Best Extra Stout stuck ferment

[Beer here now]

Hey guys, looking for some advice. I going away in just over a weeks time and will be gone for 3 months. I have a batch of stout in the fermenter which appears to be stuck. Recipe was 1 x 1.7kg coopers stout can, 1.5kg coopers dark malt extract, 1kg dextrose and 250g chocolate malt grain (steeped) made up to 19.5l. Yeast is CCA yeast that I have been reusing for a number of batches. The previous batch of beer was a pale ale that flew along (49% attenuated after 2.5 days) so not sure why this one seems to have stalled, but obviously also had a high OG (1.067) so possibly just that. At day 10 it was at 1.032 (51% attenuation) and at day 13 is at 1.031. Taste is very sweet so clearly not done. I estimated it should finish around 1.018 give or take as the coopers yeast for me, attenuates to around 72%. Not sure with the dextrose, would assume a slightly  higher attenuation (?), not lower. First 10 days fermented at 21 degrees. Have today bumped up to 22.5 and added 2x packs of the kit yeast to try get it going. The last batch of stout I did was the same recipe, less the dextrose. It was at 64% attenuation after 6 days and finished out at 71% in 2 weeks.  My question is, at what gravity would you consider bottling? I am thinking I could skip priming if I am still short of the FG, obviously within reason. Don't want to have to throw it out, but also don't really want exploding bottles while I'm gone Any advice is appreciated!

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Beer here now said:

Hey guys, looking for some advice. I going away in just over a weeks time and will be gone for 3 months. I have a batch of stout in the fermenter which appears to be stuck. Recipe was 1 x 1.7kg coopers stout can, 1.5kg coopers dark malt extract, 1kg dextrose and 250g chocolate malt grain (steeped) made up to 19.5l. Yeast is CCA yeast that I have been reusing for a number of batches. The previous batch of beer was a pale ale that flew along (49% attenuated after 2.5 days) so not sure why this one seems to have stalled, but obviously also had a high OG (1.067) so possibly just that. At day 10 it was at 1.032 (51% attenuation) and at day 13 is at 1.031. Taste is very sweet so clearly not done. I estimated it should finish around 1.018 give or take as the coopers yeast for me, attenuates to around 72%. Not sure with the dextrose, would assume a slightly  higher attenuation (?), not lower. First 10 days fermented at 21 degrees. Have today bumped up to 22.5 and added 2x packs of the kit yeast to try get it going. The last batch of stout I did was the same recipe, less the dextrose. It was at 64% attenuation after 6 days and finished out at 71% in 2 weeks.  My question is, at what gravity would you consider bottling? I am thinking I could skip priming if I am still short of the FG, obviously within reason. Don't want to have to throw it out, but also don't really want exploding bottles while I'm gone Any advice is appreciated!

Have you calibrated your hydrometer ?  Sounds a bit high but I would check it anyway. There are a fair amount of fermentables in there so it may finish a bit higher.

I would leave it as long as possible before bottling to be on the safe side as you can't let it sit for 3 months.

https://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Hydrometer

Start by measuring the specific gravity of distilled water. This should register as 1.000 on the hydrometer.

https://beerandbrewing.com/calibrating-your-hydrometer/

Edited October 24, 2022 by Classic Brewing Co

[kmar92]

4 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

There are a fair amount of fermentables in there so it may finish a bit higher.

 

Actually if there are a high amount of fermentables, by definition, they will ferment out and add ABV and not contribute to a higher than expected SG.

It sounds to me like the yeast has quit due to the original high SG of the wort. Add more yeast. This brew would probably have benefited from a starter to increase the yeast cell count.

[Shamus O'Sean]

7 hours ago, Beer here now said:

Hey guys, looking for some advice. I going away in just over a weeks time and will be gone for 3 months. I have a batch of stout in the fermenter which appears to be stuck. Recipe was 1 x 1.7kg coopers stout can, 1.5kg coopers dark malt extract, 1kg dextrose and 250g chocolate malt grain (steeped) made up to 19.5l. Yeast is CCA yeast that I have been reusing for a number of batches. The previous batch of beer was a pale ale that flew along (49% attenuated after 2.5 days) so not sure why this one seems to have stalled, but obviously also had a high OG (1.067) so possibly just that. At day 10 it was at 1.032 (51% attenuation) and at day 13 is at 1.031. Taste is very sweet so clearly not done. I estimated it should finish around 1.018 give or take as the coopers yeast for me, attenuates to around 72%. Not sure with the dextrose, would assume a slightly  higher attenuation (?), not lower. First 10 days fermented at 21 degrees. Have today bumped up to 22.5 and added 2x packs of the kit yeast to try get it going. The last batch of stout I did was the same recipe, less the dextrose. It was at 64% attenuation after 6 days and finished out at 71% in 2 weeks.  My question is, at what gravity would you consider bottling? I am thinking I could skip priming if I am still short of the FG, obviously within reason. Don't want to have to throw it out, but also don't really want exploding bottles while I'm gone Any advice is appreciated!

Hopefully the extra packets of kit yeast will help this along.  The highest FG that I bottled was 1.017 - No issues with bombs.  If the SG is still falling do not bottle.  If it stabilises at or below 1.025, I would bottle.  However, I would use half as much priming sugar.  That is in case the priming sugar kicks of the yeast to consume more than just the priming sugar.  I would also use PET bottles because they tend not to explode as much as rupture.  Still a mess, but pretty safe.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

8 hours ago, Beer here now said:

Hey guys, looking for some advice. I going away in just over a weeks time and will be gone for 3 months. I have a batch of stout in the fermenter which appears to be stuck. Recipe was 1 x 1.7kg coopers stout can, 1.5kg coopers dark malt extract, 1kg dextrose and 250g chocolate malt grain (steeped) made up to 19.5l. Yeast is CCA yeast that I have been reusing for a number of batches. The previous batch of beer was a pale ale that flew along (49% attenuated after 2.5 days) so not sure why this one seems to have stalled, but obviously also had a high OG (1.067) so possibly just that. At day 10 it was at 1.032 (51% attenuation) and at day 13 is at 1.031. Taste is very sweet so clearly not done. I estimated it should finish around 1.018 give or take as the coopers yeast for me, attenuates to around 72%. Not sure with the dextrose, would assume a slightly  higher attenuation (?), not lower. First 10 days fermented at 21 degrees. Have today bumped up to 22.5 and added 2x packs of the kit yeast to try get it going. The last batch of stout I did was the same recipe, less the dextrose. It was at 64% attenuation after 6 days and finished out at 71% in 2 weeks.  My question is, at what gravity would you consider bottling? I am thinking I could skip priming if I am still short of the FG, obviously within reason. Don't want to have to throw it out, but also don't really want exploding bottles while I'm gone Any advice is appreciated!

How old was the slurry you used and how much of it. It sounds like an underpitch to me especially with the temp you fermented at. I'd give it a stir and throw the extra yeast at it. Should get it done.

[Oldbloke]

11 minutes ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

How old was the slurry you used and how much of it. It sounds like an underpitch to me especially with the temp you fermented at. I'd give it a stir and throw the extra yeast at it. Should get it done.

That's what he did. 

Will fix it IMO.

[Beer here now]

9 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Have you calibrated your hydrometer ?  Sounds a bit high but I would check it anyway. There are a fair amount of fermentables in there so it may finish a bit higher.

I would leave it as long as possible before bottling to be on the safe side as you can't let it sit for 3 months.

https://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Hydrometer

Start by measuring the specific gravity of distilled water. This should register as 1.000 on the hydrometer.

https://beerandbrewing.com/calibrating-your-hydrometer/

Thanks mate. I checked the hydrometer and appears to be accurate. The wort is still very sweet, so on both counts I feel the reading is about right. Might be bottling at midnight the night before lol

[Beer here now]

4 hours ago, kmar92 said:

Actually if there are a high amount of fermentables, by definition, they will ferment out and add ABV and not contribute to a higher than expected SG.

It sounds to me like the yeast has quit due to the original high SG of the wort. Add more yeast. This brew would probably have benefited from a starter to increase the yeast cell count.

Thanks kmar92, yeah that's what I thought, it should be lower if anything, rather than higher. I think you are right on the yeast quitting due to high SG. Can't blame it really, that's a lot of sugar to get through. I debated adding the dextrose, I don't normally like to add it to my beers but basing it off the coopers recipe so chucked it in. The yeast slurry was fresh and I actually added more than usual to account for the high SG. Hopefully the packet yeast will do the trick

[Beer here now]

2 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Hopefully the extra packets of kit yeast will help this along.  The highest FG that I bottled was 1.017 - No issues with bombs.  If the SG is still falling do not bottle.  If it stabilises at or below 1.025, I would bottle.  However, I would use half as much priming sugar.  That is in case the priming sugar kicks of the yeast to consume more than just the priming sugar.  I would also use PET bottles because they tend not to explode as much as rupture.  Still a mess, but pretty safe.

Thanks Shamus. Thanks heaps on the numbers, gives me a ballpark to at least feel a little more comfortable with. Great tip on the priming and PET, will do that I think. As you say, still a mess but better than a mess plus glass everywhere. 

[Beer here now]

1 hour ago, Greenyinthewestofsydney said:

How old was the slurry you used and how much of it. It sounds like an underpitch to me especially with the temp you fermented at. I'd give it a stir and throw the extra yeast at it. Should get it done.

I used a generous cup of slurry. I have been reusing this yeast (usually rinse it and store in fridge etc)  for quite a few brews now and normally no problems, each batch has generally been faster than the last. The temp is actually higher on this than what I normally run it at  I usually run in the 17-19 degree range and its goes along no probs. As per recipe I set it at 21, which I thought would be helpful given the high gravity. Would you suggest higher temp than this?

[Beer here now]

1 hour ago, Oldbloke said:

That's what he did. 

Will fix it IMO.

Thanks Oldbloke. Fingers crossed, feeling the time pressure lol. Dread the thought of having to tip it out. The last batch I did minus the dextrose turned out really good, so it will hurt if I have to tip this out.

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 hours ago, Beer here now said:

Thanks mate. I checked the hydrometer and appears to be accurate. The wort is still very sweet, so on both counts I feel the reading is about right. Might be bottling at midnight the night before lol

Well all the best with your brew anyway @Beer here now it looks like all areas of issues may have been addressed, just have to wait now & see what develops.

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, bottle it when you think it's ready.  And as you suggested, reduce the priming a bit for insurance. Say,,,10-20%. 

[BlackSands]

I've had a number stuck ferments the most recent being earlier this year.  Only two things have ever worked for me on these occasions: adding enzymes (amylase) and/or nutrient - nutrient being boiled dried (bread) yeast.   The stuck brew I had earlier this year I just added the dead yeast nutrient and surprisingly fermentation kicked back into gear very quickly... maybe as little as  an hour.  On that occasion nutrient seemed to be extrememly benficial. 

[Coopers DIY Beer Team]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:42 AM, BlackSands said:

adding enzymes (amylase) and/or nutrient - nutrient being boiled dried (bread) yeast.

If the extra sachets of brewer's yeast didn't get things moving, throwing a teaspoon of amylase at it will definitely do the job. If the Gravity's still dropping when you need to bottle, put it into PET and leave them where they can't make a mess if they leak.  At least you won't have broken glass to contend with when you get back.  Cheers!

PS The slurry yeast probably wasn't up to the job because it had been through one too many fermentations to take on such a high Gravity brew this time round. 

[Beer here now]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:12 AM, BlackSands said:

I've had a number stuck ferments the most recent being earlier this year.  Only two things have ever worked for me on these occasions: adding enzymes (amylase) and/or nutrient - nutrient being boiled dried (bread) yeast.   The stuck brew I had earlier this year I just added the dead yeast nutrient and surprisingly fermentation kicked back into gear very quickly... maybe as little as  an hour.  On that occasion nutrient seemed to be extrememly benficial. 

Thanks Blackman's, good thinking, I probably should have thought of that. Since adding the extra yeast it's come down to 1.027. Still a way to go but heading in the right direction. Might give that a crack I reckon. Thanks again

[Beer here now]

6 hours ago, Coopers DIY Beer Team said:

If the extra sachets of brewer's yeast didn't get things moving, throwing a teaspoon of amylase at it will definitely do the job. If the Gravity's still dropping when you need to bottle, put it into PET and leave them where they can't make a mess if they leak.  At least you won't have broken glass to contend with when you get back.  Cheers!

PS The slurry yeast probably wasn't up to the job because it had been through one too many fermentations to take on such a high Gravity brew this time round. 

Thanks heaps for the follow up Frank, that's what I call fantastic customer service, unreal! I do have some PET bottles, should be able to scrounge enough to make it work. Now to find a spot to put them where my wife won't kill me if they blow lol...

Yeah in hindsight it was probably a bit much of an ask to expect the slurry to work. It was going to be the last batch with the CCA yeast anyway, as I have gotten 7 batches out of my initial 2x tallies of commercial Pale Ale and thought I would start afresh when I'm back so as to not push my luxk too far. But the results have been consistently great to date with that yeast with no issues. I normally clean the yeast in between, this time it was just slurry. As you say, the high gravity was likely a factor, coupled with the lower cell count (even though I used a bit more than usual, I guess I didn't take account of the fact that a fair portion would be dead yeast cells). 

Anyway, fingers crossed, I might have a crack at the above and can hopefully have some great (unexploded) stout in a few months time. 

 

Thanks again, really appreciate your help

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Beer here now said:

fantastic customer service,

That's what Coopers & this great forum are all about.

[Beer here now]

Well the extra yeast seems to have been the ticket. Gravity has dropped from 1.027 to 1.015 in the last 2 days! Not bad at all. Looks like it will be in the bottle before I leave Tuesday. Thanks all

[kmar92]

Good news @Beer here now. As I thought your high gravity wort just needed a bit of a boost with some new yeast. High gravity wort can be a little poisonous to yeast unless you have a high cell count of the yeast, anyway it seems that the brew is on the right track now!

[Beer here now]

Thanks kmar92. Much relieved. Will be interesting to see where it stops, guessing it won't drop much more. Probably strong enough tbh. Will try sit on it til winter.

[Beer here now]

Now my next hope is that my hops are ready before I leave but unfortunately I don't think they will be. Thought I'd give them a try, seem to be going well, though summer in Townsville might sort the out lol

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 hours ago, Beer here now said:

Now my next hope is that my hops are ready before I leave but unfortunately I don't think they will be. Thought I'd give them a try, seem to be going well, though summer in Townsville might sort the out lol

They look healthy enough, you may have to buy a couple km's of shade cloth 

[Beer here now]

1 hour ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

They look healthy enough, you may have to buy a couple km's of shade cloth 

Yeah I might lol. Not sure they will like the Wet either when it starts... that pic is actually from a couple of weeks ago, they have filled out a lot since and got heaps of cones now. Only planted the rhizome in August, so happy with the growth rate so far.  Fingers crossed it survives the summer and I can keep growing them, would be cool to have at least one batch of beer made with my own hops. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

43 minutes ago, Beer here now said:

Yeah I might lol. Not sure they will like the Wet either when it starts... that pic is actually from a couple of weeks ago, they have filled out a lot since and got heaps of cones now. Only planted the rhizome in August, so happy with the growth rate so far.  Fingers crossed it survives the summer and I can keep growing them, would be cool to have at least one batch of beer made with my own hops. 

I have never grown hops, a mate of mine does, in fact I used 50gm of Victoria's Secret in my current Coopers Draught.

I live down by the sea, Glenelg SA so I probably could try a few if I can find the right place, I am not sure how they would go with the sea breezes.