Kegging equipment?

[glivo]

I have the opportunity to purchase some kegging equipment.  2 X 19l kegs, a near full "my keg on legs" 6.8 kg gas bottle (owned not rented), drip tray, 2 taps, lines and fittings etc.  All I need to do is repurpose and use my little fermentation fridge.   All gear is only $200.  I think the gas bottle is over $320 on its own. Good deal or not?

[glivo]

I might avoid this.  Oops.  Only second use and not over-carbonated as far as I know.

[Aussiekraut]

26 minutes ago, glivo said:

I have the opportunity to purchase some kegging equipment.  2 X 19l kegs, a near full "my keg on legs" 6.8 kg gas bottle (owned not rented), drip tray, 2 taps, lines and fittings etc.  All I need to do is repurpose and use my little fermentation fridge.   All gear is only $200.  I think the gas bottle is over $320 on its own. Good deal or not?

Good deal. A new 19l Corny keg alone is about $120. Find yourself a cheap fridge on Gumtree or somewhere and keep the ferment fridge. It is more important. A chest freezer will do as well but you will need to build yourself a collar for the taps and gas line hole. In case of a freezer, I recommend a temp controller as you do not want to freeze the beer  But yeah, go for it. 

[glivo]

I thought it was a fair deal.  I'm on my way to collect it after convincing the boss that it can also be used to make soda water / soft drinks.   It's local to me at only 5 minutes away which is what caught my eye.

I have 2 STC 1000 heat controllers for ferment fridges and only use 1 at the moment.  I also have a good Fischer and Paykel fridge only unit (half a pigeon pair) that I can use for fermentation without doing damage to it.  If I've got cold beer in kegs, I can live without that one.  I also have a small upright freezer but I'm not sure it will be big enough to hold 2 corny kegs.  I'll work something out.

Oh well, here I go down the slippery slope of kegging.

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, glivo said:

Oh well, here I go down the slippery slope of kegging.

Yep. The next thing is a smaller gas bottle you can use to push cleaner and sanitiser out of the kegs and flush them with CO2 to avoid oxygenation because it is annoying having to use the big gas bottle and disconnect a keg for a few minutes. Then you realise the freezer is indeed big enough and you want to use it for ageing lagers only. But a pluto gun would be good to take samples and maybe another little gas bottle for just that purpose. Then of course come more kegs, etc. Been there done that. IT started with a 3 tap kegerator. Then it became a 4 tap and of course, I needed more kegs, so another 3 kegs. Ahh that's all I need besides another 2 kegs to have spares and two pluto guns because the two kegs in the chest freezer need a serving implement too. Add a little gas bottle to the freezer to be able to gas up kegs before they go into the kegerator. Ok, now I have all I need. Then again, some inline regulators and a manifold, so I can have different serving pressures in the kegs. That is really everything I need now. By now I have 10 kegs, one big and two small gas bottles, the kegerator and the keezer and I am still thinking about what more I could get  

[glivo]

Well thanks for that encouraging projection into my future.  Is a 33 year marriage a good run?   I've already lined up 4 extra kegs (I think, anyway).

The guy I bought this gear from already told me that running 2 different kegs from the one regulator didn't allow for the different pressure requirement of each keg and he had to adjust the reg to use each one.  Inline regs and manifold?

The gear has sat unused for some time so, needless to say, it requires cleaning, and the O-rings are broken.  Look out, as I'm about to pick your brains.  I'll try to find out as much as I can by my own investigations but I'm sure I'll have questions.  The bottoms of the kegs are a bit stained, so I currently have them soaking in Aldi Oxy. I might need some PBW. 

The dip tube post is meant to be the OUT I presume, which means that one keg is assembled the wrong way around.

[Aussiekraut]

33 minutes ago, glivo said:

Well thanks for that encouraging projection into my future.  Is a 33 year marriage a good run?   I've already lined up 4 extra kegs (I think, anyway).

The guy I bought this gear from already told me that running 2 different kegs from the one regulator didn't allow for the different pressure requirement of each keg and he had to adjust the reg to use each one.  Inline regs and manifold?

The gear has sat unused for some time so, needless to say, it requires cleaning, and the O-rings are broken.  Look out, as I'm about to pick your brains.  I'll try to find out as much as I can by my own investigations but I'm sure I'll have questions.  The bottoms of the kegs are a bit stained, so I currently have them soaking in Aldi Oxy. I might need some PBW. 

The dip tube post is meant to be the OUT I presume, which means that one keg is assembled the wrong way around.

Yes, the dip tube goes to the Out post. The short tube on the in post. 

Get yourself a keg repair kit. They don't cost a lot and have all the spares you need to have. Posts, seals, etc. It's helpful.

Yes, a manifold and inline regulators are the way to go. The manifold gets fed from the main regulator and the inline regs connect to each of its ports. You can even turn gas for a keg off completely without having to turn the bottle off. 

Please excuse the shonky craftsmanship. It's pretty good for somebody with two left hands   I have the main regulator set to 40psi and the little inline ones to the individual pressures. I colour-coded the regulators, the disconnects (in and out) and even the top of the taps, so I know exactly what goes where. 4 different colours of nail polish do the trick quite nicely.

 

[John304]

44 minutes ago, glivo said:

Well thanks for that encouraging projection into my future.  Is a 33 year marriage a good run?   I've already lined up 4 extra kegs (I think, anyway).

The guy I bought this gear from already told me that running 2 different kegs from the one regulator didn't allow for the different pressure requirement of each keg and he had to adjust the reg to use each one.  Inline regs and manifold?

The gear has sat unused for some time so, needless to say, it requires cleaning, and the O-rings are broken.  Look out, as I'm about to pick your brains.  I'll try to find out as much as I can by my own investigations but I'm sure I'll have questions.  The bottoms of the kegs are a bit stained, so I currently have them soaking in Aldi Oxy. I might need some PBW. 

The dip tube post is meant to be the OUT I presume, which means that one keg is assembled the wrong way around.

The long dip tube is the out and the short is in, 

[John304]

Just now, John304 said:

The long dip tube is the out and the short is in, 

Sorry, didn’t see @Aussiekrauts post

[Classic Brewing Co]

4 hours ago, glivo said:

I have the opportunity to purchase some kegging equipment.  2 X 19l kegs, a near full "my keg on legs" 6.8 kg gas bottle (owned not rented), drip tray, 2 taps, lines and fittings etc.  All I need to do is repurpose and use my little fermentation fridge.   All gear is only $200.  I think the gas bottle is over $320 on its own. Good deal or not?

Sounds like an excellent deal.

[glivo]

Let the fun begin.  I just went and spent some money on new lines, clamps, O-rings and teflon washers for the panel mount line connections.  I have thread taps for pipe threads and I not long ago made a solid brass 6-way manifold for my compressed air, so I'm probably looking at similar for this unless it's really cheap to buy one.  Perhaps a 3-way would be handy for 2 kegs. 

@Aussiekrautwhat are those little inline regulators worth and where did you get them?

Old mate at the HBS said my beer lines should always be 2.5m long between the post and tap and coiled up to get good head.   Any family friendly thoughts on this? 

I was also warned about just drilling holes anywhere in my fridge.  Apparently, some of them have pipework in the side walls.  Is anybody familiar with old Kelvinator's? 

[Aussiekraut]

38 minutes ago, glivo said:

Let the fun begin.  I just went and spent some money on new lines, clamps, O-rings and teflon washers for the panel mount line connections.  I have thread taps for pipe threads and I not long ago made a solid brass 6-way manifold for my compressed air, so I'm probably looking at similar for this unless it's really cheap to buy one.  Perhaps a 3-way would be handy for 2 kegs. 

@Aussiekrautwhat are those little inline regulators worth and where did you get them?

Old mate at the HBS said my beer lines should always be 2.5m long between the post and tap and coiled up to get good head.   Any family friendly thoughts on this? 

I was also warned about just drilling holes anywhere in my fridge.  Apparently, some of them have pipework in the side walls.  Is anybody familiar with old Kelvinator's? 

I got my regs from KegLand. 

https://www.kegland.com.au/products/duotight-inline-in-line-regulator-with-integrated-gauge-for-water-or-gas-8mm-5-16-push-in?_pos=1&_sid=80617cbd6&_ss=r

You probably know but a one way valve for the gas line isn't a bad idea. However, manifolds usually have one built in. They aren't particularly exy in my opinion. I think you can pick a 4-port like mine up for <$30.

Line length depends on the line size and pressure. Liquid usually is 8mm outer diameter, 4mm inner (5mm for gas). For gas lines, it doesn't matter in the grander scheme of things. My liquid lines are 4mm and around 3.5m long for a serving pressure of about 12-15psi. You can do 12psi with less though, so 2.5 probably is fine. I'm no scientist or gas fitter, so I just do what I am told  SWMBO doesn't think so though. 

Driloing holes in a fridge is less scary than a freezer. The door is usually fine but the sides may contain lines. My two ferment fridges have a plate inside tight at the back, which does all the chilling, so I presume the sides are fine. In fact, one of them had a latch and lock bolted to them on the side and there doesn't seem to be anything in the way. So it all depends on the fridge you have. 

[glivo]

Thanks for the advice so far.  All good stuff.  I said Kelvinator but it's actually an old Westinghouse.   I think I'll be able to find a safe place to drill for the gas line.  Away from the controls obviously. 

The HBS guy was going to sell me 5 metres of gas line and 5 m of beer line but then he just said "Here.  You can use this for both." and sold me a 12m roll in a bag from Kegland.  I think it's 8 / 5, but I'd need to check.

I've been taking everything apart and I don't think the guy who owned this stuff cleaned his lines very often.  It was a no-brainer to buy new lines and refit everything to my fridge, but I just took one of the panel mounts apart, and it is filthy inside.  They are going to take a bit of cleaning, which begs the question, when in use how often should they be stripped down?

[Shamus O'Sean]

4 hours ago, glivo said:

Thanks for the advice so far.  All good stuff.  I said Kelvinator but it's actually an old Westinghouse.   I think I'll be able to find a safe place to drill for the gas line.  Away from the controls obviously.  A quick google suggests making up a paste of rubbing alcohol and corn starch and smearing it on the wall of the fridge where you are thinking of drilling.  Where it dries first should be where the warmer gas lines are located. 

The HBS guy was going to sell me 5 metres of gas line and 5 m of beer line but then he just said "Here.  You can use this for both." and sold me a 12m roll in a bag from Kegland.  I think it's 8 / 5, but I'd need to check.  You'll probably need around 4m for each beer line.  The gas lines only need to be long enough to reach whatever they are connected to.

I've been taking everything apart and I don't think the guy who owned this stuff cleaned his lines very often.  It was a no-brainer to buy new lines and refit everything to my fridge, but I just took one of the panel mounts apart, and it is filthy inside.  They are going to take a bit of cleaning, which begs the question, when in use how often should they be stripped down?  I clean my beer line every time I empty a keg and remove that line from the keg.  Similarly, wipe walls and floor down when kegs are swapped over.

See my comments in red.

Photo of coiled beer line held neatly together with velcro straps.  Also showing colour coded pvc tape.

[glivo]

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean. I understand cleaning the lines every time a keg is changed over. Thats pretty straight forward.  I was referring to the panel mount stems that go through the fridge wall or door. The ones I have are large ball lock connectors on the outside with the threaded line connector inside. I think the tap bodies are Andale brand.  Anyway, those stems come apart and they are filthy inside, as are the dip tubes. How often would you need to clean the tap stems and for that matter, the taps themselves.

I'll post a photo tomorrow.

[glivo]

This is what I'm asking about.  Andale 3" x 3/8" Panel Adaptors.  If these are "fixed in" through the fridge door, how often do you remove and clean them?

It looks to me like the previous owner never did, and they clearly need to be cleaned from time to time.  I'll put these in the ultrasonic parts cleaner today and see how they come up.

These are the Andale taps I have.  Does anybody know what type they are? I can only see Brumby taps on the Andale website?  Are these older ones discontinued?  These are pretty grubby inside as well.

Edited April 27 by glivo

[Aussiekraut]

4 hours ago, glivo said:

This is what I'm asking about.  Andale 3" x 3/8" Panel Adaptors.  If these are "fixed in" through the fridge door, how often do you remove and clean them?

It looks to me like the previous owner never did, and they clearly need to be cleaned from time to time.  I'll put these in the ultrasonic parts cleaner today and see how they come up.

These are the Andale taps I have.  Does anybody know what type they are? I can only see Brumby taps on the Andale website?  Are these older ones discontinued?  These are pretty grubby inside as well.

Sorry mate, can't help you with these. I mostly use duotight connectors for my gas and liquid line. The taps I use are Nukatap with duotight compatible shanks. TBH, I have no clue what I am looking at  I'm sure there are people here who know more about this.

[glivo]

No worries. I know what they are.  These things.  At least now they are clean enough for me to consider using them.  Interestingly, this company has their NSW showroom just 10 minutes up the road.  I'll have to pay them a visit.

Stripped down, 30 minutes in the ultra-sonic parts cleaner with Green Clean at 60'C followed by a good long soak in Di-San Oxy at about 80'C and a rinse.  They look a lot better now.  You should have seen the crud that came out of them.  I can't believe beer was going through them into a glass.

].

[Shamus O'Sean]

10 hours ago, glivo said:

This is what I'm asking about.  Andale 3" x 3/8" Panel Adaptors.  If these are "fixed in" through the fridge door, how often do you remove and clean them?

It looks to me like the previous owner never did, and they clearly need to be cleaned from time to time.  I'll put these in the ultrasonic parts cleaner today and see how they come up.

These are the Andale taps I have.  Does anybody know what type they are? I can only see Brumby taps on the Andale website?  Are these older ones discontinued?  These are pretty grubby inside as well.

It's a good thing you know what you're looking at.  Seems like good quality old school stuff.  It has come up nicely after your clean.  The previous owner probably never cleaned their stuff.  Either that, or left it to sit and dry out.

[Malter White]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:05 AM, glivo said:

I might avoid this.  Oops.  Only second use and not over-carbonated as far as I know.

I'm curious, Glivo. Did this happen on opening the bottle or did it just happen by itself?

I have a 2 litre growler with swing top and when I opened it the pressure was enormous like a champagne bottle. If what has happened to your bottle is from opening I'll want to ensure to take precautions in future.

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 hours ago, Malter White said:

I'm curious, Glivo. Did this happen on opening the bottle or did it just happen by itself?

I have a 2 litre growler with swing top and when I opened it the pressure was enormous like a champagne bottle. If what has happened to your bottle is from opening I'll want to ensure to take precautions in future.

Maybe this is worth mentioning Malter, I have the same one you have from Lobethal Bierhaus & I have re-filled it 1/2 dozen times but the last time was about a month ago & the damn thing nearly took off. As soon as the stopper was able to it burst open & sent the biggest gusher I have ever seen really high with a lot of force - what a mess.

Beer went everywhere, probably lost 1/3 off it & I am wary to use it again.

I hate bottling so it was used to take up the excess from a 20+litre brew as only 19l can fit in a keg, I have bought a 9.fl Corny keg since then for that purpose.

I did clean & sanitise it properly & only ever used 4 x tsp white sugar but the only thing I can think of that would cause it the last brew in it was an AG brew.

[glivo]

10 hours ago, Malter White said:

I'm curious, Glivo. Did this happen on opening the bottle or did it just happen by itself?

I have a 2 litre growler with swing top and when I opened it the pressure was enormous like a champagne bottle. If what has happened to your bottle is from opening I'll want to ensure to take precautions in future.

I found it like that. The top part moved when I pulled one of the outside bottles away.  It had jumped a few rows and I had to search for the broken one.  No mess fortunately.  Glad it didn't happen in my hand, and it's made me a bit wary of handling the rest.  So far, so good though and I've done about 10.  I think it was a dud bottle.

[Malter White]

22 minutes ago, glivo said:

I found it like that. The top part moved when I pulled one of the outside bottles away.  It had jumped a few rows and I had to search for the broken one.  No mess fortunately.  Glad it didn't happen in my hand, and it's made me a bit wary of handling the rest.  So far, so good though and I've done about 10.  I think it was a dud bottle.

That eases my mind a bit. The growler I have looks like it has thicker glass so hopefully shouldn't break as easily. I was more concerned the lid and it's cradle were flung on to the bottle on opening.

[glivo]

It shouldn't happen with (new) bottles meant to be for beer bottling.  It was well finished before bottling and not over-primed.  Still, things happen, and you have to be ready for anything.

[glivo]

I hope this isn't a stupid question. Can you used compressed air for cleaning kegs?  I've been watching quite a few videos on keg cleaning and it appears to me that people waste quite a bit of CO2 ($$$) just pushing cleaner, rinse water and sanitiser around when compressed air would do the job.  Obviously, you need to use CO2 when pressurising / purging for empty storage or anything to do with beer, but why waste gas when air would do the job?  Am I missing something?