Kegging equipment?

[Classic Brewing Co]

On 4/28/2024 at 3:43 AM, Malter White said:

I'm curious, Glivo. Did this happen on opening the bottle or did it just happen by itself?

I have a 2 litre growler with swing top and when I opened it the pressure was enormous like a champagne bottle. If what has happened to your bottle is from opening I'll want to ensure to take precautions in future.

I used Grolsch swing top bottles for many years when I was bottling & on several occasions I had the bottle explode under the pressure, I can't find the photos but it seperated the metal from the glass. I usually primed them at around 1sp white sugar & drank them all under 3 months.

I find if you intend to store them for longer use less sugar.

It also pays to check them regularly, ensure all debris from previous brews is completely removed & sanitised properly.

Also replace the seals when necessary.

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 hours ago, glivo said:

I hope this isn't a stupid question. Can you used compressed air for cleaning kegs?  I've been watching quite a few videos on keg cleaning and it appears to me that people waste quite a bit of CO2 ($$$) just pushing cleaner, rinse water and sanitiser around when compressed air would do the job.  Obviously, you need to use CO2 when pressurising / purging for empty storage or anything to do with beer, but why waste gas when air would do the job?  Am I missing something?

I often use a 5 litre weed sprayer bottle with the wand removed and replaced with a carbonation cap to push cleaner, sanitiser, water, etc around.  Sometimes it is filled with the liquid that gets pushed through beer lines etc.  Sometimes I use the air pressure to move liquid out of another vessel.

[glivo]

Yeah. I just saw the pump spray in use. I've got a compressor and heaps of flexible line, push fittings and water separator/ regulators, so easy to run a line to the brew shed. 

[glivo]

Unnecessary I know but I don't like messy stuff.  This is a before and after of the used kegs I bought after cleaning them up.  I bought 4 for $25 each including a full set of O-rings for each keg.   They were being used for Kombucha after coming over from the States.  These are usually $50 each but I got them from a guy who bought them and then changed his mind.

That "FRAGILE" tape, layers of clear packing tape and labels were a real pain to remove.  This is from 1 keg.  Each one took me about an hour to strip, and clean outside and in but they scrubbed up pretty well.  Ready to go now.  The clean one in this photo is to be called Jake, as it comes from Joliet Illinois USA.  I love that this is still operational so far away from where it first had beer in it.

[Triple B Brewing]

1 hour ago, glivo said:

Unnecessary I know but I don't like messy stuff.  This is a before and after of the used kegs I bought after cleaning them up.  I bought 4 for $25 each including a full set of O-rings for each keg.   They were being used for Kombucha after coming over from the States.  These are usually $50 each but I got them from a guy who bought them and then changed his mind.

That "FRAGILE" tape, layers of clear packing tape and labels were a real pain to remove.  This is from 1 keg.  Each one took me about an hour to strip, and clean outside and in but they scrubbed up pretty well.  Ready to go now.  The clean one in this photo is to be called Jake, as it comes from Joliet Illinois USA.  I love that this is still operational so far away from where it first had beer in it.

Good job I say @glivo - paid back nicely for just an hours worth of hard graft

[glivo]

7 hours ago, glivo said:

.....  The clean one in this photo is to be called Jake, as it comes from Joliet Illinois USA.  I love that this is still operational so far away from where it first had beer in it. 

OK. Not beer. 7-Up. Joyce Beverages Inc. was the 2nd biggest distributer of 7-Up.  Never mind, I'll still call it Joliet Jake and it will have beer in it next week.

[Aussiekraut]

14 hours ago, glivo said:

OK. Not beer. 7-Up. Joyce Beverages Inc. was the 2nd biggest distributer of 7-Up.  Never mind, I'll still call it Joliet Jake and it will have beer in it next week.

Corny kegs were originally used for soft drinks. Ball lock kegs were Pepsi, and pin lock kegs were Coke IIRC. 

[glivo]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:54 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

See my comments in red.

The HBS guy was going to sell me 5 metres of gas line and 5 m of beer line but then he just said "Here.  You can use this for both." and sold me a 12m roll in a bag from Kegland.  I think it's 8 / 5, but I'd need to check.  You'll probably need around 4m for each beer line.  The gas lines only need to be long enough to reach whatever they are connected to.

 

@Shamus O'Sean, you wrote this the other day saying I need 4m for beer lines using the 8/5mm tubing.  THE HBS guy said 2.5m.  Is there any science to this?  Would smaller tube mean I could go shorter length?  I'm getting to the pointy end pretty soon.

@Aussiekraut Your prediction was correct and the slippery slope is pretty steep at the top.  I had a little spend at the HBS the other day on some "necessary" equipment and ordered a new 2.6 kg CO2 bottle online.  Full of gas and delivered for only $83.00 which I thought was pretty good. 

Now today, as luck would have it, I need to travel to Newcastle.  It just happens that there is a young bloke up that way selling a working Mitsubishi kegorator with tap, lines, another small CO2 bottle (half full he reckons) and regulator all for $50, just to get rid of it.  Needless to say, I'll be bringing it home with me this afternoon.  I'm glad I haven't drilled any holes in my fermentation fridge yet.

I'll be up and running with a kegorator, 3 gas bottles, 2 regulators, 6 kegs, taps, fittings and other gear for under $500.  I'm pretty happy with that.

The "necessary" equipment included things required to carbonate bottled water for my wife.  WW had Soda Stream Pepsi and Pepsi Max half price this week, so I stocked up on it was well.

[Back Brewing]

3 hours ago, glivo said:

@Shamus O'Sean, you wrote this the other day saying I need 4m for beer lines using the 8/5mm tubing.  THE HBS guy said 2.5m.  Is there any science to this?  Would smaller tube mean I could go shorter length?  I'm getting to the pointy end pretty soon.

@Aussiekraut Your prediction was correct and the slippery slope is pretty steep at the top.  I had a little spend at the HBS the other day on some "necessary" equipment and ordered a new 2.6 kg CO2 bottle online.  Full of gas and delivered for only $83.00 which I thought was pretty good. 

Now today, as luck would have it, I need to travel to Newcastle.  It just happens that there is a young bloke up that way selling a working Mitsubishi kegorator with tap, lines, another small CO2 bottle (half full he reckons) and regulator all for $50, just to get rid of it.  Needless to say, I'll be bringing it home with me this afternoon.  I'm glad I haven't drilled any holes in my fermentation fridge yet.

I'll be up and running with a kegorator, 3 gas bottles, 2 regulators, 6 kegs, taps, fittings and other gear for under $500.  I'm pretty happy with that.

The "necessary" equipment included things required to carbonate bottled water for my wife.  WW had Soda Stream Pepsi and Pepsi Max half price this week, so I stocked up on it was well.

My beer lines on the kegerator are 4mm ID and the length is 1.7 metres kegland kegerators cone with 4mm ID beer lines and 5mm ID lines for gas

[glivo]

Good to know BB.  I was just wondering what the reasoning behind it is all about.  Is there some maths to it, or is it just what works?  Larger diameter equals longer run.  Smaller ID and shorter length would make sense if that's the case.

[Back Brewing]

38 minutes ago, glivo said:

Good to know BB.  I was just wondering what the reasoning behind it is all about.  Is there some maths to it, or is it just what works?  Larger diameter equals longer run.  Smaller ID and shorter length would make sense if that's the case.

Have a look on the net there are some useful carbonation charts which shows where temperature and psi are relevant also there are some good beer line calculators for beer line length

[Shamus O'Sean]

15 hours ago, glivo said:

@Shamus O'Sean, you wrote this the other day saying I need 4m for beer lines using the 8/5mm tubing.  THE HBS guy said 2.5m.  Is there any science to this?  Would smaller tube mean I could go shorter length?  I'm getting to the pointy end pretty soon.

@Aussiekraut Your prediction was correct and the slippery slope is pretty steep at the top.  I had a little spend at the HBS the other day on some "necessary" equipment and ordered a new 2.6 kg CO2 bottle online.  Full of gas and delivered for only $83.00 which I thought was pretty good. 

Now today, as luck would have it, I need to travel to Newcastle.  It just happens that there is a young bloke up that way selling a working Mitsubishi kegorator with tap, lines, another small CO2 bottle (half full he reckons) and regulator all for $50, just to get rid of it.  Needless to say, I'll be bringing it home with me this afternoon.  I'm glad I haven't drilled any holes in my fermentation fridge yet.

I'll be up and running with a kegorator, 3 gas bottles, 2 regulators, 6 kegs, taps, fittings and other gear for under $500.  I'm pretty happy with that.

The "necessary" equipment included things required to carbonate bottled water for my wife.  WW had Soda Stream Pepsi and Pepsi Max half price this week, so I stocked up on it was well.

Yep, several online beer line length calculators.  Brewers Friend is one.

Now my beer lines are 4mm ID and are around 2.5 metres long and seem to do the job well.  That makes me think 2.5 metres of 5mm ID beer line might not have enough resistance to slow the flow and reduce frothing

So, I say 4 metres

• Because of my experience, 
• it is easier to cut short lengths off the tube until the flow is balanced

 

[glivo]

5 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Yep, several online beer line length calculators.  Brewers Friend is one.

Now my beer lines are 4mm ID and are around 2.5 metres long and seem to do the job well.  That makes me think 2.5 metres of 5mm ID beer line might not have enough resistance to slow the flow and reduce frothing

So, I say 4 metres

• Because of my experience, 
• it is easier to cut short lengths off the tube until the flow is balanced

 

Are the flow control disconnects a better solution to the problem?

[glivo]

Or this?  https://youtu.be/Qk_uIw16Nk8?si=qvAAq-23rJgzpKx3

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, glivo said:

Are the flow control disconnects a better solution to the problem?

Sorry, I do not know.  My taps do not have them.  Supposedly, it is not best practice to try to manage foam with flow control taps.  However, you see Kegland using them on taps connected straight onto the beer post of a keg.  By "not best practice" I guess what they mean is: If you get the balance right between beer line length and pressure, you do not need flow control taps.

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, glivo said:

Or this?  https://youtu.be/Qk_uIw16Nk8?si=qvAAq-23rJgzpKx3

I saw this video is 30 minutes long, and I do not have time to watch it all at this stage.  However, the guy in the video has some great simple ideas for doing other things.  Therefore, whatever is in the video probably works.

[John304]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:30 AM, glivo said:

@Shamus O'Sean, you wrote this the other day saying I need 4m for beer lines using the 8/5mm tubing.  THE HBS guy said 2.5m.  Is there any science to this?  Would smaller tube mean I could go shorter length?  I'm getting to the pointy end pretty soon.

@Aussiekraut Your prediction was correct and the slippery slope is pretty steep at the top.  I had a little spend at the HBS the other day on some "necessary" equipment and ordered a new 2.6 kg CO2 bottle online.  Full of gas and delivered for only $83.00 which I thought was pretty good. 

Now today, as luck would have it, I need to travel to Newcastle.  It just happens that there is a young bloke up that way selling a working Mitsubishi kegorator with tap, lines, another small CO2 bottle (half full he reckons) and regulator all for $50, just to get rid of it.  Needless to say, I'll be bringing it home with me this afternoon.  I'm glad I haven't drilled any holes in my fermentation fridge yet.

I'll be up and running with a kegorator, 3 gas bottles, 2 regulators, 6 kegs, taps, fittings and other gear for under $500.  I'm pretty happy with that.

The "necessary" equipment included things required to carbonate bottled water for my wife.  WW had Soda Stream Pepsi and Pepsi Max half price this week, so I stocked up on it was well.

Sounds like you are on a roll

[glivo]

2 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sorry, I do not know.  My taps do not have them.  Supposedly, it is not best practice to try to manage foam with flow control taps.  However, you see Kegland using them on taps connected straight onto the beer post of a keg.  By "not best practice" I guess what they mean is: If you get the balance right between beer line length and pressure, you do not need flow control taps.

No, they are flow control disconnects.  Not at the tap, although I have seen those as well.  You use them in place of the usual disconnects for the beer line to the keg and they have an adjustment at the keg.

Flow Control Disconnects.  Also available in SS but out of stock.

Edited May 3 by glivo

[glivo]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I saw this video is 30 minutes long, and I do not have time to watch it all at this stage.  However, the guy in the video has some great simple ideas for doing other things.  Therefore, whatever is in the video probably works.

He is exploring and demonstrating "tube in a tube" where he inserts a very small food grade tube inside the usual 8/5mm, which greatly reduces the flow and allows for much shorter lengths of beer line.  Looks like a good idea to me, assuming we can get really small food grade tube in Australia.  There are a lot of things we can't get or do because we are a nanny state.

[glivo]

2 hours ago, John304 said:

Sounds like you are on a roll

I installed the taps on the door.  The previous owner / builder had the tap hole on one side and gas line hole on the other.  It does fit 2 kegs with the gas bottle outside, but I'll need to build a raised bottom shelf and lose the top plastic shelf.

He was lucky not to wreck the fridge as the heat coils are in the side walls, but he missed them.  That is wifey's carbonated water running to test it all out.  Now I need to work out how to put my straight edged drip tray onto the curved front fridge door.

Edited May 3 by glivo

[glivo]

As soon as I plugged it in, I could feel the warmth on the side walls.  That's the gas hole and tap hole on the side walls.

[Shamus O'Sean]

37 minutes ago, glivo said:

No, they are flow control disconnects.  Not at the tap, although I have seen those as well.  You use them in place of the usual disconnects for the beer line to the keg and they have an adjustment (think electronic impedance) at the keg.

Flow Control Disconnects.  Also available in SS but out of stock.

Ah ha.  I did not read your earlier post correctly.  I have heard people say the flow control disconnects are a better option than flow control taps because they are controlling the flow at the keg rather than at the tap end of the beer line.  But they still say correctly balancing the lines is better still.  At the end of the day, it is about whatever works for you.

By the way, your build looks fantastic.

Edited May 3 by Shamus O'Sean

[glivo]

1 minute ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Ah ha.  I did not read your earlier post correctly.  I have heard people say the flow control disconnects are a better option than flow control taps because they are controlling the flow at the keg rather than at the tap end of the beer line.  But they still say correctly balancing the lines is better still.  At the end of the day, it is about whatever works for you.

Yes, I agree.  Balanced line is best, but if it helps to just fudge a little bit, it can't hurt.  Atmospheric conditions can change from day to day, so if it's easier to do a little dial turn to adjust flow rather than adjust pressures, why not?  I've already found that adjusting pressure accurately at the regulator is a bit iffy.   Maybe my regs are just old and clunky.  I do have some inline regulators that I haven't tried yet.  Perhaps they are more accurate.

I will say that I'm a bit confused because I went to buy some 8/4mm line today and the guy at HBS said he would take my money but insisted that 2.5m of 8/5mm at 6-8 psi is going to do the job.  I'm assuming it probably will but its contrary to everything I'm seeing.  He does know his stuff so I trust him.

[Back Brewing]

5 minutes ago, glivo said:

Yes, I agree.  Balanced line is best, but if it helps to just fudge a little bit, it can't hurt.  Atmospheric conditions can change from day to day, so if it's easier to do a little dial turn to adjust flow rather than adjust pressures, why not?  I've already found that adjusting pressure accurately at the regulator is a bit iffy.   Maybe my regs are just old and clunky.  I do have some inline regulators that I haven't tried yet.  Perhaps they are more accurate.

I will say that I'm a bit confused because I went to buy some 8/4mm line today and the guy at HBS said he would take my money but insisted that 2.5m of 8/5mm at 6-8 psi is going to do the job.  I'm assuming it probably will but its contrary to everything I'm seeing.  He does know his stuff so I trust him.

What works for him may not work for you I mucked around with beer line length for ages.

[glivo]

23 minutes ago, Back Brewing said:

What works for him may not work for you I mucked around with beer line length for ages.

I'm chomping at the bit to get some beer in a keg and try it out.  I'll probably start with Shamus' recommendation of 4 m and just trim it off if I think it's a bit weak on flow.  I don't have flow control devices yet, and I may find it unnecessary.  To be honest, I'm not that fussy.