Yeast Slurry Question

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

I've just emptied a brew from my FV & would like to re-use the yeast that remains at the bottom for another brew. I've never re-used yeast slurry before, so I was just wondering, if I collect some & place it in a sanitised jar & refrigerate it, would it be viable to use at a later date.

 

I don't plan to rinse it (wash it), as I don't have enough jars or the time right now.

 

If this is possible, how much should I collect?

 

Any factual advice would be appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[ben 10]

I don't have any facts regarding how long it will last.

 

I brewed a Better Red Than Dead and bottled it. When I was done I swirled the crap left in the bottom and bottled a full bottle of that.

Dumped it into an ESVA and it took off rather well.

 

I would think it will remain viable for sometime. As for how much you need I don't know.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Yes.

 

You should use it within 1-2 weeks or make a starter. 250ml of thick slurry would probably be lots for an average gravity, 21 L brew.

[Beerlust]

Thanks Ben & Skookum.

 

Much appreciated.

 

I'll give it a good stir & pour it off into a jar for use in a brew in the next few weeks.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Nick]

What about bottling and then immediately starting another brew without removing the trub or sanitizing the FV. I've often thought about doing this, especially if making a beer that is similar to the one just bottled?

[PhilboBaggins]

I've never pitched onto the cake but have used slurry without rinsing several times. It goes mental, as a jar of slurry is a LOT of yeast.

 

I say go for it.

[JohnE9]

Pitching onto the cake goes off quicker than a bride's panties.

[BradP4]

I was only just thinking of this tonight, thanks for the post and the replys, I'm going to give something like this a crack when the pale ale I just started tonight finishes.

 

Could you keep the yeast alive by feeding it some dextrose maybe?

 

 

[Beerlust]

Hi Brad.

 

I was only just thinking of this tonight' date=' thanks for the post and the replys, I'm going to give something like this a crack when the pale ale I just started tonight finishes.

 

Could you keep the yeast alive by feeding it some dextrose maybe?[/quote']

 

The yeast won't die Brad. After fermentation, it just transitions into a dormant state. The key is to keep it in a sterile environment until you wish to use it again.

 

Some of the guys are throwing a fresh brew straight onto that yeast cake while still in the fermenter on the same day after they've bottled or kegged the former brew. I wish to use the yeast from this cake for a later date, so I need to transfer it into some containers, while making sure I don't contaminate the yeast, & also separate as much of it as I can from the original beer & trub as I can. This process is known as "yeast rinsing" or "yeast washing".

 

The need to bring the yeast back into contact with fermentable sugars such as dextrose is generally only required, when you are actually ready to begin making another batch of beer, or in some cases brewers like to double the volume of yeast cells they have from this slurry amount, then split it, & use one half for a brew, & retain the other half back in the fridge for use at a later date.

 

I just realised I can actually rinse this yeast slurry. I have 2 big 1.5-2 litre snap lock preservative jars. I just have to do it more slowly. So I'll do one rinse a day for 2-3 days until I'm happy I've separated enough of the yeast from the old beer & trub.

 

Thanks again for the input guys.

 

Anthony.

[Canadian Eh!L]

What about bottling and then immediately starting another brew without removing the trub or sanitizing the FV. I've often thought about doing this' date=' especially if making a beer that is similar to the one just bottled?[/quote']

Hey Nick,

 

I do this very thing all the time with out a problem. I would make sure you have enough head space in your FV for a volcano of a ferment as Phil mentioned. I find it's the safest way to reuse yeast without risking infection. Having said that I do use a number of ways to reuse yeast. I sometimes wash and reuse at a later date or as phil suggested, take jar full of slurry and pitch it into the next (either the same day or a couple of days later). After a week or two you'll need to make a starter which is no big deal.

 

I try to get 3-5 batches of beer out of 1 original yeast culture.

 

You should be planning your brews a few in advance to be most efficient with you yeast management (ie Multiple brews of the same style back to back or different style that the yeast variety compliments). This is something I am doing all the time. I brew in batches. I like to call them runs. This means I order a large amount of ingredients with a few varieties of hops, malts and yeasts with multiple beers in mind. I might not have actually designed the recipe yet but I am brainstorming about it by this time. Always trying to being efficient with your raw materials, most importantly your yeast as this is your one living (magic) ingredient.

[LloydB]

So can someone suggest how does one go about washing/rinsing the slurry? I don't really know why but I would like to give it a try reusing it.

[Nick]

Thanks Chad and the other contributors to the thread. I have been making English style ales and IPA's and have another 2 planned. I am confident, based on the information in this thread that starting another brew directly on the trub/cake will not cause any issues. The only thing I am concerned about is infection caused through not cleaning the crud that is left behind by the krausen. Should I clean this first or just leave it? From the time it is exposed when bottling until the time I start another brew, will be about an hour or so. Could infection start here, the ambient temps are still around 30 deg, so the environment is rife for bacteria.

[Beerlust]

What about bottling and then immediately starting another brew without removing the trub or sanitizing the FV. I've often thought about doing this' date=' especially if making a beer that is similar to the one just bottled?[/quote']

Hey Nick,

 

I do this very thing all the time with out a problem. I would make sure you have enough head space in your FV for a volcano of a ferment as Phil mentioned. I find it's the safest way to reuse yeast without risking infection. Having said that I do use a number of ways to reuse yeast. I sometimes wash and reuse at a later date or as phil suggested, take jar full of slurry and pitch it into the next (either the same day or a couple of days later). After a week or two you'll need to make a starter which is no big deal.

 

I try to get 3-5 batches of beer out of 1 original yeast culture.

 

You should be planning your brews a few in advance to be most efficient with you yeast management (ie Multiple brews of the same style back to back or different style that the yeast variety compliments). This is something I am doing all the time. I brew in batches. I like to call them runs. This means I order a large amount of ingredients with a few varieties of hops, malts and yeasts with multiple beers in mind. I might not have actually designed the recipe yet but I am brainstorming about it by this time. Always trying to being efficient with your raw materials, most importantly your yeast as this is your one living (magic) ingredient.

+1

 

Excellent advice & well said.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Beerlust]

Hi LloydB.

So can someone suggest how does one go about washing/rinsing the slurry? I don't really know why but I would like to give it a try reusing it.

The following link is regarded as one of the most concise instructional pictorials on any of the AUS brewing forums.

 

Wolfy's Rinsing Yeast (In Pictures)

 

Beyond that' date=' YouTube have plenty of video tutorials on the subject, though I did find the way quite a number of them conveyed the process, to be a little confusing for a novice to understand & follow.

 

Or maybe it was just me? [img']innocent[/img]

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[BradP4]

Thanks Again Anthony,

 

The link you gave looks like good info.

I was also wondering about how to "step up" the yeast and "make a starter"

I found this thread which may be of use to others: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/1434-starting-wyeast/

 

Cheers - Brad

[Hairy]

Thanks Again Anthony' date='

 

The link you gave looks like good info.

I was also wondering about how to "step up" the yeast and "make a starter"

I found this thread which may be of use to others: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/1434-starting-wyeast/

 

Cheers - Brad[/quote']

I found this page useful when I first started making yeast starters. It is simple to follow:

 

Billy Brew - Yeast Starters

 

You should be planning your brews a few in advance to be most efficient with you yeast management (ie Multiple brews of the same style back to back or different style that the yeast variety compliments). This is something I am doing all the time. I brew in batches. I like to call them runs. This means I order a large amount of ingredients with a few varieties of hops' date=' malts and yeasts with multiple beers in mind. I might not have actually designed the recipe yet but I am brainstorming about it by this time. Always trying to being efficient with your raw materials, most importantly your yeast as this is your one living (magic) ingredient.[/quote']

You dead set sound like a Management Accountant. Is the Lumberjack thing just a ruse to put us off?

 

Its good advice for those looking at cutting costs and not having to make 'left-overs' beers at the end.

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

Firstly, I've really appreciated all the input given in this thread. It's all been very helpful.

 

Bare with some of my comments, I am a noob at this whole yeast rinsing game. Here's how I went about collecting & then rinsing my slurry...

 

Before kegging my Amber Ale, I cold conditioned the brew in the fermenter over night to compact the trub. Later the next day I transferred the bulk of the beer into a keg. What remained behind in the fermenter was a little beer & the yeast/hop & trub matter. I poured off a good portion of the excess beer liquid to leave just a slurry.

 

I sterilized one of my 1.75L preservative jars in boiling water & then approx. half filled, 2/3 filled this jar with the boiled water & placed in my fridge for 30 mins to bring the temperature of the water in the jar down to between 25-30°C. Due to the volume of water in this jar, after 30mins it was still in the high 40's so I placed it in the freezer for 10-15mins.

 

Once it was down to the temperature I wanted, I poured this into the fermenter, & swirled the fermenter to integrate all the slurry with the cooled boiled water. Once integrated well, I poured this back into the preservative jar, & placed it in my fridge, where it stayed for a number of days. In this time, just like when you cold condition before bottling/kegging, it compacts the solids & separates most of it from the liquid.

 

After almost a week, I decided to rinse the yeast to separate it from the trub. I took this jar out of the fridge & let it sit for a good hour or so to bring it up to room temperature. I then grabbed my other preservative jar & sanitized that in boiling water & followed the exact procedure listed above with what I did with the first jar about cooling boiled water etc..etc.

 

I grabbed the first jar containing all the yeast/hop matter/trub & diluted beer, & again poured off as much of the diluted beer as I could before it got very close to the trub. I added the cooled boiled water to this jar, stirred & this time let sit on my kitchen bench & monitored. If I'm understanding this procedure right, the trub & hop matter will settle to the bottom first, whereas the yeast will take longer to do so. So if you monitor the jar for a period of time & when you believe a good whack of the trub has settled out, the yeast you want is still suspended in the liquid for the most part. At this point you pour off the liquid portion into another sterilized jar to where you are just above the settled trub at the bottom.

 

 

The jar on the left contains the rinsed slurry I took directly from the fermenter. You can clearly see three layers. The top being yeast (I believe?), The middle clearly looks like hop matter to me, & the bottom layer being trub. The jar on the right holds an obvious portion of yeast (at the bottom) separated from the hop matter & trub contained in the jar on the left. The liquid in both jars is again a combination of cooled boiled water & diluted beer still present from the original amber ale brew.

 

For those that re-use yeast, I would appreciate some advice on best practices on re-introducing this yeast into a new brew, & given that these jars hold about 1.75L, how much yeast do you believe I have harvested in that right-hand jar? Is that a large, average, small amount? (I'm guessing large!) Enough for one brew, two brews? Would I require a starter with this amount of harvested yeast? Can I step it up & split it?

 

All advice welcomed.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Curly]

G'day Anthony,

I hope I'm not going to be ostracised for suggesting this but there is a wealth of information (with photo's) on another homebrew forum called Oliver and Geoffs homebrew and beer.

I haven't tried this process yet, still procrastinating, but when I started brewing back in 1984 an old hand (retired professional brewer from C.U.B) told me it was the way to go.

Best Regards,

Curly.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey Lusty

Good job on your method of rinsing. From the picture it looks like you were able to collect a ton of yeast. I can't tell you how much you might have there but it's most likely enough to pitch directly into another 21L batch. If you want to know much (by volume) you have simply take a jar of similar size, put a piece of masking tape on the side and add 100ml of water at a time, marking each increment. You can then measure the amount of yeast you have in your jar by placing the two jars side by side. Use Mr Malty to calculate how much yeast you might need for a given brew.

 

If I were you I'd always make a starter.

[Beerlust]

Hey Lusty

Good job on your method of rinsing. From the picture it looks like you were able to collect a ton of yeast. I can't tell you how much you might have there but it's most likely enough to pitch directly into another 21L batch. If you want to know much (by volume) you have simply take a jar of similar size' date=' put a piece of masking tape on the side and add 100ml of water at a time, marking each increment. You can then measure the amount of yeast you have in your jar by placing the two jars side by side. Use Mr Malty to calculate how much yeast you might need for a given brew.

 

If I were you I'd always make a starter. [/quote']

 

Thanks Skookum, I forgot about Mr. Malty. Quantity is measured in millilitres. Your guide to gauging how many millilitres you've harvested is a good one Chad. The smaller the jar the better, as you'll be able to gain a more accurate measurement. Thanks.

 

When using the Mr. Malty calculator, an interesting point I noted about pitching from slurry as opposed to using a fresh packaged liquid yeast, is that there is no mention of requiring a starter for re-using yeast slurry. Provided you have collected the necessary amount of yeast from the slurry required to ferment out the volume & gravity of your next brew, it doesn't appear necessary.

 

That makes logical sense to me too. Yeast collected from slurry has already gone through a fermentation. Thus its cell count/volume has already increased from what was originally pitched yes?

 

A packaged liquid yeast has not gone through a fermentation, so to me there is a massive difference in cell count/volume of yeast between this & the slurry yeast. One only has to read the posts by those that use a fresh yeast cake for their next brew. Most report that the brew takes off like a rocket!

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Magnaman]

G'day, I find this topic very interesting and very timely to me, I have just recently put on a Coopers Sparkling brew using re-cultured Coopers yeast from 6 stubbies of Pale Ale, that being said, now I find after following this topic that if all goes well a wash of the resulting turb or at least a collection and re pitch into the following brew may be advantageous?

 

any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks'

 

cheers

[Beerlust]

...I have just recently put on a Coopers Sparkling brew using re-cultured Coopers yeast from 6 stubbies of Pale Ale' date=' that being said, now I find after following this topic that if all goes well a wash of the resulting turb or at least a collection and re pitch into the following brew may be advantageous? [img']unsure[/img]

 

any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks'

Absolutely.

 

I've read of brewers who will repeat this process up to 5-6 more times with the same yeast from each successive brew before they revert back to a new fresh batch of yeast. Apparently re-using the same yeast beyond 5-6 brews has increased risks of altering its characteristic flavour profile & performance etc.

 

I also noticed in PB2's procedure for re-activating the CCA yeast from the bottle, he makes mention of higher alcohol based beers as having some lower gaining/yielding affect for harvesting sufficient yeast numbers or their viability? So that may also have some bearing on the effectiveness of re-using slurry over multiple brews. I admit I don't have any knowledge on that one.

 

Also recognize that the yeast you will harvest & use from your Sparkling Ale brew will have been brewed with twice. Once from the commercial brew in the stubbies, & again in your Sparkling Ale brew. So your next use of it would actually be the third usage of it. I think that classes it as a third generation yeast?

 

I've re-activated the CCA quite a few times, & will have to give the slurry a go next time I brew with it.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Hairy]

Also recognize that the yeast you will harvest & use from your Sparkling Ale brew will have been brewed with twice. Once from the commercial brew in the stubbies' date=' & again in your Sparkling Ale brew. So your next use of it would actually be the third usage of it. I think that classes it as a third generation yeast? [img']unsure[/img]

I thought that coopers ales are filtered and then re-seeded with fresh yeast for secondary fermentation in the bottle. So the first gen yeast you speak of have only done a tiny bit of work.

[Beerlust]

Hi Hairy.

Also recognize that the yeast you will harvest & use from your Sparkling Ale brew will have been brewed with twice. Once from the commercial brew in the stubbies' date=' & again in your Sparkling Ale brew. So your next use of it would actually be the third usage of it. I think that classes it as a third generation yeast? [img']unsure[/img]

I thought that coopers ales are filtered and then re-seeded with fresh yeast for secondary fermentation in the bottle. So the first gen yeast you speak of have only done a tiny bit of work.

Fair call.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[ben 10]

bottle. So the first gen yeast you speak of have only done a tiny bit of work.

 

How do you define first generation?

This yeast is perahps a couple of hundred years old.

What makes it fresh?