Using honey

[Aussiekraut]

I sampled a few tasty honeys a few days ago and got inspired to brew with it. I have an idea of what to make but am not sure about amounts and timing.

Looking at recipes out there, the amount used is usually somewhere between half a kilo and one and a half. The latter seems a little excessive and I only want things to be fairly subtle, so I was thinking half a kilo should do the job. Does that sound right?

As for timing, some say to add it at toward the end of the boil, some say once the boil is finished and some put it in right after mashout. What's the best time to add it? While I have made a honey wheat as a k&b, that was many many years ago, so basically, I have no clue as to when and how. I was thinking of adding it after mashout, as honey can produce a lot of hot break. 

Who has experience using honey and knows what they're doing?

[Classic Brewing Co]

3 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I sampled a few tasty honeys a few days ago and got inspired to brew with it. I have an idea of what to make but am not sure about amounts and timing.

Looking at recipes out there, the amount used is usually somewhere between half a kilo and one and a half. The latter seems a little excessive and I only want things to be fairly subtle, so I was thinking half a kilo should do the job. Does that sound right?

As for timing, some say to add it at toward the end of the boil, some say once the boil is finished and some put it in right after mashout. What's the best time to add it? While I have made a honey wheat as a k&b, that was many many years ago, so basically, I have no clue as to when and how. I was thinking of adding it after mashout, as honey can produce a lot of hot break. 

Who has experience using honey and knows what they're doing?

AK, I don't but I remember a few years ago 'Grumphys Brewhaus' just out of Hahndorf in the Adelaide Hills produced a couple of Honey Wheat Beers called Beesting & Buzz Beer, they were very nice.  The brewery was destroyed by fire about 2016, it was a popular place.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-19/whats-happening-with-the-grumpys-brewhaus/9881650

 

[Pale Man]

10 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I sampled a few tasty honeys a few days ago and got inspired to brew with it. I have an idea of what to make but am not sure about amounts and timing.

Looking at recipes out there, the amount used is usually somewhere between half a kilo and one and a half. The latter seems a little excessive and I only want things to be fairly subtle, so I was thinking half a kilo should do the job. Does that sound right?

As for timing, some say to add it at toward the end of the boil, some say once the boil is finished and some put it in right after mashout. What's the best time to add it? While I have made a honey wheat as a k&b, that was many many years ago, so basically, I have no clue as to when and how. I was thinking of adding it after mashout, as honey can produce a lot of hot break. 

Who has experience using honey and knows what they're doing?

Ive always been very keen to try some good honey in an all grain wheat beer, I'll watch this one carefully.

[ChairmanDrew]

12 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

While I have made a honey wheat as a k&b, that was many many years ago, so basically, I have no clue as to when and how.

Was it the Beekeeper? https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/beekeeper.html

Edited January 16 by ChairmanDrew

[Aussiekraut]

9 hours ago, ChairmanDrew said:

Was it the Beekeeper? https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/beekeeper.html

Nah, that attempt predated this site by a few years. But seeing this recipe uses 335g of honey, My guestimate of 500g wasn't bad. THat should seer me to where I want to be. I have other beers to make first but in a few weeks, I should be ready  

[iBooz2]

@Aussiekraut like you I have also used honey back in the day, long before I did kits and bits.  It was not out of interest but out of the shear need for sugars in my brews that were not immediately to hand so out come the tin/tub of mum's honey.

Many years ago I did try and honey wheat beer and I really enjoyed it.  From memory it was a craft beer brewery at that time and of course it now no longer exists so I too am interested in having a crack at brewing one of these beers.

My thoughts and study on homey as an flavouring/adjunct.

• Honey is very similar in brewing specs as liquid malt extract and dry malt extract in as far as extract yield is concerned.
• DME has an extract yield of 45
• Honey has and extract yield of 38
• LME has an extract yield of 36
• Honey has the highest out of the above three for ferment ability being 95%
• Both LME and DME have a ferment ability of 75 % so honey is not going to bring much in the way of body to your beer.
• Basically using honey is the same as using high fructose corn syrup but honey has more flavour, which can bring extra flavours to the beer like light citrus and golden raisins (for example – depends on the honey chosen based on what nectar’s created the honey).
• Be warned that a lot of commercial honey brands have been adulterated to include a lot of sucrose that has been hydrolyzed to separate the glucose and the fructose to keep the now “so called honey” more syrupy.
• Pure natural honey will go crystalline over time.  Adulterated honey will not and it will stay syrupy and runny for a long time.
• Pure natural honey is the only foodstuff that does not “go off”.
• If your tub of pure natural honey has gone crystalline, great news, it is real honey, just sit it in a tub of hot water for some time until its natural liquid state is restored.
• Pure natural honey generally needs to be pasteurized before being added to the fermenter (30 minutes at 80 C then cooled before adding).
• If you had a particularly strong flavoured honey then you could possibly add it, late in the boil to sanitise it but you do risk boiling off those honey flavours.  Probably better to mix it with a small amount of boiling water in a pot to make slurry and then holding it just below boiling for the required time to pasteurize it, then quickly cooling it just before adding.
• To ensure maximum honey flavour being passed onto the beer then it should be added like a dry hop just after primary fermentation stage is almost complete.
• Pasteurized natural honey can also be used to prime bottles and kegs to carbonate the beer.  This would also bring out more of those honey flavours to the finished beer.
• Start off with a lessor amount of honey and move onward an upwards from that point.  At the end of the day it’s better to have a beer of lessor flavour that you will drink rather than one that’s too strong and you won’t drink it.

Edited January 17 by iBooz2

[NBillett09]

Thanks for the info @iBooz2, I was wondering how you would go about making the honey sanitary from external bugs. I did make the coolers honey kolsche a while ago. Was nice but honey flavour was subdues and it was quite a dry beer. When I do something like this again I’ll go for an ale instead, possibly wheat beer.

Matilda Bay Brewing used to make a honey (wheat?) ale called Beez Neez which was quite nice!

[Aussiekraut]

2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Aussiekraut like you I have also used honey back in the day, long before I did kits and bits.  It was not out of interest but out of the shear need for sugars in my brews that were not immediately to hand so out come the tin/tub of mum's honey.

Many years ago I did try and honey wheat beer and I really enjoyed it.  From memory it was a craft beer brewery at that time and of course it now no longer exists so I too am interested in having a crack at brewing one of these beers.

My thoughts and study on homey as an flavouring/adjunct.

• Honey is very similar in brewing specs as liquid malt extract and dry malt extract in as far as extract yield is concerned.
• DME has an extract yield of 45
• Honey has and extract yield of 38
• LME has an extract yield of 36
• Honey has the highest out of the above three for ferment ability being 95%
• Both LME and DME have a ferment ability of 75 % so honey is not going to bring much in the way of body to your beer.
• Basically using honey is the same as using high fructose corn syrup but honey has more flavour, which can bring extra flavours to the beer like light citrus and golden raisins (for example – depends on the honey chosen based on what nectar’s created the honey).
• Be warned that a lot of commercial honey brands have been adulterated to include a lot of sucrose that has been hydrolyzed to separate the glucose and the fructose to keep the now “so called honey” more syrupy.
• Pure natural honey will go crystalline over time.  Adulterated honey will not and it will stay syrupy and runny for a long time.
• Pure natural honey is the only foodstuff that does not “go off”.
• If your tub of pure natural honey has gone crystalline, great news, it is real honey, just sit it in a tub of hot water for some time until its natural liquid state is restored.
• Pure natural honey generally needs to be pasteurized before being added to the fermenter (30 minutes at 80 C then cooled before adding).
• If you had a particularly strong flavoured honey then you could possibly add it, late in the boil to sanitise it but you do risk boiling off those honey flavours.  Probably better to mix it with a small amount of boiling water in a pot to make slurry and then holding it just below boiling for the required time to pasteurize it, then quickly cooling it just before adding.
• To ensure maximum honey flavour being passed onto the beer then it should be added like a dry hop just after primary fermentation stage is almost complete.
• Pasteurized natural honey can also be used to prime bottles and kegs to carbonate the beer.  This would also bring out more of those honey flavours to the finished beer.
• Start off with a lessor amount of honey and move onward an upwards from that point.  At the end of the day it’s better to have a beer of lessor flavour that you will drink rather than one that’s too strong and you won’t drink it.

Hey mate, thanks heaps for that. This is some very useful info. 
I am a bit picky with honey and only buy it from the markets. It’s the type of honey that drives you mad because it crystalises in winter. Atleast I know it is good  But for this batch, I picked up a very nice honey from a honey shop. It is fairly dark and has intense flavours I’m hoping to make shine in a honey beer. I’m going for half a kilo of honey to 5kg of grain. I’ll keep the grain bill simple with probably just Coopers Pale Ale malt, a little wheat and Carapils to help it out. 
the only worry I have is adding unpasteurized, untreated and in no way sanitised honey to a fermenting beer. Yes, the yeast is still in full swing but is it enough to starve other things by eating faster? I’m thinking adding it to the cube before the wort goes in might be a compromise. It’s usually around 80-85C after whirlpool and should still sanitise it but not boil off flavour. 

[kmar92]

@Aussiekraut honey has been used in fermentation for thousands of years and long before pasteurization, etc. Mead is an example. Honey has natural anti-microbial properties and has been used for wound dressings etc to minimise infection.

I reckon that if you have good quality, unadulterated honey there would be minimal chance of an infection. Maybe if you are worried pasteurize it by heating it up for a period and then cooling it although from what I have read it is not necessary.

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

I’m thinking adding it to the cube before the wort goes in might be a compromise. It’s usually around 80-85C after whirlpool and should still sanitise it but not boil off flavour

That sounds like a great plan.  Interesting though, when I used honey in one or two kit and kilo brews, it was just added straight into the fermenter like the Coopers cans.