Compensate for a too-sweet brew

[stquinto]

Mu double batch of Duvel (AG) is going in for a 20 day cold crash. It’s at 1.003 after 2 weeks in the FV, but slightly sweet (even with 4 packs of MJ41 for 35l, two of which were made into a healthy starter). The recipe is only pilsner malt and dex, with some Saaz.

Anyone tried a dry hop to bring on some bitterness to compensate? Or a hop tea?

The internet suggest a dry hop would only add aroma but maybe a tea would help. I also have a 10l keg from the previous brew that is too sweet (3 months in the keg): I’m tempted to add some with a tea if it worked .

Any ideas?

[stquinto]

And the recipe 

Duvel-double-batch.pdf

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

@stquinto I reckon mixing in a hop tea would have to do something. Although my experience putting a hop tea in the keg it still tastes different than if was done in fermenter. 

I did not really give mine much time to sit and blend in though. Maybe if game it time to mix even laying it down for a few hours or gently rock it to mix it through.

[Aussiekraut]

3 hours ago, stquinto said:

Mu double batch of Duvel (AG) is going in for a 20 day cold crash. It’s at 1.003 after 2 weeks in the FV, but slightly sweet (even with 4 packs of MJ41 for 35l, two of which were made into a healthy starter). The recipe is only pilsner malt and dex, with some Saaz.

Anyone tried a dry hop to bring on some bitterness to compensate? Or a hop tea?

The internet suggest a dry hop would only add aroma but maybe a tea would help. I also have a 10l keg from the previous brew that is too sweet (3 months in the keg): I’m tempted to add some with a tea if it worked .

Any ideas?

A dry bop won't add any bitterness as you need 80+C to isomerise the alpha acids in the hops. 

I'd say a hop tea, as @Uhtred Of Beddanburg suggested, is your best bet to add hop bitterness. 

I wonder why there is too much sweetness if the brew is at 1.003. There isn't much sugar left to make things too sweet.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Aussiekraut

[RDT2]

4 hours ago, stquinto said:

Mu double batch of Duvel (AG) is going in for a 20 day cold crash. It’s at 1.003 after 2 weeks in the FV, but slightly sweet (even with 4 packs of MJ41 for 35l, two of which were made into a healthy starter). The recipe is only pilsner malt and dex, with some Saaz.

Anyone tried a dry hop to bring on some bitterness to compensate? Or a hop tea?

The internet suggest a dry hop would only add aroma but maybe a tea would help. I also have a 10l keg from the previous brew that is too sweet (3 months in the keg): I’m tempted to add some with a tea if it worked .

Any ideas?

Do you have a homebrew store nearby as i would suggest hop extract for a duvel! 
Did you check the alpha acid on your hops as Saaz can have a very low Alpha Acid and were they fresh! I had some once which were really low and i picked up on it at the last minute luckily i was able to adjust in time!

Edited October 28, 2023 by RDT2

[stquinto]

Thanks for your replies fellas. 

I’ll go for a hop tea towards the end of the cold crash I suppose, and if I can get some hop extract put some in the keg that’s 3 months old.

Maybe the Saaz was a bit old, although under a year, and kept in the freezer.

The OG was much higher than the recipe - more like 1.072, making it 9.1%. I think I set the efficiency too low in the GF software. 
Probably needs more hops early in the boil  too.

Cheers

[Aussiekraut]

30 minutes ago, stquinto said:

Thanks for your replies fellas. 

I’ll go for a hop tea towards the end of the cold crash I suppose, and if I can get some hop extract put some in the keg that’s 3 months old.

Maybe the Saaz was a bit old, although under a year, and kept in the freezer.

The OG was much higher than the recipe - more like 1.072, making it 9.1%. I think I set the efficiency too low in the GF software. 
Probably needs more hops early in the boil  too.

Cheers

I just looked at the recipe. You have an IBU of about 30 and the original Duvel has an IBU of 33, so you are not far off. But it could be just that little bit that disturbs the balance of sweet and bitter. I wouldn't go overboard with the hop tea. 

[Malter White]

I'm just thinking out loud here but could you add a little something to each glass to offset the sweetness? eg. a few drops of lemon, lime & bitters. 

[stquinto]

2 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

I just looked at the recipe. You have an IBU of about 30 and the original Duvel has an IBU of 33, so you are not far off. But it could be just that little bit that disturbs the balance of sweet and bitter. I wouldn't go overboard with the hop tea. 

I was just looking at cryo hops for dry hopping. My LHBS is out of liquid hop extract but a bit of citra cryo might make it like one of the Duvel triple hop beers.

But yes, shouldn’t overdo it

[stquinto]

1 minute ago, Malter White said:

I'm just thinking out loud here but could you add a little something to each glass to offset the sweetness? eg. a few drops of lemon, lime & bitters. 

I could try that Malter as I have a keg on the go. Angustora might be a bit harsh though, start with lime perhaps

[MitchBastard]

the sweetness you’re getting is probably alcohol sweetness. At 9.1% you’re up there. With higher grav beers it’s an idea to target higher IBU than intended to compensate for potential IBU scrub during ferment.
You could do a bench top experiment and adjust the pH with lactic acid. More acidity will offset some sweetness and also accentuate some dryness. 

 

[stquinto]

23 hours ago, MitchBastard said:

the sweetness you’re getting is probably alcohol sweetness. At 9.1% you’re up there. With higher grav beers it’s an idea to target higher IBU than intended to compensate for potential IBU scrub during ferment.
You could do a bench top experiment and adjust the pH with lactic acid. More acidity will offset some sweetness and also accentuate some dryness. 

 

Thanks for the info, it certainly sounds right. I'll remember that for my next strong brew.

Could be interesting to try the lactic acid, I imagine a tiny amount would do it. In Guinness clone I think it was 3 - 4ml per 20 litres. Probably need much less, if I can find a spare 5l keg at kegging time it might be interesting to put some in.

 

[stquinto]

I put a few drops of lactic acid in the glass with a pipette. Really helps matters!

I’m not sure how to dose a 10 litre keg, or indeed if the taste changes over time, but it’s defo an option.

Thanks Mitch!

[stquinto]

I went for a dry hop for the double batch. It has pretty much fermented out and I couldn’t get any extract.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by stquinto
Typo

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 hours ago, stquinto said:

I went for a dry hop for the double batch. It has pretty much fermented out and I couldn’t get any extract.

 

Hey Stquinta, do you get much hop matter in the keg or does the CC get rid of all of it, I would imagine there would still be bits.

[stquinto]

15 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Hey Stquinta, do you get much hop matter in the keg or does the CC get rid of all of it, I would imagine there would still be bits.

I’ll let you know when I keg Phil. I suspect I might need my filters

[Classic Brewing Co]

Just now, stquinto said:

I’ll let you know when I keg Phil. I suspect I might need my filters

Yeah, I was thinking that.

[stquinto]

I kegged it after a 6 day dry hop. Tastes better but there is still a bit of sweetness. From what’s been said the dry hops are more for aroma, but you live and learn

 

[stquinto]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:40 PM, Classic Brewing Co said:

Yeah, I was thinking that.

Practically no gunk Phil - the whole hops seem to be floaters

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

2 hours ago, stquinto said:

Practically no gunk Phil - the whole hops seem to be floaters

 

Awesome, they will probably break up & hardly be noticeable, I use a sock these days, saves buying a filter.