Carbonating, storing and serving

[Frankie4Fingers]

Hi all

I am fermenting my first extract kit which is the Laneway Latte Stout and have a couple of q's about what others who keg do post ferment.  I have been brewing FWK's for a bit and when finishing the ferment I have always cold crashed for a couple of days and then kegged, carbonated via a CO2 cylinder and either stored in the fridge or served.  Because of this I have never bothered with priming using sugar.

In the ROTM were the carbonation drops, how many people use them to prime?  And does anyone use them to prime in a keg or do people avoid them and use granulated sugar instead?

I watched the how to video on the forum and saw that they were storing the beer in a cupboard at room temperature.  I always thought that once fermented and transferred to the keg that the beer should be kept cold?  Or can it be stored at room temperature if you are priming within the keg?  If this is the case then how long can it be kept at room temperature before it should really be chilled?

Lots of q's having never primed with sugar and so it would be good to know what the majority do and what is deemed "right"thing.

One last q around pressure fermenting for those that may know.  I have pressure fermented some of the FWK's with good success but again have always popped the keg straight into the fridge.  Can you keep a keg that doesn't require priming at room temperature and if so does anyone know for how long? 

Any insight would be great.

[Lab Cat]

36 minutes ago, Frankie4Fingers said:

I watched the how to video on the forum and saw that they were storing the beer in a cupboard at room temperature.  I always thought that once fermented and transferred to the keg that the beer should be kept cold? 

I think priming is pretty much a bottling procedure, not relevant for kegging. Coopers instructions never include kegging requirements.

With bottling, you need them to be at or above 18c for the natural carbonation from the yeast and carb drops (or sugar to) happen. With kegs, you're forcing the carbonation with Co2, so you wouldn't add carb drops, AFAIK. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Lab Cat

[Journeyman]

59 minutes ago, Frankie4Fingers said:

Or can it be stored at room temperature if you are priming within the keg?  If this is the case then how long can it be kept at room temperature before it should really be chilled?

I'm about to start an experiment with a primed keg and normal serving pressure-carbed keg. (see 'Keg the Prime vs Keg the Gas' thread.

Yes you can prime kegs with sugar - they will need the same thing as bottles, 2 weeks at 18° or above so the yeast wakes up (if CC'd) and does its thing. There is little info I could find about what to do though, so my plan is to then stick it in the fridge, gas it up to serving pressure, leave it a day then try it. Given I don't know what pressure the sugar will add to the keg I will burp it before putting it on gas, just so I don't get a gusher.

As for how long a keg can be left at room temps? If properly sanitised, purged with CO2 and sealed, I can't see why it couldn't be weeks. In a cool environment (say under the house/in a cellar, maybe longer. If it's primed it would still need the first couple of weeks at ferment temps though.

Also I don't think widely varying temps would be a good thing for the beer.

[ben 10]

1 hour ago, Frankie4Fingers said:

I always thought that once fermented and transferred to the keg that the beer should be kept cold?  Or can it be stored at room temperature if you are priming within the keg?  If this is the case then how long can it be kept at room temperature before it should really be chilled?

Length of strings and stuff....

Darker, malty beers store well at room temperature, it helps them "age" and definitely works well.

[The Captain!!]

Do you know why they call him Frankie 4 Fingers??

Beers age twice as fast every 10 degrees C that they are stored at. 
 

So If a beer lasts 12 months at 1 degree, at 10c Itll last 6 months. 20c 3 months. 

[Pale Man]

18 minutes ago, The Captain!! said:

Do you know why they call him Frankie 4 Fingers??

Beers age twice as fast every 10 degrees C that they are stored at. 
 

So If a beer lasts 12 months at 1 degree, at 10c Itll last 6 months. 20c 3 months. 

A beer stored at 20C is going to last way longer than 3 months. ( unless youre meaning kegged beer, which i have no idea )

[Frankie4Fingers]

3 hours ago, Lab Cat said:

I think priming is pretty much a bottling procedure, not relevant for kegging. Coopers instructions never include kegging requirements.

With bottling, you need them to be at or above 18c for the natural carbonation from the yeast and carb drops (or sugar to) happen. With kegs, you're forcing the carbonation with Co2, so you wouldn't add carb drops, AFAIK. 

Ah right, that makes sense.

[Frankie4Fingers]

2 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I'm about to start an experiment with a primed keg and normal serving pressure-carbed keg. (see 'Keg the Prime vs Keg the Gas' thread.

Yes you can prime kegs with sugar - they will need the same thing as bottles, 2 weeks at 18° or above so the yeast wakes up (if CC'd) and does its thing. There is little info I could find about what to do though, so my plan is to then stick it in the fridge, gas it up to serving pressure, leave it a day then try it. Given I don't know what pressure the sugar will add to the keg I will burp it before putting it on gas, just so I don't get a gusher.

As for how long a keg can be left at room temps? If properly sanitised, purged with CO2 and sealed, I can't see why it couldn't be weeks. In a cool environment (say under the house/in a cellar, maybe longer. If it's primed it would still need the first couple of weeks at ferment temps though.

Also I don't think widely varying temps would be a good thing for the beer.

I have been looking at that thread already which is what sort of prompted this post?  I have always CC'd prior to transferring which primarily has been as a result of using a fermentasaurus as the FV.  The collection bottle works great for the yeast flocculation so its been a habit to date.  I didn't realise that the priming needed to be done at ferment temps so that's good to know.

[Frankie4Fingers]

1 hour ago, The Captain!! said:

Do you know why they call him Frankie 4 Fingers??

Beers age twice as fast every 10 degrees C that they are stored at. 
 

So If a beer lasts 12 months at 1 degree, at 10c Itll last 6 months. 20c 3 months. 

Didn't know that, good info.

[The Captain!!]

1 hour ago, Pale Man said:

A beer stored at 20C is going to last way longer than 3 months. ( unless youre meaning kegged beer, which i have no idea )

That’s not what I’m saying. 
let’s go with this equation then.

If a beer lasts 10 years at 1c, it’ll last 5 years at 10c, 2.5 years at 20c

[Journeyman]

38 minutes ago, Frankie4Fingers said:

I didn't realise that the priming needed to be done at ferment temps so that's good to know.

Most people CC first I think, then bottle and prime. Even with bulk priming I would CC the brew and use finings and THEN transfer and bottle and then let them come back up to temp. The priming doesn't need to be at ferment temps, but the conditioning can't happen unless the brew IS at ferment temps. i.e. if it stays cold, very flat beer results because the yeast never woke up.