi to 12-15 psi and anywhere in between. Use 4mm ID line, no use 5mm.  Use 2.5m line length, no use 4m.  For now, I'll work with what I've got and see how it goes.

I understand where you're coming from with the gas in the near empty keg, but isn't that just part of the equation?  At the beginning you have hardly any CO2 head space and it gradually increases, so you have an average CO2 consumption over the duration of the keg.  You've now got me thinking about the remaining water in the test keg for my wife's Soda Water.  Have you done the maths to see how much gas you save by letting your end beer go a bit flat?  I'd be interested to know at what point you're better off dumping, if at all.

No mate no data as it is compressed in the bottle and I get your point regards averaging out. I lo longer have a close source to swap or refill my bottles. Just a bit of a tight A in regards to leaving the gas on towards the end.

I allow enough pressure to push the beer through the lines that's it. But because I already use a higher pressure than most people to begin with its still fine. Under  carbed compared to what I normally serve but not completely flat.

[Back Brewing]

I find no matter what psi that first pour is  always frothy if your serving soda water and beer on one regulator the beer will be all froth because of 30psi you will need a manifold or the quick connects you linked to

[glivo]

Already have the manifold and secondary regulators.

[glivo]

I filled my first 2 kegs today after convincing my mate he needed to move to kegging instead of bottling.  Joliet Jake and Elwood now have beer inside under 15 psi of CO2 pressure.  His 2 FVs were ready to go, and I've managed to convince him this is the way to move forward, avoiding all the hassle of bottles.  He agreed after unloading 6 milk crates from his van and loading 9 back in.  It helped that I was able to buy him a working Kegorator with a 6.8 kg gas bottle, regulator, tap and 4 kegs for $150.00, after showing him how it works on my new installation.  It's another bargain and we pick it up soon, so his beer will be already carbonated.  I've just given him 130 longnecks today so he should be able to let the kegs sit for a few days.

I can't wait for my 60 litre FV to be ready to keg and get my own going and I can't believe I didn't do this 20 years ago.  What was I thinking?

Edited May 5 by glivo

[Aussiekraut]

11 hours ago, glivo said:

I filled my first 2 kegs today after convincing my mate he needed to move to kegging instead of bottling.  Joliet Jake and Elwood now have beer inside under 15 psi of CO2 pressure.  His 2 FVs were ready to go, and I've managed to convince him this is the way to move forward, avoiding all the hassle of bottles.  He agreed after unloading 6 milk crates from his van and loading 9 back in.  It helped that I was able to buy him a working Kegorator with a 6.8 kg gas bottle, regulator, tap and 4 kegs for $150.00, after showing him how it works on my new installation.  It's another bargain and we pick it up soon, so his beer will be already carbonated.  I've just given him 130 longnecks today so he should be able to let the kegs sit for a few days.

I can't wait for my 60 litre FV to be ready to keg and get my own going and I can't believe I didn't do this 20 years ago.  What was I thinking?

The kegs are named after the Blues Brothers?

[glivo]

Yep.  When I was cleaning the kegs up I noticed that one was stamped as coming from Joliet, Illinois (Joyce Beverages Inc) and there is a back story involving my mate for whom I made the beer now in it.  I've been making and bottling beer for him for about 15 months now after he suffered a pretty serious stroke a couple of years ago.

One Saturday morning back in 1978, my mother let this mate into our house and then my bedroom while I was still asleep.  He had come directly from the record shop, having just bought the newly released LP, Briefcase Full of Blues which he put on my turntable and then blasted me awake with Rubber Biscuit.  He used to do this fairly often when he'd just bought a new record.  Another memorable one was Chicken Train by Lynard Skynard.  Anyway when I kegged this beer for him, I told him I'd named the kegs Joliet Jake and Elwood.  Just a bit of fun with a mate of 50 years.

[iBooz2]

On 4/26/2024 at 12:28 PM, glivo said:

The bottoms of the kegs are a bit stained, so I currently have them soaking in Aldi Oxy. I might need some PBW. 

@glivo, I am a bit late to the party but if the kegs are stained inside and cleaner does not cut the mustard then grab yourself a packet of cheap citric acid from the supermarket and tip half the pack into each keg and 1/2 to 3/4 fill with hot tap water.  Seal up and give them a good shake then leave for a couple of days.  Shake them every now and then to slosh the mix around.  After that they should be nice and shiny on the insides again.  A good rinse out and they are ready to be sanitised.

[glivo]

15 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@glivo, I am a bit late to the party but if the kegs are stained inside and cleaner does not cut the mustard then grab yourself a packet of cheap citric acid from the supermarket and tip half the pack into each keg and 1/2 to 3/4 fill with hot tap water.  Seal up and give them a good shake then leave for a couple of days.  Shake them every now and then to slosh the mix around.  After that they should be nice and shiny on the insides again.  A good rinse out and they are ready to be sanitised.

Thanks @iBooz2.  I'll keep that in mind. The di-san oxy cleaned them up.

A quick question. Has anybody come across a corni keg that does not use the short tube for the gas input post?  One of the kegs I have appears to not use it. The post and poppit screw on the same but no tube and O-ring.  The hole in the male thread spigot is smaller diameter and won't accept a tube.  It doesn't appear to leak even though there is no effective seal protecting the threaded connection point.

Edited May 6 by glivo

[Back Brewing]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

Thanks @iBooz2.  I'll keep that in mind. The di-san oxy cleaned them up.

A quick question. Has anybody come across a corni keg that does not use the short tube for the gas input post?  One of the kegs I have appears to not use it. The post and poppit screw on the same but no tube and O-ring.  The hole in the male thread spigot is smaller diameter and won't accept a tube.  It doesn't appear to leak even though there is no effective seal protecting the threaded connection point.

Are you sure there is not one there? If no O ring there is no seal turn the keg upside down and have a good look with a torch at the inlet nothing saying there has to be a dip tube but it has to have an O ring

Edited May 7 by Back Brewing

[glivo]

3 hours ago, Back Brewing said:

Are you sure there is not one there? If no O ring there is no seal turn the keg upside down and have a good look with a torch at the inlet nothing saying there has to be a dip tube but it has to have an O ring

I tried to put one from another keg in the hole and it would fit.  The hole was too small.  I put my finger up underneath to see if I would push it up, if there was one in there, but there wasn't.  I've re-assembled the keg as it was, filled it and gassed it.  No leaks and holding pressure.  I'll need to have a closer look once it's empty again.   If there is a tube and O-ring in it, someone has cut it off flush with the inside top of the keg.

[glivo]

I now have 5 kegs filled with beer.  Two are my mates Brown Ale and 3 are Cooper's Lager kit beer from the 60 litre FV.  We pick up my mates kegerator tomorrow and mine is already operational but I haven't poured a beer yet.  I have a few questions still, even though I've been watching loads of videos and reading up.

Forced carbonation!  Is any carbonation achieved by applying pressurised CO2 considered "forced carbonation"? There are videos showing rapid carbonation through repetitive agitation of chilled kegs under CO2 pressure, and some people mention up to 2 weeks just sitting under pressure, all under the banner of forced carbonation.

Once the newly filled keg is under CO2 pressure, can you just remove the bottle gas supply and store them?  Do you need to fully carbonate them (rapid or 2 weeks) before storage?  My kegs are holding the initial pressure charge after purging, but is that enough CO2 to then just put them aside for future use?  If so, what needs to be done when tapping the keg? Does it need more carbonation first?

I recall reading here that @Shamus O'Sean uses some natural carbonation by adding sugar to the keg and I saw it mentioned in a video as well.  I've tried this approach on one keg of the lager by adding 150g of dextrose.  I'll monitor its pressure daily and burp it if necessary.

 

Edited May 7 by glivo

[Classic Brewing Co]

24 minutes ago, glivo said:

I now have 5 kegs filled with beer.  Two are my mates Brown Ale and 3 are Cooper's Lager kit beer from the 60 litre FV.  We pick up my mates kegerator tomorrow and mine is already operational but I haven't poured a beer yet.  I have a few questions still, even though I've been watching loads of videos and reading up.

Forced carbonation!  Is any carbonation achieved by applying pressurised CO2 considered "forced carbonation"? There are videos showing rapid carbonation through repetitive agitation of chilled kegs under CO2 pressure, and some people mention up to 2 weeks just sitting under pressure, all under the banner of forced carbonation.

Once the newly filled keg is under CO2 pressure, can you just remove the bottle gas supply and store them?  Do you need to fully carbonate them (rapid or 2 weeks) before storage?  My kegs are holding the initial pressure charge after purging, but is that enough CO2 to then just put them aside for future use?  If so, what needs to be done when tapping the keg? Does it need more carbonation first?

I recall reading here that @Shamus O'Sean uses some natural carbonation by adding sugar to the keg and I saw it mentioned in a video as well.  I've tried this approach on one keg of the lager by adding 150g of dextrose.  I'll monitor its pressure daily and burp it if necessary.

 

Different blokes all have various methods of fast carbonation, I have tried a few but I find 24-36 hours @ 20psi works for me, I usually cut it to about 10psi & leave it for a few more days, obviously sneaking a tester in now again.

It continues to improve each day.

Regarding the storage of full kegs, I have done it for 2 weeks waiting for fridge space, but I am no expert on the length of time that is safe.

[iBooz2]

@glivo, My fast carb routine is this: 

• Dis-connect any kegs that are already at serving pressure.
• Chill the keg or kegs you want to fast carb to 2 C before hand if possible, this is easy if your beer has been cold crashed before kegging.
• Obviously, connect the gas inputs to the keg or kegs you want to fast carb.
• Wind up the regulator to 40 p.s.i and leave for 18 hours.
• After 18 hours, simply disconnect the gas input/s and leave those kegs alone for 24 hrs or so, do not burp them as the pressure in their head space will reduce naturally back down to serving pressure as the CO2 is absorbed by the beer.
• Wind back the regulator to serving pressure, for me that is 15 p.s.i. as I run a six way manifold off mine.
• Re-connect any kegs already at serving pressure so you can drink those whilst waiting on the new ones to be ready.
• After the 24 hours re-connect the gas input at you chosen serving pressure and leave them for as long as possible, try a pour every couple of days to see if the above routine suits your beers and your carbonation tastes.  Generally you can pour a beer straight away but with time they improve even more.

As for storing full kegs, they are better stored cold and at full carbonation levels.  If you cannot do this then you may have to top up a stored keg with CO2 regularly to keep the beer carbonated if its cold stored.  Note as a cold pre-carbed keg warms up (if you are storing them say in your garage) then the pressure will become higher as the gas comes back out of the warming beer.  Again don't burp it, just chill it back down and over a few days that extra "warm/hot" CO2 pressure will be re-absorbed back into your beer and you will be good to go.

 

Edited May 8 by iBooz2

[glivo]

Great stuff.  I don't have a cool room so it will be ok over winter but storing filled kegs may be more tricky during summer.  I like making the 60 litre FV as it fills exactly 3 kegs but my fridge only holds 2.

[iBooz2]

33 minutes ago, glivo said:

Great stuff.  I don't have a cool room so it will be ok over winter but storing filled kegs may be more tricky during summer.  I like making the 60 litre FV as it fills exactly 3 kegs but my fridge only holds 2.

I have the same problem, have 2 x 58 L SS Kegmenter's producing beer, 13 kegs for that beer and 1 for soda water.  My keezer hold 6 kegs and the beer fridge holds 2.  The others that have been force carbed have to sit out at ambient and wait their turn.  I usually give them a burst of CO2 at serving pressure every so often, say weekly and if they need extra gas they accept it and if they don't then they will not take any in.

Edited May 8 by iBooz2

[glivo]

First Brown Ale out of old mate's keg.  I'm not sure if the lack of head is serving pressure, level of carbonation or the glass.  It drank well and tasted great with good level of carbonation so maybe serving pressure or the glass, which was warm as well.  Anyway, I'll call it a success at this point.  It should get better.

[Back Brewing]

1 hour ago, glivo said:

First Brown Ale out of old mate's keg.  I'm not sure if the lack of head is serving pressure, level of carbonation or the glass.  It drank well and tasted great with good level of carbonation so maybe serving pressure or the glass, which was warm as well.  Anyway, I'll call it a success at this point.  It should get better.

What psi and how long has it been in the keg?

[glivo]

2 hours ago, Back Brewing said:

What psi and how long has it been in the keg?

3 days in keg at 15 psi and only 36 hours of that in the fridge.  I know I've made the mistake or going early, as you do.  Tastes fine, fair bubble but not there yet.  As my first serious girlfriend said, whoa, slow down.

I've cleaned a few beer glasses which I'll put in the freezer tomorrow.  I need to be patient and I have plenty of beer in bottles.

Edited May 8 by glivo

[Back Brewing]

14 minutes ago, glivo said:

3 days in keg at 15 psi and only 36 hours of that in the fridge.  I know I've made the mistake or going early, as you do.  Tastes fine, fair bubble but not there yet.  As my first serious girlfriend said, whoa, slow down.

I've cleaned a few beer glasses which I'll put in the freezer tomorrow.  I need to be patient and I have plenty of beer in bottles.

Set and forget at 10psi to 12psi your looking at 10 to 12 days for carbonation I wouldn't expect to start getting a good pour until about day 8 also the colder the beer the more co2 can be absorbed you will see a big difference in about 5 more days

[kmar92]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

3 days in keg at 15 psi and only 36 hours of that in the fridge.  I know I've made the mistake or going early, as you do.  Tastes fine, fair bubble but not there yet.  As my first serious girlfriend said, whoa, slow down.

I've cleaned a few beer glasses which I'll put in the freezer tomorrow.  I need to be patient and I have plenty of beer in bottles.

I think @glivo that it will take a lot longer yet to get a good carbonation level. From my experience @15psi it will be about 10 days.

[iBooz2]

9 hours ago, glivo said:

First Brown Ale out of old mate's keg.  I'm not sure if the lack of head is serving pressure, level of carbonation or the glass. 

Good head on beer is the product of the recipe not the CO2, which is then supported somewhat by the carbonation.  Gas gives it a fizz, recipe gives it a head. 

You will notice that Coopers have continued to apply 250 g of Carapils to their ROTM pretty much ever since I suggest they take the bull by the horns and solve the lack of head problem in many past K&K recipes.  This addition has taken their kits and bits to the next level IMO and a big thank you to Coopers for listening and also for making that change.  

Edited May 8 by iBooz2