King Ruddager Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Hi all, just had my first bottle-cleaning adventure. I've been rinsing the bottles thoroughly (3 times) directly after use and storing them in the original box, then another time just before sanitising. To sanitise I used "Beer Essentials" no-rinse sanitiser because that appealed to me for some reason. Firstly, my method why not: I put about 250mL of solution in a bottle, shook it around, drained it into another bottle and then put the sanitised one upside-down in a box on top of a tea towel. After doing 7 or 8 bottles I tipped out the solution and used a fresh lot on the next group of bottles. Nothing wrong with that I hope? Anyway, they're all currently draining upside-down in a box and I have a brew ready to bottle, so my main question is - how long after using the no-rinse sanitiser can I use the bottles? Is it ok to use them straight away, do I have to wait for them to dry completely, do I need to leave it at least a day or is the truth somewhere inbetween? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I am not familiar with the sanitiser you are using. However, I use Starsan and that only requires a 30 second contact time. I leave for around a minute or so. With Starsan there is no need to wait for it to dry. I just tip the bottles out, give them a little shake, and Robert's your Mother's brother [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 +1 to Star San, I used to use a no rinse sanitizer copper tun however i had the odd infected bottle since then i have used star san for a few of my batches and so far the beers taste even better and all the bottles are consistent all good I recommend Star San to everyone myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 On a related note, how long should I sanitise the fermenter (using the Coopers sanitiser) for? I've just about bottled the last one and I'm wondering if there's time to get the next one going tonight ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The Coopers sanitiser is more a cleaner/soaker (and the same as Napisan...). I dissolve about 4 capfuls in about 1 litre warm water out of the tap in the fermenter (give it a swirl to dissolve it) then top up as high as it will go with cold water. Can throw in some of your other stuff (stirring spoon etc) to clean at the same time. Then I leave it overnight. Drain it next morning through the tap. Tip out the dregs. Leave it standing upside down on a sink or something to dry out. Once it's dry, and about half an hour before brewing, I give it a good spray down with star san (well, brewers choice brew san which is essentially the same stuff), then away I go. Don't forget to spray your tap bits and the spoon too. Anything that'll touch anything going in your brew. So if you haven't given it a soak yet, I'd probably leave it til tomorrow to put a brew on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The Coopers sanitiser is more a cleaner/soaker (and the same as Napisan...). Not quite right here. The Coopers Sodium Perc: Cleaner with some sanitising properties and is far superior than nappisan as it's pure sodium percabonate, nappisan's generally contain, give or take, 30% Pure Sodium Perc and the rest is detergents [sick] and other such foul things I dont want in the beer. I organised a bulk buy a while ago and ended up with just over half a Ton of pure sodium perc in the cellar for a while [roll] I'm slowly working my way through a 25kg bag of it [whistling Its amazing stuff and is fully neutralised by Starsan - Does not require rinsing... but I do anyway and then starsan again [ninja] Coopers Sodium Met: Is a caustic cleaner and requires rinsing. [wink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 So ... how long does it need to soak for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The Coopers sanitiser is more a cleaner/soaker (and the same as Napisan...). Not quite right here. The Coopers Sodium Perc: Cleaner with some sanitising properties and is far superior than nappisan as it's pure sodium percabonate, nappisan's generally contain, give or take, 30% Pure Sodium Perc and the rest is detergents [sick] and other such foul things I dont want in the beer. True. I got an Aldi brand napisan equivalent with no detergent or fragrance. Its ingredients is sodium percarbonate. Nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 and for those with an interest in all of this, Sodim Percarbonate is %80 Sodium cabonate and 20% Hydrogen peroxide. (or %75 - %25 something like that anyway[unsure].. cant remember.) Both break down into soda ash and water respectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So ... how long does it need to soak for? Like I said, I soak overnight. 8-10 hours. No idea if it needs to be that long. And yes as Yob says, give it a really good rinse after (hence the need for a no-rinse sanitiser as well, because unless you're using fully sterile water in a sterile room to rinse, you're introducing nasties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I plan on buy some StarSan just as soon as I get enough spare cash to. Will be changing jobs soon though so that will be easier. At the moment I'm just cleaning with a sodium perc cleaner and rinsing 400 times before putting anything in it. So far been lucky[lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I just got Brew San from my LHBS. Basically the same thing. Before that I was just using Milton steriliser tablets/solution that we used on the kids' bottles when they were babies. Figure if it's safe for that then it's safe for beer! And had no dramas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I plan on buy some StarSan just as soon as I get enough spare cash to. Will be changing jobs soon though so that will be easier. At the moment I'm just cleaning with a sodium perc cleaner and rinsing 400 times before putting anything in it. So far been lucky[lol] You can get Starsan for $10. I'd rather spend $10 than dicing the odds with an infection due to not having it. If you get an infection it will cost more than $10 in the loss. Your choice though [pinched] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I use household bleach to sanitise my bottles. After years of brewing I have had one infected bottle. It fortunately was a PET and so did not explode, but it was like a geyser when I opened it. I find that bleach will kill anything. It is important that each bottle is thoroughly rinsed however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamB8 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'd rather spend $10 Starsan works out cheaper, I sanitise approximately 100 brews from a $20 bottle (FV, Keg, cube, accessories and 4 bottles) 30ml of the stuff sanitizes multiple brews (around 6), as long as the stuff your sanitizing is clean you can pour it back into the original container you made it up in. I have an FV full of the stuff and dunk my bottles, tubing ect ect in it, I also use the FV tap to fill other FV's and kegs, when Im done I pour it back into the original FV. I test my starsan with litmus papers and make a new batch when the PH gets to 3 as per the instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Yeah, when I do buy it I'm gonna get the litre bottle so I don't have to buy it again for years. It might sound crazy but even $10 is a stretch at the moment, it's a complicated situation that I won't crap on with but it will all be over soon thank god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'd rather spend $10 Starsan works out cheaper, I sanitise approximately 100 brews from a $20 bottle (FV, Keg, cube, accessories and 4 bottles) 30ml of the stuff sanitizes multiple brews (around 6), as long as the stuff your sanitizing is clean you can pour it back into the original container you made it up in. I have an FV full of the stuff and dunk my bottles, tubing ect ect in it, I also use the FV tap to fill other FV's and kegs, when Im done I pour it back into the original FV. I test my starsan with litmus papers and make a new batch when the PH gets to 3 as per the instructions *Cough Cough*... that IS Starsan. Check the link I provided as it is the cheapest bottle retail. i know about Starsan, I am a user too. I paid $35 for a bottle about 2 years ago, and use it on everything, yet I have barely necked it. I wouldn't have got so much if I knew then what I do now [joyful] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamB8 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 that IS Starsan I know mate, a case of my bad use of the quote function confusing you [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 *Cough Cough*... that IS Starsan Bill, you should see someone about that cough. You know it's bad when it starts interupting your typing. Plus, I agree wholeheartedly with the Starsan endorsement. Yeah' date=' when I do buy it I'm gonna get the litre bottle so I don't have to buy it again for years[/quote'] The smaller bottle will last you for years. The large bottle will allow you to take some with you into the afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Haha, I'm only 25.. still got potentially 50 or 60 years of brewing left yet[biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Star san is great I bought a 1 liter bottle for around $30 i made up some in bulk but so far out of several brews i barely touched the big bottle compared to the other sanitizer i used to use plus I like the foaming action I also heard not sure if this is true but star san is like a yeast nutrient too like the residual foam that is left behind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 correct, Starsan breas down to Yeast Nutrient and is fully discussed in this PODCAST on the Brewing Network. (Starts at about 10 mins... the first 10 mins they just waffle on) I must have listened to this one a dozen times at least. As a matter of fact Im going to listen to it again now. Just for the hell of it. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne (Captain Yobbo) Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Cheers Yob for letting me know its now a myth and also thanks for the podcast link. [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Cheers Yob for letting me know its now a myth and also thanks for the podcast link. [biggrin] I assume you mean... Cheers Yob for letting me know its not a myth and also thanks for the podcast link. [biggrin] [rightful] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gash Slugg Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 There is in this forum and many other forums some extremely misleading comments about plain old Sodium Metabisulfite it not only is cheap, but is also effective at sanitising, but the thing everybody gets wrong in the home brew community is that it is safe to use as a NO RINSE sanitiser, it is actually added to food stuffs as well as wine etc as a preservative, and was commonly, almost always, used in commercial breweries, times are changing and most use steam these days.. The 'beer school' I attended even washed their filter in it and didn't rinse it before we filled kegs! You do need to be a little careful because it does have a taste and smell, but as long as things are drained there is no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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