Butterscotch Lager - DOH!

[jamiek86]

A lager at ale temps is called a steam ale I have done one at 18 and 25 degrees. the one at 18 was a lot better than one at 25 degrees but in saying that was better than an ale at 30 degrees. still I think my best lager yet was brewed at 15 degrees over ones at 12 but can't say exactly why. It was before my brew book where I used small pieces of paper and bottled now I keg. too many variables so I now stick with 12 degrees and pitch as low as possible when use slurry. start it little warmer with fresh packs I want to take off well.

Edited July 21, 2021 by jamiek86

[iBooz2]

16 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Ah, here is an article that talks about it. https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Fermenting_Lagers

That article was an interesting read, thanks for that Christina.

[iBooz2]

On 7/19/2021 at 9:02 PM, jamiek86 said:

@iBooz2 is that 21 days in fermenter or between pitch to keg and gas? I'm finding I'm doing ddocel rest in less than week if going by gravity. 3 days if using repitched slurry that takes off like rocket. maby I need to slow it down a bit.

Yes my schedule is 21 days from pitch to keg plus an 18 hr fast carb at 40 psi at 2 C then disconnect the gas and let the keg sit for about another day or two maintaining the 2 C.  Then hook the gas back up to it at about 10 psi (or whatever serving pressure my regulator is set for at that time) and leave it there at 2 C for about 4 weeks.  I do sneak a sample taste or two during that 4 weeks but find it to be a clearer and better lager beer after 4 weeks in the keg.

[MitchBastard]

Ahaha Cheers @Graubart 

 

Not really sure I can add anything to this that hasn’t been stated…..an initial thought I had early in this thread was that the beers have been bottle conditioned…. Was the butter scotch taste there during primary ferment before bottling? Or did it come about afterward? 
 

An under pitch early on could be the culprit. Not necessarily stress related as such but lower yeast count could mean a longer clean up task and or a limited clean up abilities. Maybe. 
 

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, MitchBastard said:

Ahaha Cheers @Graubart 

 

Not really sure I can add anything to this that hasn’t been stated…..an initial thought I had early in this thread was that the beers have been bottle conditioned…. Was the butter scotch taste there during primary ferment before bottling? Or did it come about afterward? 
 

An under pitch early on could be the culprit. Not necessarily stress related as such but lower yeast count could mean a longer clean up task and or a limited clean up abilities. Maybe. 
 

Ah, thanks Mitch, Had a couple of sips during the primary and it was all good Butterscotch def came after the D-rest I'm thinking. 

[Tricky Micky]

6 hours ago, Graubart said:

Hey there Mick

Sad to hear of your troubles mate but will be good to nail it

I dunno whether holding at 18 for 24 is that bad... I reckon you could brew a Lager/Helles w Dubbya at 18 for the whole ferment with DiA at 23... 

Have you tried brewing a Lager w Dubbya at 18 for the whole ferment with a patch warmer for DiA?

Was it a crappy batch of yeast?

Of course it is DiA

I am surprised as I have done all sorts of "bad" non-standard things to Dubbya Lager Brews and they have been just fine

I guess I subscribe to the general team consensus - more time for DiA Rest was probably warranted

And I say up to 21-22 and even 23 is fine for a DiA Rest... and hold it there for a bit... I think @ChristinaS1 and @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey might have mentioned more time for the DiA-Rest...

The other thing is what I learned from @Otto Von Blotto Kelsey - and Palmer - is the Yeast Cleanup - so don't Crash it - take it down 2 deg or say per day over whatever time it takes from 20 deg down to 3.... to give the yeast time to cleanup... the DiA rest shoulda nailed the butterscotch in the warmer phase... but I reckon that the slow cool down Yeast Clean-up phase is important for Lager/Pils yeast cleanup too...  just a thought

The ol' Dubbya is such a good yeast usually.... hey @MitchBastard Mitchie ; )  Any thoughts from you award winning brewer?  ; )

Good luck with it mate @Mickep Mick... I think over time it may dissipated anyway?

Too kind GB, thanks for the feedback mate. Never tried cooking the lagers at 18 deg,  Done pseudo lagers fermenting ale yeast at lager temps so can't see why I can't give that a crack. I think I need to refine that D-rest at near the end of the ferment. Cheers GB. 

[Tricky Micky]

3 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

19 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Ah, here is an article that talks about it. https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Fermenting_Lagers

Thanks for this ChristinaS1 really interesting read much thanks.

[MitchBastard]

14 hours ago, Mickep said:

Ah, thanks Mitch, Had a couple of sips during the primary and it was all good Butterscotch def came after the D-rest I'm thinking. 

Hmmm interesting….. if you tasted upon bottling and it was fine, I would be looking at your bottle storage conditions. Being winter, ambient temps arnt getting up there as easy. Given that bottle carbonation is essentially another ferment, all those compounds will reform. When I was bottling, I would treat it like a fermenting brew in terms of temp when bottle condition. 
 

it may be that they just need a bit of time at 18+….

 

saying that though, an under pitch early on could be part of the culprit in terms of available yeast. Maybe it just can’t clean up in the bottle as there’s not enough???

 

just a stab there mate

[Pezzza]

18 hours ago, Mickep said:

Never tried cooking the lagers at 18 deg, 

Some don't like 'im but this is worth a read I reckon... 

https://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/